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Topic: [ANN] [POW] [XHV] Haven Protocol - untraceable payments x stable value storage - page 20. (Read 71438 times)

member
Activity: 129
Merit: 10
Whats up with this transfer fee on XHV??

Block Reward: 24.8499
Transfer Fee: 8.5935    <----  THIS
Pool Fee: 0.00
Governence Fee: 1.2420

This is from https://cryptoknight.cc/haven/


Compare to luckypool


member
Activity: 129
Merit: 10
Whats up with this transfer fee on XHV??

Block Reward: 24.8499
Transfer Fee: 8.5935    <----  THIS
Pool Fee: 0.00
Governence Fee: 1.2420



This is from https://cryptoknight.cc/haven/

hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 500
Exactly, this is best example of unpredictability of market seeing how quickly within hours price went this high. Recently those markets whihc were listed on Bittrex has seen increase and then price came back but here isn't that case and situation is totally different. Price went in similar way but found strong support which will make feel bad to many people.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Last week, lots of coins which use Cryptonight algorithms increased significantly, including Haven Protocol.
So, the question for now is, how XHV move next?
Will it keep moving upwards or have to witness corrections?
It is very hard to predict . Last night since i decide to invest drop quite a lot , it was not a smart time to invest i think.  Smiley The cap of this project is quite low and they already listed on big exchange like bittrex.We do have to be positive
member
Activity: 154
Merit: 12
Last week, lots of coins which use Cryptonight algorithms increased significantly, including Haven Protocol.
So, the question for now is, how XHV move next?
Will it keep moving upwards or have to witness corrections?
hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 507
btcstakes.com
Ok, with XHV being listed on Bittrex and the general rise in euphoria, maybe it's time to get this post back to the front, where people can read and respond to it. To be clear, I am genuinely interested in a fruitful discussion regarding the matter and am not trying to fud the project.

Any thoughts?

Good analysis.

Sketchy "stablecoins" are, at best, a stop gap product...
Also, a shitcoin with a 7 figure cap cannot be "stable"...
Looking at you KRB devs who are legit, but have taken the XHV nonsense to the next degree.

The Haven Protocol is like having a "big spec miner with very heavy bags and 150K Twitter followers in your back packet".

So, KRB are basically trying the same thing XHV does, am I getting that right?

You know, I could just move on and don't even care about XHVs doomed efforts, but I think this is extremely symptomatic for the current state of crypto and altcoins. It is not that I think they are malicious or scammers or something like that. I think they started of genuinely believing that they'd find a solution for the problems at hand eventually. And now they are so deep in it that they can't really turn around and basically say "yeah, it's probably not gonna work the way we thought it would", because they'd have a bunch of angry, tikitorches and pitforks swinging "investors" looking for them then.

But the fact of the matter is that not only doesn't the whole thing add up, I have yet to see or hear anything more than *crickets* regarding the issues. Like, if you apply a simple example, you'll find that XHV is way too dependent on certain conditions to actually do what it's supposed to.

Let me state here that I think XHVD can work quite well for some time, given the right market conditions. Which sctually makes the whole thing even worse, because these types of systems tend not to give warning signals or anything, they just at some point flat out will stop working and people will be holding the bag. This is not a XHV specific problem, but can be seen all over the industry. How else can a sane brain rationalize the steps needed to go from BTCs approach to EOS's 21 validators? It's people getting into the market who don't realized and/or understand what Bitcoin was created for, which is, by western standarts, an absolute edge case. We are not surrounded by fiat money crashing left, right and center and for most of us, the banking system and Paypal work quite well. Bitcoin(and other blockchain projects) is primarily not supposed to be a better Paypal (fuck you, Roger), it is a system that is more resilient against catastrophic failure. And catastrophic failure is not a daily occurence, which is why people forget that it's a possibility. I could point towards parallels between this line of thought and the thought process of anti-vaxxers, but I digress.

