kinda off topic but funny how things go
http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-declares-bankruptcy-cites-upcoming-bitcoin-subsidy-halving/
Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 14. (Read 1260373 times)
May 27, 2016, 04:11:28 PM
May 27, 2016, 02:37:07 PM
Yeah, I designed a stick. Building some right now, actually, to ship out to a couple resellers early next week. The next version is with the driver guy right now.
May 27, 2016, 02:21:20 PM
You might be thinking of the WASP project, and yeah those guys wasted all their time and resources on endless administrative meetings while one engineer blew all the money on an unmanufacturable prototype. Something like that.
I was part of the previous group who had some of the same members, the USB stick miner that used some chip, I forgot already, did a group buy for Asia. It was blue something. Blue Fury? And then ... well, it got messy after that. The stick miners did work, 2~3 GHS per stick, but there was no second run. I didn't think WASP would fare any better.
Here, found it: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-blue-fury-usb-miner-090-or-less-per-unit-dabs-philippinesasia-296953
Sadly, I didn't keep any for myself.
I heard you did stick miners too, maybe you got a new one? Seems I'm late for these things already. I had an SP20 but gave it away to a friend.
May 27, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
You might be thinking of the WASP project, and yeah those guys wasted all their time and resources on endless administrative meetings while one engineer blew all the money on an unmanufacturable prototype. Something like that.
May 27, 2016, 12:38:37 PM
If I was able to right now I'd be making my own ASICs and handing them out at cost to non-bulk customers.
I think a small group tried that. But ultimately failed. (Internal problems I'm guessing.) Or they were supposed to buy bulk chips and make their own boards and open-source it so everyone can copy.What we should do is get a few rich guys to start this, then make the chips, then hand them out at cost. Without the rich dudes to fund the capital needed, this would become a pre-order, which is what Avalon did with their very first miners. Which no one today will do.
May 27, 2016, 10:22:27 AM
The problem is centralization. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/decentralized-crypto-currency-including-bitcoin-is-a-delusion-any-solutions-1319681
May 27, 2016, 07:49:27 AM
That's actually still part of the same argument - the part where they'll still win. GPU manufacturers aren't going to sell exlusively to them, and will probably always have some stock for the general market, is the only benefit. Home miners still get screwed, but not quite as badly.
Also, I don't appreciate being accused of defending ASIC manufacturers. I'm just stating the reality of it, while being one of the few people actively working (from the supply side) to keep home mining possible, and have been openly criticizing ASIC makers' shafting of the market for about the last year and a half. If I was able to right now I'd be making my own ASICs and handing them out at cost to non-bulk customers.
Also, I don't appreciate being accused of defending ASIC manufacturers. I'm just stating the reality of it, while being one of the few people actively working (from the supply side) to keep home mining possible, and have been openly criticizing ASIC makers' shafting of the market for about the last year and a half. If I was able to right now I'd be making my own ASICs and handing them out at cost to non-bulk customers.
May 27, 2016, 05:09:25 AM
Sounds like the only benefit a home user can get from GPU mining, as noted a few posts up, is availability of hardware, since GPUs are a general commodity more-or-less equally available to anyone. In any other aspect of mining economy we have the same scenario as with ASICs - bulk pricing of machinery and energy will still win out.
Even that argument fails the second that Bitmain manufacturs a cheap interface/motherboard with controller, which combined with their ability to manufacture their own PSUs and buy GPUs in the 10,000s, would give them a significant price advantage on the assets. You can't win this.
May 27, 2016, 03:11:35 AM
Sounds like the only benefit a home user can get from GPU mining, as noted a few posts up, is availability of hardware, since GPUs are a general commodity more-or-less equally available to anyone. In any other aspect of mining economy we have the same scenario as with ASICs - bulk pricing of machinery and energy will still win out.
ASICS and ASIC creators have basically destroyed home mining and you guys want to go to bat for them, sounds like a sucker for punishment or battered spouse syndrome thing is going on here.
GPU farms are bad but Scummy asic companies are 10 times worse if you don't get that check out all the threads of folks ripped off and STILL being ripped off by these clowns.
Even in its heyday sp-tech actually screwed the ealier adopters of the sp3500 with under spec equipment they had to issue coopons for that we had to use to buy MORE hardware from them or paltry refunds.
I remember waiting two months over the time i was supposed to receive my sp3500 and the funny thing is SP-Tech was the BEST OF THE BUNCH lol other chip makers were far worse with thier datorhalls etc.
