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Topic: [ANN] [HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast - page 50. (Read 542292 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 255
Betking.io - Best Bitcoin Casino
I don't really fundamentally disagree with what you said but did you answer the question? "enlighten us how the security of the network holds if we lose mass miners?"

Aye, I did. Network security is a cost of entry item. It is a contributing element in determining if a coin is worth nothing or more than nothing. If network security does not exist, then the coin is not viable and is worth zero. So in that sense, miners have a very important role to play. But alas, they cannot positively affect value outside of the 0 or >0 effect I have previously described for the reasons I have previously described.

In reality it takes both sides to mutually agree on a price and both sides set the price.  

I appreciate your argument, here - that whomever places the order, be they buyer or seller, sets the price at which the transaction occurs. While this is a microeconomic interpretation, I certainly cannot disagree that supply & demand effects ought to be considered. But here's the sticking point when it comes to minable cryptos... because miners can create coins out of essentially nothing (their costs of acquisition are sunk out-of-market), supply will continually meet or exceed demand while a coin is still in its PoW stage. And that fact necessarily tilts the supply/demand element in favour of supply, meaning value is determined only by what the market will bear. And "what the market will bear" means the exchange rate a buyer is willing to pay for a coin, not the rate at which a seller is willing to sell.

I apologize for dragging you and the thread OT. Please feel free to respond to my rebuttal if you would like, but I pledge to not pursue the debate further in this milieu.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Miners always think they're so important. Guess what? They're not.

You are obviously more informed then I then.  By all means, please enlighten us how the security of the network holds if we lose mass miners?  I'm all ears waiting to hear/learn how this works.

Always happen to enlighten! Yes, miners support network security, but that is a cost of entry that is not factored into the exchange rate of a coin. If a coin is being mined and bought, then it is viable (i.e., worth something). If a coin is not being mined and bought, then it is not viable (i.e., worth nothing). This binary switch of making a coin worth something greater than zero is the ONLY positive impact miners can have on the value of a coin. I explain:

Miners exert downward pressure on the value of a coin in two significant ways. First, miners are necessarily inflationary to a coin. No matter how many of the coin they buy, they will always have more for sale by virtue of the fact that some proportion of their holdings have been essentially plucked out of the thin, blue sky. Second, miners are also necessarily more likely to dump a coin because their investment is associated with a lower cost of acquisition. Therefore, they can still profit by selling the coin at below market values, driving exchanges rates downward.

So, in other words, miners contribute to the difference between 0 and >0. After that, their influence is entirely negative on a coin - investors and only investors are responsible for any subsequent increases in exchange rate.

I don't really fundamentally disagree with what you said but did you answer the question? "enlighten us how the security of the network holds if we lose mass miners?"

But for fun, playing devils advocate:
Could miners not also exert UPWARD pressure also?  As an example if investor wanted to buy at price X but the lowest sell price from any miner is X + 1000 then for the "investor" to set the price he would have to pay X +1000 in order to be an "investor".  So in this case one could argue the "miner" set the price and not the investor.  This is a "glass half full, glass half empty" type thing.  Just depends on which side you are on.

In reality it takes both sides to mutually agree on a price and both sides set the price.  Same as the stock market, buying food at the super market etc. Supply and demand.  Maybe a poor analogy, but could you walk into your local grocery store and tell the cashier you won't pay $4.00 for a gallon of milk but only pay $3.50 and thus you the investor/buyer set the price?  Nope.  The seller will usually control the price and not the purchaser.  It's a fine balance point of what they can get for product/service. Again supply and demand but the seller actually controls the price. If he prices it to high there might not be a sale however.

Now using the same example above it the grocery store purchased 1000 gallons of milk thinking they could sell them all in one week but 4 days in found they still have 700 gallons left they may decide to lower prices or have a "fire sale" in order to get something for the milk before it expires.  But again the seller sets the price and the buyer/investor decides if they will pay it.  It might go through several rounds before they agree on price.

It's the same as, which came first the chicken or the egg?

But now that I'm done playing devil's advocate. Could you try and tell us why miners don't matter?  Especially considering that if we don't have them we have security and other payment processing issues?
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
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I think there is some thread depression in here..

Ive never seen so much community whining and fud..

Fud took down this coin and nothing else for sure. If this coin turns around somehow i feel like its not gonna be from anything the devs do.


I thought it was lack of dev updates so i posted in this thread asking what would you do if the dev showed up and asked what can we do? and the response was pathetic! I thought there would be a land slide of requests ... It was like two guys saying we need to do something about the vote.

Somehow it feels like this community talked itself out of this coin.








its a thread of bag holders .... what .. u think they tell jokes over here







Three guys walk into a bar,

One guy has a bag and a t-shirt on that says  "HODL".

The second guy has a bag too and he has a shirt on that says "Bag holder".

 The last guy has nothing but he's heard bickering with the other two as they walk in!


Shortly after 3 shots and 3 beers an armed mad man with a gun storms into the bar, points the gun at them and says..
"Give me all your shit!"


Faster than the speed of light both guy number one and guy number two instantly point to guy number three and say   ------>> "He's full of shit!, This is the guy you want!! if you want shit, he's got it!!