Let's look at a simple example:

Let's say, XHV spikes to a marketcap of 100,000,000$. At this pricepoint, 2,000,000$ worth of XHV is offshored and 2,000,000 worth of XHVD are created.

Now, the marketcap falls for whatever reason. Let's say, it drops to 10,000,000$. There is still sitting 2,000,000$ worth of XHVD offshore, but instead of being 2% of the XHV supply, they now represent 20%. If they would be onshored and XHV would be created, you'd have to deal with an instant inflation of 20%, add to that the fact that there is no way that the orderbooks on exchanges are as thick as they were at a marketcap of 100,000,000. So, there are 2,000,000$ worth of XHV going into the market, completely crashing the price.

A counter argument could be that miners could not allow these 2,000,000$ to be onshored. This would effectively mean that they are not unconditionally backed with XHV, so one XHVD will not be worth one dollar, even if XHVD can be traded as its own asset.

This creates another question: What exactly is the price of one XHV? Are you going with the spot price, or are you taking orderbook size into account? I guess this wouldn't work, because this would effectively mean that the more XHVD is onshored, the more XHV per XHVD needs to be created to allow the holder to cash out.

Some may say that this is not how rational human beings act, that no one i their right mind would onshore their XHVD, then immediately sell their XHV in a thin market, losing money. Well, but what if they have to, maybe thy got sick and need the money right now, or something like that? Not only that, this is absolutely against the core premise of money itself: that the owner can do whatever the fuck they want with it. If you tie the value of money to a set of conditions that need to be met, this will be priced in.

And this is something that is extremely dangerous when it comes to crypto in general: you can't count on the predictability of human behavior, especially in a scenario in which you have to count constantly on humans behaving rationally or predictably. Because it only needs one moment, one unexpected turn to screw this thing up big time. And at that point, you'll have a bunch of panicking holders running to the exit, either onshoring their XHVD to XHV, inflating the supply even more, or selling their XHVD at completely low, "desperate to get out" discounts.

All this is amplified by the fact that XHVD is XHVs main selling point. If no one uses this mechanism, it just another Monero clone with not much else to show for it. And if a lot of people use it, it just creates a ticking time bomb. You might not even need a big swing in marketcap to make this a problem; a significant amount of XHV being offshored and then being onshored again might do the trick all by its own.

Look, I'm trying hard not to come off as a hater or fudster or anything nad I probably spent way too much thought on this project. But in all honesty, too much of crypt reminds me of the underpants gnomes from South Park(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4bGkU05o) and this is, sadly, a prime example.

He brings up some very valid points, especially about the offshoring. Things are vague right now regarding that. I hope the team has a valid explanation on how this will all work. Sounds very ambitious. I still hold a bag though.  Grin
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
In long term if XHV will hit in the mainstream we should see the market cap to be hundreds of millions or even billions. This would mean 100x - 1000x. For now... just HODL and mine more with my 24x Vega64 @ 34KH/s.
I would rather see again the low prices and get like +50XHV daily to my wallet Smiley

Do you think it will never hit the mainstream, i wanted to give a try and invested some in this project hope it will be great in the future.
newbie
Activity: 206
Merit: 0
In long term if XHV will hit in the mainstream we should see the market cap to be hundreds of millions or even billions. This would mean 100x - 1000x. For now... just HODL and mine more with my 24x Vega64 @ 34KH/s.
I would rather see again the low prices and get like +50XHV daily to my wallet Smiley

A far memory are the days when I was doing 45 usd worth per day, mining cryptonight, with only 6 vegas...
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 513
Ok, with XHV being listed on Bittrex and the general rise in euphoria, maybe it's time to get this post back to the front, where people can read and respond to it. To be clear, I am genuinely interested in a fruitful discussion regarding the matter and am not trying to fud the project.

Any thoughts?

Good analysis.

