[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 580.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Collider on June 10, 2014, 03:46:43 AM

It is exponentially more difficult to deploy, needs more power than an sp10, doesn´t come with a PSU and takes up more space which transfers to higher hosting costs.
Management is also more difficult than with an easy web interface.

None of that is true besides having a better web interface if that matters to you.

Power usage is about on par with sp10.

It is not exponentially more difficult to deploy. Looks quite stackable.

Any good hosting will charge you per electricity usage not space. Not that you would need to host it as there should be no problem with noise if it only requires one or two large fans.

Collider

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It is exponentially more difficult to deploy, needs more power per GH than an sp10, doesn´t come with a PSU and takes up more space which transfers to higher hosting costs.
Management is also more difficult than with an easy web interface.

Have fun building your cable kraken with these.

It is a child´s toy.

raskul

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:42:27 AM

Admit it, that's a beautiful miner.

Bitmain have stopped making similar rigs due to the fact that they are now obsolete.
nuff said.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Guy Corem on June 10, 2014, 03:30:13 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:22:03 AM

What bogus numbers? Do you doubt AM sold ~8ph worth of chips or that they have 60ph worth of wafers in hand?

I'm not doubting any numbers provided by Friedcat. I'm doubting that the hash-rate will actually come online.
AM is playing and loosing catch-up game with Bitmain. Inferior ASIC, not relevant for Q3

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7227862

Quote from: friedcat on June 10, 2014, 02:59:38 AM

It hashes at 768gh with 0.85-0.92W/G without PSU.

Admit it, that's a beautiful miner.

Collider

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Seriously, if you don´t like pre-ordering then dont.

You will most likely be stuck with a technically inferior product with higher power draw and lower hashrate though.

This is the free market after all, and if there is demand for this, spondoolies will supply it.

They had in stock hardware of sp10s for a while, but as demand then increased, they aren´t able to produce any faster on such short notice.

Companys also need to be able to predict demand, and pre-orders are a great way of ensuring spondoolies will be able to ship the highest amount of rigs in the shortest time available.

If you don´t want a company doing pre-orders, that company will most likely end up mining with their own equipment. Is that what you prefer?

Also, AM Gen3 devices will not get much below 1w/GH at the wall, so yeah... seen that. Come Q3/Q4 they will be expensive doorstops.

Guy Corem

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:33:19 AM

Does that mean no preorder funds were used to fund september or previous batches?

For every batch we open, we use the revenues we got until that batch was opened and augment it with additional funding if needed.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Guy Corem on June 10, 2014, 03:27:13 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:22:03 AM

... And by doing so you are putting investor level risks on customers ...

Completely untrue and false. September batch is covered.
For every batch we open, we're covering it with the necessary financing.

Does that mean no preorder funds were used to fund september or previous batches?

Regardless of the funding, nonrefundable preorders are investor level risks.

Guy Corem

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:22:03 AM

What bogus numbers? Do you doubt AM sold ~8ph worth of chips or that they have 60ph worth of wafers in hand?

I'm not doubting any numbers provided by Friedcat. I'm doubting that the hash-rate will actually come online.
AM is playing and loosing catch-up game with Bitmain. Inferior ASIC, not relevant for Q3

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7227862

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:22:03 AM

Quote

July batch was very small, builds on samples. August batch is medium.

So my basic understanding is that you are are short the ~$5,000,000(guessing around $0.1/gh) you need for 3 months worth of chips and are using preorders to fund it. And by doing so you are putting investor level risks on customers.

Quote

We won't give actual numbers, just say that it's considerably less than AM advertised bogus numbers.

What bogus numbers? Do you doubt AM sold ~8ph worth of chips or that they have 60ph worth of wafers in hand?

er and your point is?

its called pre-orders for a reason...

these guys seem to be doing so in a manner of less then 3 month turn around unlike others

so....what am i missing in this argument that all pre-ordering is bad? (could have a point)

but if everyone (at one time or another) has done pre-orders..er kinda a moot point me thinks

Searing

Guy Corem

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 03:22:03 AM

... And by doing so you are putting investor level risks on customers ...