Falling on deaf ears dude......I'll stick with my GPU's thank you
You guys do know,you ain't gettin no ASIC chips right?? If you do it'll be in the far future.Good luck with that
Have to agree (addicted to mining asics still doing ok with Titans) but NOW GPU is ok if you must mine for FUN now..with etherum the current choice
....but likely the future is a pos coin kinda thing like LISK with CPU
virtual servers to keep the network up......I don't like it much...but for new coin (assuming that means anything survival wise) seems the likely course..some kind of virtual home
mining could result from that ..but in Lisk's case they limit their miners to 101 delegates voted on by the amount of lisk each has committed to each other in a vote..ie
based on lisk 'weight' of coin as it were...don't like it much. but that will likely be the NEXT method of this kinda thing..ie centralization
again hope I am incorrect
May 27, 2016, 02:56:23 AM
Sounds like the only benefit a home user can get from GPU mining, as noted a few posts up, is availability of hardware, since GPUs are a general commodity more-or-less equally available to anyone. In any other aspect of mining economy we have the same scenario as with ASICs - bulk pricing of machinery and energy will still win out.
ASICS and ASIC creators have basically destroyed home mining and you guys want to go to bat for them, sounds like a sucker for punishment or battered spouse syndrome thing is going on here.
GPU farms are bad but Scummy asic companies are 10 times worse if you don't get that check out all the threads of folks ripped off and STILL being ripped off by these clowns.
Even in its heyday sp-tech actually screwed the ealier adopters of the sp3500 with under spec equipment they had to issue coopons for that we had to use to buy MORE hardware from them or paltry refunds.
I remember waiting two months over the time i was supposed to receive my sp3500 and the funny thing is SP-Tech was the BEST OF THE BUNCH lol other chip makers were far worse with thier datorhalls etc.
Falling on deaf ears dude......I'll stick with my GPU's thank you
You guys do know,you ain't gettin no ASIC chips right?? If you do it'll be in the far future.Good luck with that
May 27, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Sounds like the only benefit a home user can get from GPU mining, as noted a few posts up, is availability of hardware, since GPUs are a general commodity more-or-less equally available to anyone. In any other aspect of mining economy we have the same scenario as with ASICs - bulk pricing of machinery and energy will still win out.
ASICS and ASIC creators have basically destroyed home mining and you guys want to go to bat for them, sounds like a sucker for punishment or battered spouse syndrome thing is going on here.
GPU farms are bad but Scummy asic companies are 10 times worse if you don't get that check out all the threads of folks ripped off and STILL being ripped off by these clowns.
Even in its heyday sp-tech actually screwed the ealier adopters of the sp3500 with under spec equipment they had to issue coopons for that we had to use to buy MORE hardware from them or paltry refunds.
I remember waiting two months over the time i was supposed to receive my sp3500 and the funny thing is SP-Tech was the BEST OF THE BUNCH lol other chip makers were far worse with thier datorhalls etc.
May 26, 2016, 08:25:35 PM
Sounds like the only benefit a home user can get from GPU mining, as noted a few posts up, is availability of hardware, since GPUs are a general commodity more-or-less equally available to anyone. In any other aspect of mining economy we have the same scenario as with ASICs - bulk pricing of machinery and energy will still win out.
May 26, 2016, 08:17:08 PM
What we really need for decentralization is something like the 21 inc computer. Something that can be set to plug-and-forget, not something that you use daily and that is prone to damage if you run it for 24/7 for 1-2 straight years.
You're describing an ASIC. Or at least something like what Spondoolies used to make. May 26, 2016, 03:42:57 PM
Your delusional if you think GPU and ASIC mining is comparable. ANYONE can buy a gpu and fire up a rig. yeah maybe the big boys could get thier GPUs from the source maybe 50% cheaper than the regular joe but at least everyone has a shot.
While you are correct that anyone can buy a gpu and fire up a rig the reality doesn't work like this. People will need a full PC to use the GPU, then they wouldn't be able to play any game on that PC, then they need to keep the PC running 24/7 and so on. There are many variables that just don't work. The big boys would be able to run the GPUs 24/7 while the home user only a couple of hours per day. The home user will need to upgrade his home electric circuit if he wants to fire up more rigs and he will need space and cooling for them. It's an added costs that the big boys can cut it by a lot using datacenters. There are many downsides to your scenario.
Well, almost everyone has a PC.
PC usage is "decentralized" and we are not all using dumb terminals, which was envisioned in 60ies and 70ies.
I think that BTc/whatever coin decentralization is possible along the same line-a coin that has strictly CPU (not even GPU) algorithm without scaling.
I would think that it should be possible.
PC usage is "decentralized" and we are not all using dumb terminals, which was envisioned in 60ies and 70ies.