 He has been giving us shit for the last ...




legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
I think there is some thread depression in here..

Ive never seen so much community whining and fud..

Fud took down this coin and nothing else for sure. If this coin turns around somehow i feel like its not gonna be from anything the devs do.


I thought it was lack of dev updates so i posted in this thread asking what would you do if the dev showed up and asked what can we do? and the response was pathetic! I thought there would be a land slide of requests ... It was like two guys saying we need to do something about the vote.

Somehow it feels like this community talked itself out of this coin.








its a thread of bag holders .... what .. u think they tell jokes over here
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
I tried really hard to see where are these "investors that buying right now", but I could not find them.

And with a 4.10 BTC 24-hour volume in total (source: http://coinmarketcap.com), they must use another way to buy, that I am not familiar with ...
sr. member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 255
Betking.io - Best Bitcoin Casino
By investors...  do you mean folks like the ones buying right now at 300% lower rates than the IPO itself?    Wink

Make sure you don't make these points too clear...  we don't want trolls'/dumpers' heads exploding all over the thread!!!    Cheesy

Boom.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
sr. member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 255
Betking.io - Best Bitcoin Casino
Miners always think they're so important. Guess what? They're not.

You are obviously more informed then I then.  By all means, please enlighten us how the security of the network holds if we lose mass miners?  I'm all ears waiting to hear/learn how this works.

Always happen to enlighten! Yes, miners support network security, but that is a cost of entry that is not factored into the exchange rate of a coin. If a coin is being mined and bought, then it is viable (i.e., worth something). If a coin is not being mined and bought, then it is not viable (i.e., worth nothing). This binary switch of making a coin worth something greater than zero is the ONLY positive impact miners can have on the value of a coin. I explain:

Miners exert downward pressure on the value of a coin in two significant ways. First, miners are necessarily inflationary to a coin. No matter how many of the coin they buy, they will always have more for sale by virtue of the fact that some proportion of their holdings have been essentially plucked out of the thin, blue sky. Second, miners are also necessarily more likely to dump a coin because their investment is associated with a lower cost of acquisition. Therefore, they can still profit by selling the coin at below market values, driving exchanges rates downward.

So, in other words, miners contribute to the difference between 0 and >0. After that, their influence is entirely negative on a coin - investors and only investors are responsible for any subsequent increases in exchange rate.
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
Was thinking about mining HVC, is this coin still profitable? Is the dev really missing or is this all FUD?
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 250
How to trust coin. Dev not here and team no plan.

Maybe, working in progress ?
Or great fail ?
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
some guys are on the peak wait they can be out...it is so pity that no option
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
oh god, heavycoin,i dont want to go there
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
Total supply: 63M to 128M HVC (depending on decentralized block reward voting)

Is it now 63M or 128M? Great coin Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
How to trust coin. Dev not here and team no plan.
ECF
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
http://www.ecoinfund.com/images/logo.jpg

Website  |  Twitter   |  Bitcointalk

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hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
FUN > ROI
Pool hash rates and miners
pool
rate (Mh/s)*
sr. member
Activity: 743
Merit: 250
45,000,000 - 28,640,736 = 16,359,264 coins left in mint phase. Based on vote history, We have no reason to believe the vote will ever stay under 500. So 500 * 720 = 360,000 coins minted daily means mint phase is over in 45 days or June 7th. Limit phase is 56 days regardless of votes, will end August 2nd. At this point 90% of the coins will be minted.

Sustain phase will mint 10,000,576 max.

8 * 720 = 5760 maximum coins per day in sustain phase which is 4.7 years at max vote

or 1 * 720 = 720 minimum coins per day which is 38 years at minimum vote

or 4 * 720 = 2880 coins per day which is 9.5 years at median vote.

I would still like to see the mint phase extended as long as possible. So please vote 1.


Positive idea @ devs and pool operators.

Is it possible to incorporate a countdown clock to the end of mint phase on heavycoin website and pool websites? This may help make miners more aware of what impact the voting has on the timeline?


That is a good summary!

Once the minting phase is over (and judging by the current vote it will happen soon) there will be no longer short term mining profit dumpers. Of course, that alone will not make the price rise, but if there come some good news and strong support from HVC devs price could skyrocket!
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
IPO holder still holding bag ?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
45,000,000 - 28,640,736 = 16,359,264 coins left in mint phase. Based on vote history, We have no reason to believe the vote will ever stay under 500. So 500 * 720 = 360,000 coins minted daily means mint phase is over in 45 days or June 7th. Limit phase is 56 days regardless of votes, will end August 2nd. At this point 90% of the coins will be minted.

Sustain phase will mint 10,000,576 max.

8 * 720 = 5760 maximum coins per day in sustain phase which is 4.7 years at max vote

or 1 * 720 = 720 minimum coins per day which is 38 years at minimum vote

or 4 * 720 = 2880 coins per day which is 9.5 years at median vote.

I would still like to see the mint phase extended as long as possible. So please vote 1.


Positive idea @ devs and pool operators.

Is it possible to incorporate a countdown clock to the end of mint phase on heavycoin website and pool websites? This may help make miners more aware of what impact the voting has on the timeline?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1124
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