Topic: [ANN] [HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast - page 78. (Read 542296 times)

The only question is which ALTs are good to buy, because it seems too bad with most of the ALTs these days apart from some exceptions which HVC isn't.

Downtrend is only due to BTC being down. Most don't realize that. BTC is rated against the dollar or euro.  But ALTs are rated against BTC. It's a compound effect. So when BTC falls 20%, ALTs should remain locked  or fixed at the price they are at compared to BTC, but they fall too. So when btc is down is when you should buy the ALTs... Because your leverage is so much stronger when BTc rebounds which it will. I don't think most people get that.

people need to get over the vote thing its not going to change embrace it .. sell or hold it if you think the coin has a future

People hold since they can't really sell.

Any idea of relaunch ?

Hey guys, are we going to try this? BlackCoin has been just listed: https://www.coinkite.com/faq/alts. We might fulfill the conditions but I'm not sure

to the moon

Umm, you do realize that people aren't just going to sit around and keep selling at the low price when they know that it will suddenly become 50-100 times harder to mine? Price isn't going to stay the same as now and then BAM! instantly it becomes 5 coins per day instead of 500 coins per day of mining. That will NOT happen unless everyone is dumb. Early adopters won't just dump the coin at the current super low price. Also the new miners or buyers won't even be able to dream of buying it at the current low price. Also, it's not going to be an instantaneous overnight change like you say anyways to the people who are mining & trading.


You see a major problem. But many others do not. So who is right? Still you?
There are about 100 coins out there which I do not see a bright future for.
Heck, I don't even know if Bitcoin or Litecoin has a bright future. I wish I knew...


There you go again. 4 card 280x rig currently mines about 200 Heavycoins right now. You are "assuming" that price will remain the same.
When the time gets closer to the sustain phase, you won't be able to buy 200 HVC for $2.75. Or do you know for sure that you will be?
Once you accept that you have no clue about the future, then you will understand that what you are saying is ALL speculation.

It's not a matter of panicking cause coins are in the toilet right now.  That's a cycle that will rebound in time. I think many people planned on holding HVC until that time when we have a rebound.  However, the coin has to be around, doing well and thriving to get a good return on your mining investment and HVC you have been holding.

Hence my posts.  There is time to fix some of the issues I've described if they get recognized for what they are (issues needing a fix).  The 3 phases need to get the boot as they just don't work.  The voting is/was a nice concept if implemented better.  This could still be useful but the block rewards can't be allowed to just substantially drop at any given time. It needs to gently/smoothly adjust over a proper period to allow the coin to build value. To stay minable, the coins needs to grow in value to offset the ever lowering block reward.  It's a trade off.

Trying to make a change like this now, would be a mess, but would/could allow it to survive. Otherwise it's dead shortly IMHO.

Carlo

hello keccak512 nomisugi
u have 170 btc yet u dont update the coin with the openssl fix
i am disappointed hard

Sorry for the bad info on KGW which was from the link I already posted. http://blog.gryfencryp.to/2014/03/19/heavycoin-hvc-democratic-cpu-coin/
So I did get that wrong by copying what someone else had wrote an article on. You should contact the author to get them to fix this article. My bad for that.  But do you have any info can share with us to show TR has has been well tested before being implemented and doesn't have the same type of flaws like time warp, etc?  While I personally would like to read about it. It's not that important compared to what I write below that I would really like your take on.


According to website sustain phase has 10,000,576 coins that will be issued in the time span of 4.7 years to 38+ years (depending on votes).
10000576/4.7 years = 2,127,782.12 coins per year / 365 = 5829.54 coins per day / 24 hours = 242.89 coins per hour / 30 = 8.09 coins per block. Rounded down to 8 coins per block.  I already had this information in an earlier post which I find alarming.    THIS IS THE BEST CASE based on short vote count.  Long vote count could make it 1 HVC per block reward. Reality will have it come in around the middle and will pay 4 or 5 HVC per block.

But even assuming straight low votes and we end up at only 4.7 years for sustain phase.  WHO IS GOING TO MINE THIS?  This coin will go from 550 (give or take) HVC per block to 5 HVC per block (give or take).

That's over a hundred fold decrease in mining profit overnight.  The coin commits suicide IMHO as soon as that happens.

I'm not a hater, but don't see a bright future or any future for that matter for HVC at current without a core change to fix this major problem as I see it.

keccak512, I'm really trying to hold back even though it probably sounds like I'm being really rough or bashing on your guys.  I just see flaws or missing information on most of the implementation or ideas behind the coin.

Could you please do us all a favor and put a timeline together showing what the math looks like with current voting patters for the rest of mint, what limit will look like and then what sustain will look like.  And then do the same with a vote count half what it presently is and one at 50% higher vote count.  This will lay out a good foundation for people to understand that aren't following the math.

How do you plan on addressing what I called the "suicide" phase?  Is there anything in place, in discussion to fix this or do you really think people will continue to mine HVC at less then 10 coins per block?  What will happen if the hash rate drops to 1/100th or 1/1000th of what it presently is, due to people moving on to mine other more profitable coins?

Carlo (starting to feel like the Grim Reaper of HVC news)

PS there were 5 or 6 other posts since I started typing this and I see people are now getting what I'm saying and are already picking up on some of the problems I alluded to like 51% attack.

Yes, BTC is down and so are other alt coins.  Really doesn't play into my thoughts much at all about this coins implementation.  Really all that does is change the line of profitability a bit as I pointed out in the first "doom/gloom" message written yesterday where the 4 rig AMD is making less than 30 cents a day right now.  But will that same person continue to pay $2.75 in electric costs per day to earn back 5 HVC per block?

funny how everyones panicking  now that all alts are in the toilet. I swear some of you dont have the constitution for this unless is continually on the up and up. I'm just enjoying the train ride, in the coming months the weak will be separated from the chaf. I'm holding my HVC like a boss!