Sketchy "stablecoins" are, at best, a stop gap product...
Also, a shitcoin with a 7 figure cap cannot be "stable"...
Looking at you KRB devs who are legit, but have taken the XHV nonsense to the next degree.

The Haven Protocol is like having a "big spec miner with very heavy bags and 150K Twitter followers in your back packet".

So, KRB are basically trying the same thing XHV does, am I getting that right?

You know, I could just move on and don't even care about XHVs doomed efforts, but I think this is extremely symptomatic for the current state of crypto and altcoins. It is not that I think they are malicious or scammers or something like that. I think they started of genuinely believing that they'd find a solution for the problems at hand eventually. And now they are so deep in it that they can't really turn around and basically say "yeah, it's probably not gonna work the way we thought it would", because they'd have a bunch of angry, tikitorches and pitforks swinging "investors" looking for them then.

But the fact of the matter is that not only doesn't the whole thing add up, I have yet to see or hear anything more than *crickets* regarding the issues. Like, if you apply a simple example, you'll find that XHV is way too dependent on certain conditions to actually do what it's supposed to.

Let me state here that I think XHVD can work quite well for some time, given the right market conditions. Which sctually makes the whole thing even worse, because these types of systems tend not to give warning signals or anything, they just at some point flat out will stop working and people will be holding the bag. This is not a XHV specific problem, but can be seen all over the industry. How else can a sane brain rationalize the steps needed to go from BTCs approach to EOS's 21 validators? It's people getting into the market who don't realized and/or understand what Bitcoin was created for, which is, by western standarts, an absolute edge case. We are not surrounded by fiat money crashing left, right and center and for most of us, the banking system and Paypal work quite well. Bitcoin(and other blockchain projects) is primarily not supposed to be a better Paypal (fuck you, Roger), it is a system that is more resilient against catastrophic failure. And catastrophic failure is not a daily occurence, which is why people forget that it's a possibility. I could point towards parallels between this line of thought and the thought process of anti-vaxxers, but I digress.

Let's look at a simple example:

Let's say, XHV spikes to a marketcap of 100,000,000$. At this pricepoint, 2,000,000$ worth of XHV is offshored and 2,000,000 worth of XHVD are created.

Now, the marketcap falls for whatever reason. Let's say, it drops to 10,000,000$. There is still sitting 2,000,000$ worth of XHVD offshore, but instead of being 2% of the XHV supply, they now represent 20%. If they would be onshored and XHV would be created, you'd have to deal with an instant inflation of 20%, add to that the fact that there is no way that the orderbooks on exchanges are as thick as they were at a marketcap of 100,000,000. So, there are 2,000,000$ worth of XHV going into the market, completely crashing the price.

A counter argument could be that miners could not allow these 2,000,000$ to be onshored. This would effectively mean that they are not unconditionally backed with XHV, so one XHVD will not be worth one dollar, even if XHVD can be traded as its own asset.

This creates another question: What exactly is the price of one XHV? Are you going with the spot price, or are you taking orderbook size into account? I guess this wouldn't work, because this would effectively mean that the more XHVD is onshored, the more XHV per XHVD needs to be created to allow the holder to cash out.

Some may say that this is not how rational human beings act, that no one i their right mind would onshore their XHVD, then immediately sell their XHV in a thin market, losing money. Well, but what if they have to, maybe thy got sick and need the money right now, or something like that? Not only that, this is absolutely against the core premise of money itself: that the owner can do whatever the fuck they want with it. If you tie the value of money to a set of conditions that need to be met, this will be priced in.

And this is something that is extremely dangerous when it comes to crypto in general: you can't count on the predictability of human behavior, especially in a scenario in which you have to count constantly on humans behaving rationally or predictably. Because it only needs one moment, one unexpected turn to screw this thing up big time. And at that point, you'll have a bunch of panicking holders running to the exit, either onshoring their XHVD to XHV, inflating the supply even more, or selling their XHVD at completely low, "desperate to get out" discounts.

