@ EDL2016 - Hi, lots of businesses - in fact lots of successful businesses use investments as margin money to get loans from banks - and for something like real estate it even makes sense since you can gain a wider portfolio and hence higher volume in returns - in fact not taking a loan may even not make sense! All you need to do is to be able to service the loan.
If rental income from the properties bought can service the loans it shouldn't be an issue, but lot of other pressing queries in this ICO - essentially since this is a real estate business which is tangible - unlike many other crypto 'currencies' or digital 'assets' which bring value to crypto functionality to a large extent; and from what I've read and perceive - REAL does so in a limited fashion with limited risk to the promoters and higher risk to investors - unless they can put across their points otherwise.
@ Melissa - thank you for the answers, I look forward to seeing the roadmap and hopefully more details before the pre-ICO. I'm still open to hearing more about how the REAL team could mitigate the risk to investors - you mentioned 'insurance' in point number 5 - what is the insurance for?
You certainly seem to have a strong, credible team which is good attraction to investors - I think anything into the crypto value add space I'd have jumped on without thinking twice - but you are venturing into an age old business which is real estate which has always been long term for real value - rental income is rental income be in ether or in dollars or in euros - and even though you promise liquidity for token holders - there are questions like what happens if a property is rented and I want to take my money out and the property has no other investors (no one else wants to stake their REAL tokens on this particular property) - does REAL sell it off quickly, even if it is at a loss? So does the liquidity come at a steep price? Or does it just keep the property? What if there are many properties like this - if cryptocurrency speculation is in a bear market and people want to sell all tokens, will REAL be caught bare handed - like EDL2016's fears as mentioned above, collapse with investors money? What steps are taken to protect REAL investors from a volatile cryptocurrency market, which is an added risk to traditional real estate investing?
I see lot more risk for investors and lesser risk for promoters due to these concerns - and a better presented business plan, with factors to mitigate traditional risks in real estate investing would certainly add more value than traditional real estate investing and make this investment a no-brainer.
Topic: [ANN] Real Estate Blockchain Crowdfunding Technology - page 180. (Read 139483 times)
Welcome to Bitcointalk, I see you are a new user and this is your third post.
We disagree on the various things you mentioned. But somehow I suspect you do not care about my answers anyway.
Just to make it clear:
-Leveraging investments with bank financing is always interesting. It is already done by many real estate crowdfunding platforms. It increases all investors income. Banks will happily lend 50% of purchase value to the company who will put the other 50%. There is not any problem as you suggest. Check this as an example and see how they are having a mortgage.
https://www.housers.com/en/projects/121/loan-opportunity-high-ponzaning-in-madrid-spain-housers/financial-information?s=361
-Our team comprises of experienced entrepreneurs in Real Estate, we have two advisors who have been investing in Real Estate institutionally for the last 20 years with great results.
-We have no problem in uploading our company documents. Check the ACRA incorporation mail here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkg53nzzu5kins9/Email%20notification-COI%20%282%29.pdf?dl=0
We just were saying it did not make sense to ask for a certificate of good standing as it is a new company.
Best,
Melissa
Thank you for your answers.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
Melissa, this is not directed at you, so please dont reply. it is directed at those you are selling this idea to as I am writing an opinion to the crowd, it doesnt need the 'seller' coming and pointing out all my wrongs and saying all the right things. No offence, but ......
I was very interested in this but the second I read they would be getting bank loans I was put off. I would be put off investing in a bank een that gives loans to crowdfunding purchases. That laone must have a entire whole new manual written. Mortgages generally have a completley different law when it comes to a joint ownership. It must be insane for a crowdfunding ownership. The legalities and the concern over lawsuits from the crowd wuld be something I think would scare a bank away.
So for that point alone I would have to wonder if this ICO has gotten anything from a bank saying they would give this particular crowd funding business a bank loan or mortgage. You would think that the bank would have to go through everything before agreeing to lend to a crowdfunding business andevery single crowd funding business would have to be scrutinized by a case by case basis. i cant imagine they ahve a run of the mill loan available to this type of business.
Furthermore, back to where Melissa mentioned bank lonas, I was put off this insantly. It makes no sense to me that you would take out a loan for 50% of the house when you are crowdfunding, it is a complete waste of money and brings concern over going bankrupt very quickly, as you have the business who has ownership in the house, the crowd has ownership in the house and then the bank has the biggest ownership in the house. Do the investors get a say in what bank they will take the mortgage from or is this just up to the business to decide? The thing is the business is the minority holder out of all the groups involved. So surely the crowd gets a say in this, but then you have to think they would not have many options as i do not see banks giving crowd funding groups bank loans on houses very easily.
Actually, if you really think about it, if the business is going to get a bank loan for 50% of the house, and they have already put 350k into this business, why would these people not just buy the house themselves, with the baknk loan and then flip it and buy again, and flip it and buy a couple and flip them etc, why would they not just be a little investment group making a killing, why do they need crowdfunding if they have bank loans for half the property and there is so many of them involved. Surely with so many involved thye could do a much better job than a experimental business that still needs the same bank loan but with a ton more people with their hand in the jar.
