Topic: [ANN] Ħ [HODL] 5% Interest. No Staking Req. Term Deposits 10%. Solo Mining. - page 143. (Read 472950 times)

good. more hodls for me then.
 

Hi there,

First of all I would like to thank @FreeTrade for an amazing job and innovation.
Usually I am more a forums reader than writer but here, because the whole idea of HOdlcoin is very interesting and fresh, I would like to speak up little bit.

For all of us who are so scared and dissapointed with upcoming hard fork, I just want to say that:
Indeed coin is still on the early stage and understanding it looking only by prism of bitcoin can be bit tricky.

Newly mined blocks are going to be Hodled for a year, but you still can have a frequent income of free 50 HODL not doing anything.

I am personally allergic to people who are just expecting and wanting stuff but not giving anything to the community - that's in general.
...so in my understanding, if you are interested in HOdlcoin, you are also up to invest some money to support the idea:

ATM:
HODL daily rate = 0.34%
0.1412 BTC = 7400 HODL = $90 (make it $45 or $180, whatever floats your boat!)
7400 HODL= 25.16 HODL daily income
This way you have extra 50 HODL every second day without mining and without deposits for a year.

On top of that you still have a main option of a deposit with high interest!

Obviously every cryptocurrency is a risk, so I guess no-one is expecting here a "piggy-bank guarantees".

Very interesting indeed:


Same applies here. I have no doubt it's the Devs who control many of the voting coins. But even if not, it's very few "rich" people controlling the vote right now. Voting to screw over the majority (anyone still mining) to benefit the few large coin holders is precisely the reason why it's a bad idea.

Interesting video and discussion on /r/btc on this today -
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4rrqxu/does_anyone_find_it_odd_that_peter_todd_suggested/

The wallet works well. It has everything you need in it. Mine right from the wallets gui. You can also make your investment deposits right there too. It is nice to be able to do everything in one place without mucking around like other devs sometimes do but I guess some of them can be forgiven if it was still beta. Good job !

does fork 86000 mean mining takes a year 

I'm increasingly more scared of HOdl and @freetrade

I am beginning to see too many holes in this. I'm moving all cpu mining away from HOdl.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4qrfny/nutocracy_of_the_nuts_for_the_nuts_and_by_the/d533zl4

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4rpxie/we_hodl_that_an_open_source_gpu_solo_miner_would/d533mtb

FAQ: Can HOdlers vote to steal other HOdler's HOdlings?

I think we'd need to take precedence from company law - I'm pretty sure shareholders can't vote for the 51% to appropriate the shares of the 49%. Ideally we'd want some sort of constitution as to what motions can be valid, and what can't, but in the absence of that, I'd say whatever changes shareholders can typically make in a corporation are a good way to decide.



And yet, that is exactly what just happened. A small number of large HODLers voted to deprive all miners of earnings in order to try to prop up the value of their coins, sacrificing the integrity and long-term value of the coin in the process. If I were writing a "constitution" for a voting coin, rule #1 would be that one class of user cannot vote to punish another class of user for their own personal gain. And that is exactly what has been done.



Why not link Reddit to here for discussion. This is where the conversation started. Why run to another forum rather than answer here?

These is an interesting point, and I've thought about it carefully, but as mentioned this kind of debate will happen over and over again and I don't want to repeat myself, so only going to continue this debate on the reddit thread.

"FAQ: Why are only 10% of HOdlings are required to pass a motion?

10% on one side of a motion is reflective of a 20% turnout. Having been involved in voting coins before, I know this is a very high engagement for any vote. Setting any higher might set the bar too high for passing any controversial motion."

The problem with this logic is that you are comparing apples to oranges here.  If there are 100 eligible voters and you get 20 to come out and vote, THEN you have a 20% turnout.  You have 60 voters (total from both sides) out of 2362 eligible voters, which is a 2.5% turnout.  You are talking about 10% of voting power based on HOdlings, which is not the same thing as getting a 20% turnout of eligible voters.  2.5% is NOT a representative vote, and this is exactly why so many people are upset.  You threw up Nutocracy, something which a lot of people weren't familiar with or at the very least didn't understand how to use (and still don't!), then plastered that same voting system with a big warning telling people effectively that if they voted they were going to lose their coins to hackers which discouraged them from voting, created arbitrary guidelines for the adoption of a measure, created a measure to do something drastic, and then declared it to be the will of the people after 10 people out of 2362 voted for it in the span of two days and then distributed and required the change.  Do you see how this looks from the outside?

