Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 561. (Read 1260354 times)

You should have warned me about the annyoing and loud music.....

Anyway, as for the pool debate:
In my opinion we need more pools that work equally as well as gh.io .

In the end, pools are in a contest about miners. The best pool wins. Time to build or upgrade existing pools to the same awesome functionality and voila, no more problems with one big pool.

By the way: Do all p2pool nodes work "together" at generating a block on the blockchain, or is it every node for itself?
Edit: Obviously all p2pool nodes together.

p2pool is the way ahead, murdof helped me set up an EU node for www.centralcavern.uk
and you can play manic miner if you get bored watching your SP10's on the stats page   

Pools don't have any incentive to get hacked by malicious parties, either. An attack has already been implemented (probably by a disgruntled ex-employee of CEX.io) which used ghash.io's hashpower for malicious ends contrary to ghash.io's own incentives.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qqmr4/ghashiocexio_and_doublespending_against_betcoin/

Miners don't really notice as much as you think. Mostly, they do everything it takes to get their machines running efficiently, and then as long as they are getting a good hashrate on their pool and a good flow of coins into their wallets, they're usually more interested in fishing than in bitcoin network security. Many people are hundreds of km away from their miners, and can't readily access them to change pool settings. Most just don't care. If they did, ghash.io probably never would have gotten past 30%, much less 51%.

I agree that the logic would be best implemented in cgminer. Perhaps I'll see what ckolivas has to say about it.

Sure it does. Ask advania in iceland how much they charge for power when you supply the fully populated container.
They pay 4 ct for power, they will bill you 5 ct.

Instant savings.

This argument is irrelevant, aswell as impractical. You can´t expect companies to lower the price every day, as at the end of the day they will be left with nothing to sell at a profit.

It also doesn´t change the fact that when you buy in bulk, you get it cheaper.

When you deploy in bulk (atleast in a smart manner) you get it cheaper.

Therefore you will always have an advantage if you are either a big player, or many little players together.

Hosting companies DO NOT pass electricity savings to customers. if you compare prices in WA-they are essentially the same despite the fact that they pay 2c/electricity.
Electrical savings transmission simply does not WORK!

Do you know any company that systematically does that week after week, apart from Bitmain. I don't.

The immersion cooling is just about nearly pointless with Bitcoin mining. The only thing that its proponents bring to table are workarounds for lack of proper design and engineering. Immersion cooling with 3M engineered fluids only makes sense if there are real constraints on the cooled equipment: speed of light limitation, unusual complexity, high density, etc. None of that really matter for Bitcoin mining.

If your goal is low PUE then simply use typical evaporative cooling well known in chemical process engineering and refrigeration. Most of the required equipment is already available, all you'll need to do is bring a chemical/thermodynamic process engineer to the table with the PCB design engineer, who is already working for Spondoolies. Together they need to design a proper heat exchanger for the mining chips and the associated buck converters. I already asked Spondoolies if SP30 motherboard was designed for cutting into 15 smaller boards. Apparently not, probably because the PCB design engineer wasn't given this as a requirement. So they cut the heathsinks into 15 smaller pieces.

They need to conceptually invert that design: single large liquid heat exchanger and multitude of small PCBs hosting the hot chips is the way to go long term.

3M's profit margins on their immersion cooling fluids are so high, that they require scientific notation to fit in the spreadsheets. Just use common chilling/refrigeration equipment instead where the profit margins are in expressed in two digits.

personally, i like being able to warm my house in the winter with my rigging, but I doubt the endgame will be reliant on miners personal preferences.
the future is here, time to embrace it.

Capital costs of immersion cooling aren´t as high as you might think.

It costs significantly less than 1$ per W and allows you to save on components like heatsinks and increase the density on your PCBs.
It also saves you hosting costs and the system is easily upgradable.

Have your next generation gear ready? Superb! No need to buy heatsinks or fans anymore, just switch out the blades in your tanks.

Now you might say that is almost 30% of a miner, but you aren´t seeing that future gear will be below 0,5W/GH.

It will remain to be seen wether this is the cooling technique which will prevail in the long term.