The second they menon bank loans, it brings up a ton of questions, it becomes very experimental for a bank and the risks are huge. The risks of lawsuits for ownership from the crowd is a massive risk. Banks who give loans out to joint ventures dont give them out to one party considered 90% and 100 people considered 10%. That statement may actually be way off base from me but this whole thing has annoyed me as the more i write the more questions and concern that come to mind.
I think this is doomed to fail from the start. Why on earth would a successful business need a bank loan......they think its better to have more propertoes and multiple loans all while the bank has 50% of every single investment property than the bsuiness adthe crowd owning the properties outright. They seem to think jumping into the deep end with the bank paying for half of every investment is better than them owning one on their own. Brings me back to why would this crack team of real estate experts not just buy the houses between themselves and sell them/ They seem to be destined to earn less money by having a crowd and the bank involved in every single property. if they were as good as they claim to be they would not be starting a business like this,. Surely they have watched Million Dollar listing and know that this is going a bit backwards.
I can tell you now that the whole thing about investing in multiple countries in not very well thought out considering every single country has different land ownership laws, different lending laws, different business laws, etc etc. Not to mention tax laws.
This ICO may not exactly fail, but they seem to be taking on a lot more risk than anything i have ever heard of and i dont think they are going to have a bank that will loan them 50% on a property and if they do im sure that bank will only give them one loan at a time while they see how they go with it, which makes me think they should just do it wihtout the bank.
Anyone notice there is a reason and excuse for everything as well? Spelling mistakes pinted out so they excuse it by talking about grammar and speakign other languages. They arent going to get bank loans like that. Also if their team is full of coders...i thought they were real estate agents and thats not a good excuse anyway as they need marketing right?
So this message has had the spelling mistakes and grammar left in for keeping with he theme of the thread.
Cant supply company documents because they are new? Companies get their documents before they are officially a company/ Maybe melissa tries to answer everything and things she does not know she does nto bother asking the person who does know? Will that continue through everything? Good luck to those investing in this but if they had any clue about real estate they would know that Spain is one of the cheapest places to buy property. Why would they buy cheap property to sell just as cheap when hey have the whole world to look over. Something tells me they have not put much effort into their research here./
Hi Melissa,
Appreciate the active responses from the REAL team.
I have a few queries -
1) As of now what's available to the public and potential investors is the website, and few details of the members of the team. There's a 5 year operational fund plan that has been shown in the white paper, but no business plan. The company is hardly a couple of months old - and there aren't clear timeline goals given. After the ICO, within how much time can investors expect rental income, for instance?
2) Depending on where the REAL team plans on acquiring properties -there are going to be a lot of macroeconomic factors in play - since we are talking mid - long term investments. From what I understand a good portion of the team is from Spain, so naturally there would be inclination to invest in a comfort zone / known area. However how is the team going to ensure investments are going to be in areas where demand outstrips supply, to ensure capital gains mid to long term?
3) As I understand there's an agreement with a hotel chain, are agreements going to be presented to investors? How do investors know agreements are negotiated favourably for the investor - a hypothetical situation is there's a renter, a broker and an investor, the broker may give favourable terms in comparison to the local market to the renter and take a cut in the savings to the renter (say 20%), at the same time take 10% from the investor from the rent - how is it that fair play ensured?
4) As a potential investor my question is simple - why should I not invest in a local rental property and invest in REAL; other than the fact that with REAL I can invest a minimal sum that may not be the complete value of a property? If I can afford to invest in whole properties myself - what is the attraction of REAL to me? Am I not a target audience for REAL?
Is the REAL model tuned only to people who cannot afford to invest in complete properties themselves?
5) Another concern is REAL seeks a 400K ether hard cap invest (120 million US$ today approx) if REAL would assure potential investors that capital losses would be on REAL's account then I understand that some risk is going to be absorbed by REAL and that is a benefit to investors - otherwise REAL doesn't possess much risk since investments are made with OPM (other people's money) and at most the lose the profits they could have gained.
How can you allay this concern of investors - that REAL's risk in all of this is highly limited?
Appreciate the active responses from the REAL team.
I have a few queries -
1) As of now what's available to the public and potential investors is the website, and few details of the members of the team. There's a 5 year operational fund plan that has been shown in the white paper, but no business plan. The company is hardly a couple of months old - and there aren't clear timeline goals given. After the ICO, within how much time can investors expect rental income, for instance?
2) Depending on where the REAL team plans on acquiring properties -there are going to be a lot of macroeconomic factors in play - since we are talking mid - long term investments. From what I understand a good portion of the team is from Spain, so naturally there would be inclination to invest in a comfort zone / known area. However how is the team going to ensure investments are going to be in areas where demand outstrips supply, to ensure capital gains mid to long term?
