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Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 560. (Read 1260354 times)

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500

Hosting companies DO NOT pass electricity savings to customers. if you compare prices in WA-they are essentially the same despite the fact that they pay 2c/electricity.
Electrical savings transmission simply does not WORK!
Sure it does. Ask advania in iceland how much they charge for power when you supply the fully populated container.
They pay 4 ct for power, they will bill you 5 ct.

Instant savings. Grin


advania quotes $160/mo per Sp-10, this is much much more than 5c/kw (it should be $44 in electricity /mo at this rate), so I don't know where you get your numbers.
Of course, they should charge small amount for everything else, but not 3 times more than electricity.
I hope you are just negligent in your reading, but as far as i know when you deploy your single sp10 you dont´ship it in a modular datacenter container, do you?
That would be one very lonely sp10 in one very empty shipping container.

You will obviously only get such low quotes when the ONLY thing they need to supply is electricity and internet.

dude, get of your high horse, not everyone wants to supply a whole container. I get a quote on hosting aggregation page here.
Please, i am not trying to be purposefully unfriendly, but the whole debate was around the topic of single customer vs large deployment.

That is the whole subject, large deployment either together or by one single customer is always cheaper than small deployment.

That is why it says "fully populated container" in my description, when claiming 5ct/kwh.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000


From tapeout to mass production can be done within seven weeks if everything goes OK
TO - beginning of March.

Tapeout to samples:

40nm, 28nm - 8 weeks
20nm - 4-5 months

Prove me wrong.

Quality 20nm - 4 to 5 months.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331

Perhaps, but they will have something for sale in July (batch 3) while you only have something in September.
Having something for sale sooner counts. What would you say to this? I am happy with my September Sp-30 purchase, but wish that you would have something in July-August.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509


From tapeout to mass production can be done within seven weeks if everything goes OK
TO - beginning of March.

Tapeout to samples:

40nm, 28nm - 8 weeks
20nm - 4-5 months

Prove me wrong.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331

Hosting companies DO NOT pass electricity savings to customers. if you compare prices in WA-they are essentially the same despite the fact that they pay 2c/electricity.
Electrical savings transmission simply does not WORK!
Sure it does. Ask advania in iceland how much they charge for power when you supply the fully populated container.
They pay 4 ct for power, they will bill you 5 ct.

Instant savings. Grin


advania quotes $160/mo per Sp-10, this is much much more than 5c/kw (it should be $44 in electricity /mo at this rate), so I don't know where you get your numbers.
Of course, they should charge small amount for everything else, but not 3 times more than electricity.
I hope you are just negligent in your reading, but as far as i know when you deploy your single sp10 you dont´ship it in a modular datacenter container, do you?
That would be one very lonely sp10 in one very empty shipping container.

You will obviously only get such low quotes when the ONLY thing they need to supply is electricity and internet.

dude, get of your high horse, not everyone wants to supply a whole container. I get a quote on hosting aggregation page here.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
That is a strange form factor.

Also, you can get 0.7W/GH even on a 55nm Bitfury chip (or an sp10 chip for that matter) , so i would say the pricy 20nm isn´t quite justified

Again, power efficiency matters more than process node. In fact, it is better to have lower consumption on a higher node, as you can always do a die shrink to improve even further.

I was also under the assumption that knc spent nearly $5 million in their 28nm NRE as they were paying massively for overtime and such.
I was further under the assumption that they claimed their 20nm NRE was around 3 times as much as their 28nm, so $ 7m might be a conservative estimate.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1024
Mine at Jonny's Pool
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
While the new Asicminer (Roxie) devices may have an attractive price, they also consumer more than double the power than an sp30 and still more than 30% more than an sp10.

As to wether they will eventually be shipped one day, that is another question.

It will also be a hassle fighting with the cable monsters´ tentacles (aka the cables), which you will most probably create once you deploy more than one 400GH device.
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
I can't resist it (1). Amateurs time:

... Due to production issues, RX-BOX will be delayed indefinitely ...
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
By the way: Do all p2pool nodes work "together" at generating a block on the blockchain, or is it every node for itself?
Edit: Obviously all p2pool nodes together.

Both. Each p2pool node generates its own block, but shares the winnings with all the other nodes. That's why p2pool is so important. It's a truly decentralized pool.

yup, stats page (again, thanks murdof) http://pool.centralcavern.uk:9332/static/ shows local hashrate, and global hashrate. <-no annoying music)
I've always mined DGM on small pools but after seeing murdof's own node, i got swayed... i'm looking to expand central cavern a bit into other altcoins too, but it is, just for fun really.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Hello my friend, I've missed you. Is it too boring at one of AM threads ?

None of those companies can match the price point of SP30 with current gen and Q3 planned hardware.

It has already been done.

http://shop.rockminer.com/goods.php?id=34

2880gh for 4btc.

P.S.: Due to production issues, RX-BOX will be delayed indefinitely. Customers who joined Project R60 will receive 6 units of Rocket Box instead of 4 units of RX-BOX.(For domestic China customers: 3 units of Rocket Box instead of 2 units of RX-BOX)

Now coming with a surprise delay + extra hardware spaghetti monsters for the same hashrate!
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
By the way: Do all p2pool nodes work "together" at generating a block on the blockchain, or is it every node for itself?
Edit: Obviously all p2pool nodes together.

Both. Each p2pool node generates its own block, but shares the winnings with all the other nodes. That's why p2pool is so important. It's a truly decentralized pool.
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units.
We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014.
We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms.
Clear enough ?