The problem is you need more than 2 months to get a coin out there being used as a currency. As miners are the primary advocates of any coin then most of them leaving the coin would be a disaster.

90% of coins will be mine if 4-5 months and then 10% in 5-38+ years....if you dont see the point i cant explane you..hash rate in sustain phase would be minimal ( prise can not rise with this ridilous inflation ) so anyone with a rig farm could make a 51% attack and kill the coin whatewher he wants..who will drop money in something that is not safe at all?

The mining of coins is really completely irrelevant to their use as a currency. Best to vote 1024, get the coins produced as quickly as possible, and move on to using it as a currency which is the real point of it.

The Sustain phase will self regulate by the number of miners falling to a level that makes it generate a small profit for them. This would be no problem for the coin's primary function of being used as a currency, except for that fact that the resulting low network hashrate could make the coin vulnerable to a 51% attack.

I dont see any  underlying problems with HVC except for the VOTE being too damn high.
One solution could be a fund that the community could donate to which will rent cloudmining power and vote the rewards down. All the mining revenue could go to sustain the operations.
Getting the blockreward to 50-100HVC per block would eventually increase the value greatly, would make the minting period much longer and decrease the sudden drop in mining revenues once minting phase is over.

There have been some very successful altcoins (eg. Quark) without long mint durations or where most minting happens earlier on.

As with all coins before Heavycoin, the community will determine Heavycoin's success.  Relying on two developers will not work.  A community effort/swarm is infinitely more powerful and likely to succeed.

We developers will continue to maintain and develop the code.  We will also back community efforts with the Heavycoin fund.  If you have ideas for promotion, then put them forward (eg. PM us).  Kreativekrypto is handling marketing and has some great ideas, but I'm sure he'd like more community involvement.

We developers have also been focusing on getting some quality articles publish about Heavycoin.  We've been working with a CoinDesk author on an article and also with someone at the Verge on another article.  The process is a bit more involved than we expected and even those authors cannot guarantee publication, as it depends on whether the CoinDesk (editor?) will publish the article in the end.  With all the Bitcoin commotion going on things could go slowly, but we are hopeful.

Another area we feel is important is getting Heavycoin into use, for example, on shops and payment networks such as AltOutlet and Digipay/Moolah.  We are actively perusing these goals, but many are long-term.   Again, nothing helps more than direct, self-organized action by the community.

Except there's a 5 to 38+ year sustain phase.  This is documented here: http://heavycoin.github.io/about.html#decentralised-voting

Did you bother reading anything before posting?

Heavycoin is being mined so intensely because it's a solid coin with unique innovations and developer support.

The code has been working very well without issues.  Heavycoin's unique retargeting algorithm is also working extremely well with no hard-forks, unlike so many copy and paste coins.

Long-term Heavycoin will continue to flourish.  Even at 8 HVC per block in the sustain phase, that's 40 HVC per 10 min, which is pretty good for a relatively small money supply.

That's not true.  We never used Kimoto Gravity Well.  We innovated Temporal Retargeting from the start.  This is visible on the forums going all the way back to the PRE-ANN, but also in the source code.


You need to check your facts and read a bit more.

The whole point of democratic vote is just that. Miners want to mine it with super high block rewards. They vote for it. It gets minted super quick. Price stays low. That's expected. But also with any democratic society, some one convincing enough can change the fate of this coin by getting everyone to start voting lower gradually. By what you say, every country should be self killing right now as everyone is greedy. But that doesn't happen. (well, not every time. =p)

So yeah, the fate of this coin can still change although not easily. If you disagree, that's because you only see the pessimistic side of things. There is no need to try and convince yourself and everyone here about what you think. We heard you the first time. I hope the developer heard you also. But I don't think it needs any fundamental change. It only needs better marketing and a more influential leader / group to change the voting.

Also, last time I checked, there are barely any coins that are a lot more profitable to any other coin. We are talking peanuts in terms of difference. HVC is no different to most. So I'm not sure why you say it as if HVC is abnormal being not profitable compared to other coins. It's not abnormal. Bitcoin was not profitable also at times. Same for Litecoin for a long time.


I don't see Bitcoin becoming $1 million USD either. But some strongly believe that it will. So who is right? Last time i checked, other than Bitcoin being the first and Litecoin second, they are "now" technically NOT any better than many other newer coins. Yes, most are copy coins but many have slight differences and sometimes, that's all it takes to succeed over some other coin or perceived as being better.

So yeah, what are you trying to prove? That you are correct and everyone else should see it same way as you?
HVC value doesn't need to go up 100 times. Whatever price it ends up is what it's true value is at that point in time.
If suddenly people can only mine 70 times less than now, let's see what happens then. Speculation isn't the truth.

Here's how the sustain phase would have to work: HVC would have to have widespread enough adoption and support for the transaction fee too fill the block value. That is why Alt coins in general have the mint spread over long durations of time, decades even. It takes A LOT of innovation and A LOT of investment to build up enough support for sustaining the network post-mint. Bitcoin isn't even there yet. Trust me, I'm an HVC supporter and I'm holding ~1/3 of what I've mined in hope it lives, but without a massive momentum shift I think it'll be a hard sell. Perhaps a better thought out HVC 2.0 will launch and that will be engineered to live on, but my faith is shaken for HVC.

Other issue I have is the presence of the Dev. I know a lot of trolls were trolling about this earlier, but it feels to me like Kekkak is showing up once a week, and if this coin is really going to make a splash I think it needs more than that. IDK, I'm somewhat new to this. Whether or not BC, MYR and ZET are long term contenders is another discussion for another time, but I just can't see HVC taking them on in market cap.

Then again, maybe it will. That's why I still hold