All this is amplified by the fact that XHVD is XHVs main selling point. If no one uses this mechanism, it just another Monero clone with not much else to show for it. And if a lot of people use it, it just creates a ticking time bomb. You might not even need a big swing in marketcap to make this a problem; a significant amount of XHV being offshored and then being onshored again might do the trick all by its own.

Look, I'm trying hard not to come off as a hater or fudster or anything nad I probably spent way too much thought on this project. But in all honesty, too much of crypt reminds me of the underpants gnomes from South Park(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4bGkU05o) and this is, sadly, a prime example.
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 1
In long term if XHV will hit in the mainstream we should see the market cap to be hundreds of millions or even billions. This would mean 100x - 1000x. For now... just HODL and mine more with my 24x Vega64 @ 34KH/s.
I would rather see again the low prices and get like +50XHV daily to my wallet Smiley
member
Activity: 154
Merit: 14
This one is a sleeper. Don't care about a bull-run, but if the off shore protocol hits....big money will be using it. Monero 2.0 I guess.
Almost woken up today.
I took my profit with my last investment into Haven Protocol around five months ago, and I bought them back four weeks ago.
so, It's good to see the coin moved recently.

we are still at very low levels, good buy entries, cause soon we wil see here an over 100k sats on the exchanges
member
Activity: 154
Merit: 12
This one is a sleeper. Don't care about a bull-run, but if the off shore protocol hits....big money will be using it. Monero 2.0 I guess.
Almost woken up today.
I took my profit with my last investment into Haven Protocol around five months ago, and I bought them back four weeks ago.
so, It's good to see the coin moved recently.
legendary
Activity: 1672
Merit: 1046
Here we go again
real nice uptrend lately.
Glad that i still hold some XHV.

Proof of Work Coins are the future anyway.
hero member
Activity: 1680
Merit: 583
xUSD - The PRIVATE stable coin - Haven Protocol
Hello XHV miners

I'm running an 8gpu rig, MSI Armor RX570 8GB cards, on 1190/2200 clocks, and using the last version of SRBminer but can't reach the 1.000+ h/s on any of my cards
Is here anyone with the same/similar setup running stable on higher clocks?
the cards are not bios modded, using the last drivers & compute mode on & MSI afterburner

member
Activity: 154
Merit: 14
after every price spike lot of newcommers on mining pools  Grin haha
you had to mine it when the diff was lower and wait for the spike, not now

but is good to see the support, of course
hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 507
btcstakes.com
This recent listing on Bittrex exploded this market that is clearly visible and we are watching XHV again over $1 after long time. I was looking at perfect moment to pick little more because of limited supply it was always drawing my attention but waiting went wrong. In the long term price have to increase till few folds but in short term may be I get my targeted quantity if I will be lucky.

Same here, I picked some up at $.92 cents. I didn't hear about Haven until it hit Bittrex. The limited supply is a plus.
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 256
This recent listing on Bittrex exploded this market that is clearly visible and we are watching XHV again over $1 after long time. I was looking at perfect moment to pick little more because of limited supply it was always drawing my attention but waiting went wrong. In the long term price have to increase till few folds but in short term may be I get my targeted quantity if I will be lucky.
hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 507
btcstakes.com
This one is a sleeper. Don't care about a bull-run, but if the off shore protocol hits....big money will be using it. Monero 2.0 I guess.
member
Activity: 154
Merit: 12
Just bought some XHV, is the paper wallet the only option or do you have a simple wallet besides that Mac GUI?
No, paper wallet is not the only option to store your HAVEN.
There are so many version of wallet on different OS, for windows, Linux, Mac.
You should choose the most appropriate one for your need.
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 0
Hi guys i have new haven pool
https://havencoin-pool.com/

please send some hash Smiley

https://i.hizliresim.com/zMP4zY.png

Pool Fee 0.44%
Minimum Payout 1 XHV
Payment Interval 10 minutes
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