Is this still the case? Will there be any disclosure should there be any future collaboration with Allied Control? Through what means will Spondoolies utilize to show their transparency to the community if you should start hosting customer units on a larger scale? To think that Spondoolies have not and will not consider immersion cooling is ludicrous (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

I do not have any problem with your products, which have been reviewed with much praise. Instead, I am more concerned that there will be another Bitfury-like entity, who have the means to control the total network hash rate.

Gen3 will probably be deployed within DC and managed by spondoolies, as by then individual mining could (should) be no longer profitable.
Customers would probably have the possibility in buying hosted GH by then.

However, this is still FAR in the future when taking into account "bitcoin time" and only one of many possibilities.

For this purpose and for possible large scale investors in Gen2 chips / devices the research at Allied Control will provide some experience with immersion cooling.

Probably, very true.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500

Hosting companies DO NOT pass electricity savings to customers. if you compare prices in WA-they are essentially the same despite the fact that they pay 2c/electricity.
Electrical savings transmission simply does not WORK!
Sure it does. Ask advania in iceland how much they charge for power when you supply the fully populated container.
They pay 4 ct for power, they will bill you 5 ct.

Instant savings. Grin


advania quotes $160/mo per Sp-10, this is much much more than 5c/kw (it should be $44 in electricity /mo at this rate), so I don't know where you get your numbers.
Of course, they should charge small amount for everything else, but not 3 times more than electricity.
I hope you are just negligent in your reading, but as far as i know when you deploy your single sp10 you dont´ship it in a modular datacenter container, do you?
That would be one very lonely sp10 in one very empty shipping container.

You will obviously only get such low quotes when the ONLY thing they need to supply is electricity and internet.
hero member
Activity: 818
Merit: 1006
Hosting companies DO NOT pass electricity savings to customers. if you compare prices in WA-they are essentially the same despite the fact that they pay 2c/electricity.
Electrical savings transmission simply does not WORK!

Most hosting companies charge you two fees: one fee for capacity (per kW per month), and one fee for usage (per kWh). The capacity fee at traditional datacenters is usually around $130/kW/month (charged per peak kW), electricity usage not included. The usage fee is usually the local electricity rate, maybe plus a cent or two to account for cooling power and non-unity PUE.

The datacenter I'm building gets its electricity cheap enough that we give it away for free as part of the package. There are a lot of other costs that go into a datacenter -- rent, insurance, security, internet access, cooling, maintenance, and amortized capital costs, to name a few -- and those tend to affect the rates more than electricity costs in central WA.
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
But please do describe to me how you will be competing with (possibly immersion cooled) equipment with the best W/GH ratio and lowest energy prices on the planet (let´s say 5ct/kwh) by the end of 2014.
The immersion cooling is just about nearly pointless with Bitcoin mining. The only thing that its proponents bring to table are workarounds for lack of proper design and engineering. Immersion cooling with 3M engineered fluids only makes sense if there are real constraints on the cooled equipment: speed of light limitation, unusual complexity, high density, etc. None of that really matter for Bitcoin mining.

If your goal is low PUE then simply use typical evaporative cooling well known in chemical process engineering and refrigeration. Most of the required equipment is already available, all you'll need to do is bring a chemical/thermodynamic process engineer to the table with the PCB design engineer, who is already working for Spondoolies. Together they need to design a proper heat exchanger for the mining chips and the associated buck converters. I already asked Spondoolies if SP30 motherboard was designed for cutting into 15 smaller boards. Apparently not, probably because the PCB design engineer wasn't given this as a requirement. So they cut the heathsinks into 15 smaller pieces.

They need to conceptually invert that design: single large liquid heat exchanger and multitude of small PCBs hosting the hot chips is the way to go long term.

3M's profit margins on their immersion cooling fluids are so high, that they require scientific notation to fit in the spreadsheets. Just use common chilling/refrigeration equipment instead where the profit margins are in expressed in two digits.


We more or less agree with this analysis.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331

Hosting companies DO NOT pass electricity savings to customers. if you compare prices in WA-they are essentially the same despite the fact that they pay 2c/electricity.
Electrical savings transmission simply does not WORK!
Sure it does. Ask advania in iceland how much they charge for power when you supply the fully populated container.
They pay 4 ct for power, they will bill you 5 ct.

Instant savings. Grin


advania quotes $160/mo per Sp-10, this is much much more than 5c/kw (it should be $44 in electricity /mo at this rate), so I don't know where you get your numbers.
Of course, they should charge small amount for everything else, but not 3 times more than electricity.
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units.
We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014.
We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms.
Clear enough ?

Is this still the case? Will there be any disclosure should there be any future collaboration with Allied Control? Through what means will Spondoolies utilize to show their transparency to the community if you should start hosting customer units on a larger scale? To think that Spondoolies have not and will not consider immersion cooling is ludicrous (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

I do not have any problem with your products, which have been reviewed with much praise. Instead, I am more concerned that there will be another Bitfury-like entity, who have the means to control the total network hash rate.

This is still the case. We don't compete with our customers. Our business is producing and selling mining hardware and ASICs.
Our collaboration with Allied Control is due to customers requests. We got multiple requests for special blade like form factor more suitable for DataTank, based on RockerBox.
However, we still didn't start such a design since none of the prospect customers were actually willing to commit to the exploration phase of the NRE.

Guy
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250

p2pool is the way ahead, murdof helped me set up an EU node for www.centralcavern.uk
and you can play manic miner if you get bored watching your SP10's on the stats page   Grin
Smiley
You should have warned me about the annyoing and loud music.....

that's the fun part  Cheesy
ok, apologies for the annoying and loud music

 Cool
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