3) As I understand there's an agreement with a hotel chain, are agreements going to be presented to investors? How do investors know agreements are negotiated favourably for the investor - a hypothetical situation is there's a renter, a broker and an investor, the broker may give favourable terms in comparison to the local market to the renter and take a cut in the savings to the renter (say 20%), at the same time take 10% from the investor from the rent - how is it that fair play ensured?
4) As a potential investor my question is simple - why should I not invest in a local rental property and invest in REAL; other than the fact that with REAL I can invest a minimal sum that may not be the complete value of a property? If I can afford to invest in whole properties myself - what is the attraction of REAL to me? Am I not a target audience for REAL?
Is the REAL model tuned only to people who cannot afford to invest in complete properties themselves?
5) Another concern is REAL seeks a 400K ether hard cap invest (120 million US$ today approx) if REAL would assure potential investors that capital losses would be on REAL's account then I understand that some risk is going to be absorbed by REAL and that is a benefit to investors - otherwise REAL doesn't possess much risk since investments are made with OPM (other people's money) and at most the lose the profits they could have gained.
How can you allay this concern of investors - that REAL's risk in all of this is highly limited?
A very interesting project making use of blockchain in real estate ventures.A quick question, how do you intend overcoming the various laws governing real estate ventures in various jurisdictions so as to make the project successful no matter how hostile a place is to cryptocurrencies?
We will act as a fund, meaning we will just buy the properties with our company, and then distribute the dividends to our users.
Thank you for your answers.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
Hi!
i: I am not sure it exists or not for new companies, all I am saying is I do not understand why would anyone purchase it or request it being a new company. You can check it is incorporated. Perhaps you can explain me why would you want to see that. Also if you buy it and send us or publish here we can discount it from your contribution on the token sale. We want to be focused on the important issues.
ii: No, Token holders will not be involved in that. That will be the company. Token holders will just receive more profits so the company will make more fees.
iii: I do not know the answer. Perhaps other Cryptocurrencies.
Is this a REIT?
A very interesting project making use of blockchain in real estate ventures.A quick question, how do you intend overcoming the various laws governing real estate ventures in various jurisdictions so as to make the project successful no matter how hostile a place is to cryptocurrencies?
Thank you for your answers.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
These are good news. Tokens will be listed for trading on other stock exchages? Which exchanges are planned?
yes! We are told we can not disclosure while in negotiations. But it is easy, they are the famous ones
These are good news. Tokens will be listed for trading on other stock exchages? Which exchanges are planned?
We are proud to announce our first Exchange partnership https://medium.com/@real_token/our-first-exchange-partnership-fc0ea3961736
I spent some time last night reading your Whitepaper and have some questions:
Thank you.
- You say that 350K USD have already been invested. These were invested when the company was incorporated in Singapore, right?
- Can you please provide the Certificate of Good Standing from Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority ACRA - this should be free for company members.
- Tokens for economic rights - I want to know how are these rights enforced in case of a breach of contract. Will there be a contract between the investor and your company?
- We are targeting 12-20% annual returns depending on the type of asset and market risk - Can you please confirm if this example is correct: If a property is bought for 1 million USD and I invest 100,000 REAL tokens then I will be receiving a monthly dividend of 10% (minus 10% fee) of the monthly rent.
- Why are you using mortgages and loans to acquire properties? Isn't it better to pay them in full with the investment money, so you don't pay interest to the banks?
- We expect that as our site becomes popular, and as our users start receiving regular income and profits on a monthly basis, they will want to acquire more REAL Tokens in order to invest in more Real Estate assets. This will cause the REAL Token to grow in value and price. - Can you give an example of another market where this is possible? – Buy assets that are increasing in value, but with fixed dividends payouts.
- In the rare case of losses the REAL fee won’t be applied and the user will lose some of his invested Tokens. User won’t ever lose more than his invested Tokens. - Can you clarify this point please. If my REAL tokens investment in a building is 10% of the total price and you sell that building at a loss, then I will receive my tokens back minus 10%? Is it possible that a user can lose all of his invested token in a building?
- The Reserve will not be accessed for a minimum of 4 quarters (12 months), and will be re-locked or burned – Who decides that? You or investors by voting?
- Is the floor price same as average annual returns?
Thank you.
More and more coverage!
https://coinjournal.net/real-announces-blockchain-crowdfunding-platform-real-estate-investment/
https://coinjournal.net/real-announces-blockchain-crowdfunding-platform-real-estate-investment/
Only 2000 views, you should try targeting bigger news outlets, like techcrunch. If this will be big, think big!
The journalist contacted us!
We are getting contacted by more and more journalists now.
More and more coverage!
https://coinjournal.net/real-announces-blockchain-crowdfunding-platform-real-estate-investment/
https://coinjournal.net/real-announces-blockchain-crowdfunding-platform-real-estate-investment/
Only 2000 views, you should try targeting bigger news outlets, like techcrunch. If this will be big, think big!
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