I think that BTc/whatever coin decentralization is possible along the same line-a coin that has strictly CPU (not even GPU) algorithm without scaling.
I would think that it should be possible.
Yeah, but a GPU that mines for a decent speed costs money, then you need a good power supply, then you won't be able to play games on that PC while mining. You are asking home owners to invest in a GPU that will mine maybe less than 8 hours per day. What we really need for decentralization is something like the 21 inc computer. Something that can be set to plug-and-forget, not something that you use daily and that is prone to damage if you run it for 24/7 for 1-2 straight years.
May 26, 2016, 03:19:38 PM
Your delusional if you think GPU and ASIC mining is comparable. ANYONE can buy a gpu and fire up a rig. yeah maybe the big boys could get thier GPUs from the source maybe 50% cheaper than the regular joe but at least everyone has a shot.
The way the ASIC bs works now , is its propriety they ASIC makers basically mine the hell out of watever with the ASICs the develop and either sell the tattered masses chips that have been blasted to hell for months or old tech 55nano crap they want to upgrade out of
so they get to keep out money AND mine at the same time its a total joke.
its not like AMD and Nvidia are biting the hand that feeds them like the Asic companies do so i trust them far more.
Not to say that if all coins were GPU mined it would not be harder to the average joe to find blocks or watever but thats what pools are for. Any sane home miner would rather go back to GPU mining than stay with ASICs becuase the whole ASIC game is doubly rigged
its not just the money they have over you its the hoarding of the Tech they get away with too or outright just ripping fools off lol , hello KNC, Black Arrow the list goes on.
Never heard of AMD or Nvidia taking peoples money and not giving them what they paid for right ? i didn't think so.
The way the ASIC bs works now , is its propriety they ASIC makers basically mine the hell out of watever with the ASICs the develop and either sell the tattered masses chips that have been blasted to hell for months or old tech 55nano crap they want to upgrade out of
so they get to keep out money AND mine at the same time its a total joke.
its not like AMD and Nvidia are biting the hand that feeds them like the Asic companies do so i trust them far more.
Not to say that if all coins were GPU mined it would not be harder to the average joe to find blocks or watever but thats what pools are for. Any sane home miner would rather go back to GPU mining than stay with ASICs becuase the whole ASIC game is doubly rigged
its not just the money they have over you its the hoarding of the Tech they get away with too or outright just ripping fools off lol , hello KNC, Black Arrow the list goes on.
Never heard of AMD or Nvidia taking peoples money and not giving them what they paid for right ? i didn't think so.
So you are saying home miners running 5-6 GPUs can compete with mines running thousands? How is that different from people on the forum with a couple miners here or there versus ASIC farms? Also you conveniently forget to speak on the power aspect. Again large mines with cheap power will stamp out the lil guys at home just like with ASICs. I fail to see how a little guy joining a pool is gonna have a chance against a mining company with thousands on the same pool.
As far as the hardware companies go, I never mentioned anything about any of them so I am not sure why you ran off on that tangent when responding to my comments. As far as that goes, there is a VERY old saying....caveat emptor. Do your research before you buy things, if you get suckered in by pre-orders from a small specialty company without a long track record that is 100% your fault.
I mean the large video card manufacturers never ever release bad hardware right?
Ill just leave this right here.....
http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-ceo-addresses-gtx-970-controversy/
May 26, 2016, 02:14:01 PM
Well, almost everyone has a PC.
PC usage is "decentralized" and we are not all using dumb terminals, which was envisioned in 60ies and 70ies.
I think that BTc/whatever coin decentralization is possible along the same line-a coin that has strictly CPU (not even GPU) algorithm without scaling.
I would think that it should be possible.
PC usage is "decentralized" and we are not all using dumb terminals, which was envisioned in 60ies and 70ies.
I think that BTc/whatever coin decentralization is possible along the same line-a coin that has strictly CPU (not even GPU) algorithm without scaling.
I would think that it should be possible.
May 26, 2016, 01:09:20 PM
Your delusional if you think GPU and ASIC mining is comparable. ANYONE can buy a gpu and fire up a rig. yeah maybe the big boys could get thier GPUs from the source maybe 50% cheaper than the regular joe but at least everyone has a shot.
That's not true. In a GPU only world those with facilities near to negligible cost power can still push the difficulty so high that 'normal' people are to mine at a loss even using the same hardware. The GPU generation was also rather maintenance heavy and so centralisation again helps with that.
The difference is with GPU's there is no withholding of current-generation technology by the OEM's to reap the reward early. It may not differ much in terms of relative difficulty and centralization of hashing, but it would even the playing field in terms of efficiency and eliminate pre-order fuckups like mentioned above. Although I agree maintaining a GPU farm is a rather large P.I.T.A. compared to standalone ASIC miners...