What is quite clear today is that deploying in larger numbers gives you significant cost advantages, both in the short and longterm.

This is especially true when you see that you will be pulling 20kW easily for a decent sized mine in the future, as difficulty increases.

It depends on where your home is. Over the next few months, I expect we'll see people in Europe (who often have electricity costs above $0.20/kWh and high VAT) switch to datacenters built from the ground up for hosting bitcoin miners (like the one I'm building, which should charge less than $90/kW/mo or $0.125/kWh). However, if you already live in a place with cheap electricity (like West Virginia, $0.06/kWh), and if you don't have to rent a place just for your miners, then running at home could be a bit more economical as long as you don't place a high price on having a quiet and cool home. You can't get that many machines into your own home, though, so the bulk of the network hashrate (and the eventual hashrate equilibrium, I expect) will be running at around $0.125/kWh.

Immersion cooling will, unfortunately, have high capital costs. I would be surprised if they can get the capital costs down to a level where it can compete with air cooling for commodity hardware, especially if you have good datacenter design and a cool climate.

I think you are missing the point.

Over the longterm, the most important factor when calculating mining returns will be electricity price. If you are paying 20ct/kwh, you can get the cheapest equipment on the planet and still not make a profit.

Equally important is equipment and maintenance cost. This can be provided in the cheapest way possible, if the manufacturer builds a large quantity of (ideally)
efficient units and deploys them in a large scale to save on costs.
This could be an Allied Control Datatank container.
When building your miners for immersion cooling from the start, you save on costs for heatsinks, fans etc. and can deploy more chips per pcb.

Savings from scaling alone can easily account to another 20% cost reduction in comparison to sending individual people one miner at a time. (Which is the reason behind bulk customers getting better prices.)

The manufacturer can then plan his production more reliably, and offer the best prices available.

When negotiating for hosting of a 1MW container, which only needs electricity and internet connection, you will also be able to secure much lower hosting costs thand any individual at home.
(Think 4-6ct/kwh, or even less).


When hosting and purchasing equipment, the advantage lies in the numbers.
Therefore a fully maintained solution can have enormous advantages for individuals and peace of mind for manufacturers.

The company that gets the biggest orders from the deepest pockets will survive. Has little to do with difficulty more to do with lower power and higher density now.

Mining is affordable if miner manufacturers lower their prices.  Everytime the difficulty rises by X percent, the manufacturer needs to lower their price by an equal percentage or risk being priced out of the market.  The hardware company that can best afford to adapt to that is the one that will survive.

Because in the described scenario, mining at "home" would be unprofitable anyway.

That is the whole idea behind deploying together to save costs....


It is basically the same than buying hardware and hosting it in a datacenter, but this time spondoolies would try to get the best bulk purchase discounts available.
But please do describe to me how you will be competing with (possibly immersion cooled) equipment with the best W/GH ratio and lowest energy prices on the planet (let´s say 5ct/kwh) by the end of 2014.

and this is NEVER profitable for customers, so why bother.

Gen3 will probably be deployed within DC and managed by spondoolies, as by then individual mining could (should) be no longer profitable.
Customers would probably have the possibility in buying hosted GH by then.

However, this is still FAR in the future when taking into account "bitcoin time" and only one of many possibilities.

For this purpose and for possible large scale investors in Gen2 chips / devices the research at Allied Control will provide some experience with immersion cooling.

yup; all good. although it's quite a warm day today in Scotland so it's only showing ~1.37 at pool (1.43 in the UI) normally it's up over 1.5, and i reckon it'll get there when it gets cooler and darker later.

I had similar performance issue after I got the miner online with 1.4.6 firmware  ... still at ~1.26Th after 1 hour or mining with new firmware vs. ~1.4Th before firmware upgrade then ... I notice on the setting page that miner was reset to "slow fans, medium rate" instead of turbo mode.

Speed got back to ~1.4Th after setting turbo mode so check and save again your settings just in case.

glad you got it sorted mate. after update today, my own was a little slow to hook into pool, but it do so eventually.

Miner start working after power cycle.