Again, if you truly believe in this voting system, then follow your own words!  Get your 20% (total) turnout of eligible voters, and THEN look for your HOdling amount to determine if it should pass.  So 20% turnout of eligible voters total, AND 10% minimum of Hodling power on a side, AND more yes votes than no votes.  That seems to be more than fair doesn't it?  Your big HOdlers still get to sway the vote in a big way, but they can't run away with it as they have done already.

GPU miners need to pay for electricity.

There are 194 other coins GPU miners would prefer to mine other than this one.

The ONLY value to HOdl is that it is a CPU mined coin. If you make it GPU mined it will have no value at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4qrfny/nutocracy_of_the_nuts_for_the_nuts_and_by_the/d532lld

It's even worse than you are describing. Voting appears to be based on the future value of coins, not the actual amount held by someone. So the people who got in with insane interest rates will always control the vote even though they have very few actual coins right now. So if those big bag holders vote that anyone will less than 1M HODL will have their terms extended by a year, they could.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4qrfny/nutocracy_of_the_nuts_for_the_nuts_and_by_the/d530vi9

And happening to have jumped into HODL very early on, or having access to superior mining equipment, or simply being able to buy HODL straight out in large quantities makes that person more informed in the ways of the crypto world, or gives them keener insight into the effects of doing something drastic like this hard fork, or what the effect of a GPU miner will have on the HODL market?  Having money (or in this case HODL) does not make you smarter or more capable of making decisions like this.  All of our investments in time and money are at risk here, not just those who are sitting at the top of the list.  And as I said previously, a lot of the people urging as hard as they could to slow down and think about these things instead of charging forward are the best and brightest IN this little crypto world (I am not among them, but I can see pretty easily who those people are).  They may not be holding all the HODL, but they certainly know what they're talking about.  So who do you think we should be listening to?  

I'm going to start collecting publishing answers on the reddit thread and referring there as I think the answers are getting lost here, so questions are being repeated:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4qpx9g/we_hodl_that_block_rewards_should_remain/d5308rz

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4qrfny/nutocracy_of_the_nuts_for_the_nuts_and_by_the/d530kic

Who all does not need a complete and credible plan, or possibly more importantly, who determines if a plan is complete and credible?

So ok, if I'm reading the charts correctly there are roughly 55 Million Hodls in future matured value, so 55 Million Hodls worth of voting power.  How did you justify setting the "Enact" bar at 5 Million in voting power?  If you were really interested in a representation of the 'voice' of the Hodlers, that bar should have been set at somewhere around 30 Million so you get a clear majority.  Because that 5 million arbitrary number was met with just the first 10 big Hodlers who voted on that side (10 out of 2362 HODlers!  That's 0.4%!), and your total voted on that side (about 6.1 million) only represents about 11% of the 'voices' of the HOdlers.  At the very least it would have provided more time for the "active discussion and debate" and the "influence and persuasion" you speak of.  You still have time before the fork, put this on HODL and open up the voting again on that measure.  If you truly believe that the future of this coin should be ruled by Nutocracy, then put your HODL where your mouth is and get 30 Million in votes.  THAT will quiet some of the critics (including me) of this whole process.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hodl/comments/4qrfny/nutocracy_of_the_nuts_for_the_nuts_and_by_the/

>Motions can be used to give or withold permission from devs to make changes to HOdlcoin. The blockchain has no army, so it cannot compel action nor inaction, but it represents the collective voice of HOdlers and so has standing. It is a transfer of some power from devs and miners to HOdlers.

As a dev, whether I volunteer my time and effort to make changes will depend on a lot of factors, but as github admin, I'll certainly merge changes that have been permitted by the Nutocracy. If you are a dev and want to make hard forking changes that are permitted, that's fine, but you'll need a complete and credible plan.