Also things like depreciation of equipment (waste), wildly fluctuating equipment price (read: BMT), late shipments, etc would be considerably less of a concern.
May 26, 2016, 11:24:01 AM
A great time for PoC (and release of PoC2 in a matter of a month) to take over as preferred PoW style of mining. Requires almost no power, and keeps decentralization as it is most efficiently mined with drives that people already own. The consumer grade hardware will forever be king of BURST and PoC algorithm. Come along to the future of PoW style mining, and check out the way crypto was meant to be.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-new-burst-op-mine-any-free-space-hdd-mining-ats-ae-p2p-marketmore-1323657
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-new-burst-op-mine-any-free-space-hdd-mining-ats-ae-p2p-marketmore-1323657
I did a quick read on that. Some people have 200 TB of storage already. I'm sure some data center will eventually house a huge chunk of that network, I think 7000 TB is the current size.
I can't imagine how to run this as a home miner, I mean, I could get 32 TB of HDD maybe. Or someone makes a USB hub thing that accepts ... well, there are 49 port hubs, with 8 TB per port, you could get 400 TB on one "server".
I can't wait for Samsung to drop their prices on that 16 TB SSD. But then I'd probably use it for "real" stuff, not as PoC mining.
May 26, 2016, 06:11:41 AM
Your delusional if you think GPU and ASIC mining is comparable. ANYONE can buy a gpu and fire up a rig. yeah maybe the big boys could get thier GPUs from the source maybe 50% cheaper than the regular joe but at least everyone has a shot.
That's not true. In a GPU only world those with facilities near to negligible cost power can still push the difficulty so high that 'normal' people are to mine at a loss even using the same hardware. The GPU generation was also rather maintenance heavy and so centralisation again helps with that.
May 26, 2016, 04:20:17 AM
I was literally typing up a response that is almost exactly the same as you just posted. No matter what happens, the participation incentive for all these coins is based on profit. When money is involved, companies will find a way no matter what changes are made to continue making a profit.
I keep seeing people say that coins mined with ASICs need to go back to GPU mining. If that happens all the datacenters running ASIC equipment will switch over to GPUs as we have seen with the current flavor of the month ETH. This would also make it easier to bounce around between coins if everything was mined on the same hardware. I also see people saying that transitioning to PoS will help. Problem with that is that profits from PoS are based on the amount of currency you control. So then companies will just buy up the coins and profit that way without the additional hardware/operating costs of running large datacenters.
There is just no way to keep things decentralized when money is involved. People just need to accept that and move on.
I keep seeing people say that coins mined with ASICs need to go back to GPU mining. If that happens all the datacenters running ASIC equipment will switch over to GPUs as we have seen with the current flavor of the month ETH. This would also make it easier to bounce around between coins if everything was mined on the same hardware. I also see people saying that transitioning to PoS will help. Problem with that is that profits from PoS are based on the amount of currency you control. So then companies will just buy up the coins and profit that way without the additional hardware/operating costs of running large datacenters.
There is just no way to keep things decentralized when money is involved. People just need to accept that and move on.
Well spoken!
Your delusional if you think GPU and ASIC mining is comparable. ANYONE can buy a gpu and fire up a rig. yeah maybe the big boys could get thier GPUs from the source maybe 50% cheaper than the regular joe but at least everyone has a shot.
The way the ASIC bs works now , is its propriety they ASIC makers basically mine the hell out of watever with the ASICs the develop and either sell the tattered masses chips that have been blasted to hell for months or old tech 55nano crap they want to upgrade out of
so they get to keep out money AND mine at the same time its a total joke.
its not like AMD and Nvidia are biting the hand that feeds them like the Asic companies do so i trust them far more.
Not to say that if all coins were GPU mined it would not be harder to the average joe to find blocks or watever but thats what pools are for. Any sane home miner would rather go back to GPU mining than stay with ASICs becuase the whole ASIC game is doubly rigged
its not just the money they have over you its the hoarding of the Tech they get away with too or outright just ripping fools off lol , hello KNC, Black Arrow the list goes on.
Never heard of AMD or Nvidia taking peoples money and not giving them what they paid for right ? i didn't think so.
Well spoken! Pretty much what I was thinking but couldn't put in writing
I mined BTC with GPU's from June 2011 to about July 2013 when I finally got my BFL 30 gh'er.The diff did grow,but EVERYONE still made coin.The earnings were still pretty good until Bitfury (I know they just sold to that guy mining in washington)& KnC,etc..... started their mines.
Thanks for all the input guys!!
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