Completely untrue and false. September batch is covered.
For every batch we open, we're covering it with the necessary financing.

jimmothy

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Quote

July batch was very small, builds on samples. August batch is medium.

So my basic understanding is that you are are short the ~$5,000,000(guessing around $0.1/gh) you need for 3 months worth of chips and are using preorders to fund it. And by doing so you are putting investor level risks on customers.

Quote

We won't give actual numbers, just say that it's considerably less than AM advertised bogus numbers.

What bogus numbers? Do you doubt AM sold ~8ph worth of chips or that they have 60ph worth of wafers in hand?

raskul

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AM are dumping a gazillion PH on the network at lunchtime today, didn't you know?
and all their investors are thrilled about it.

(part of this statement is true)

Guy Corem

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 02:32:24 AM

Quote from: Guy Corem on June 10, 2014, 02:22:45 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 02:15:48 AM

Would 1 batch of preorders not be enough to fund the next 2 batches?

I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't understand the meaning of 3 months lead time.

I'l explain in details:

To finance September batch, I need to start paying from June
To finance October batch, I need to start paying from July
to finance November batch, I need to start paying from August

So I need to pay 3 batches in advance, before I'm able to sell "in stock" hardware and starting to get revenues.
btw: your precious AM system builders are taking pre-orders as well.

Guy

Did you not sell july batch before may? And august batch before june?

Maybe you can't fund the entire august batch with only july preorder funds but I really doubt you need the money for a september batch.

How much PH worth of chips could you buy with all the funds from preorders so far?

July batch was very small, It will be build with samples. August batch is medium.
We already paid for September ASICs and the batch size is fixed.
We won't give actual numbers, just say that it's considerably less than AM advertised bogus numbers.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Guy Corem on June 10, 2014, 02:22:45 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 02:15:48 AM

Would 1 batch of preorders not be enough to fund the next 2 batches?

I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't understand the meaning of 3 months lead time.

I'l explain in details:

To finance September batch, I need to start paying from June
To finance October batch, I need to start paying from July
to finance November batch, I need to start paying from August

So I need to pay 3 batches in advance, before I'm able to sell "in stock" hardware and starting to get revenues.
btw: your precious AM system builders are taking pre-orders as well.

Guy

Did you not sell july batch before may? And august batch before june?

Maybe you can't fund the entire august batch with only july preorder funds but I really doubt you need the money for a september batch.

How much SP30 worth of chips could you buy with all the funds from preorders so far?

Guy Corem

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 02:15:48 AM

Would 1 batch of preorders not be enough to fund the next 2 batches?

I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't understand the meaning of 3 months lead time.

I'l explain in details:

To finance September batch, I need to start paying from June
To finance October batch, I need to start paying from July
to finance November batch, I need to start paying from August

So I need to pay 3 batches in advance, before I'm able to sell "in stock" hardware and starting to get revenues.
btw: your precious AM system builders are taking pre-orders as well.

Guy

Bicknellski

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 02:15:48 AM

Quote

We don't have $27M.

Doesn't explain why you need 3 batches of preorders.

Would 1 batch of preorders not be enough to fund the next 2 batches?

Quote

The execution risk is virtually non existent.
The two other risks - BTC price and hash-rate are not under our control.

Virtually nonexistent seems a bit optimistic. Regardless the other two risks
are unnecessary and you could choose to avoid them by selling in stock.

Did you actually read what the guy from Spondoolies posted?

Seriously is he lying to you? Read the whole thing and comment don't cherry pick it.
He explains. I think you can measure if he is telling the truth on those facts right?

They sell units based on the same calculations each time... so if they do it more than once or twice or thrice same reason.

Seriously I get you want to warn people off of the pre-orders. I agree but you are not accepting their explanation what more do you want?

Code:

Already explained multiple times in the thread before. Will explain once again.
Put execution risk aside - the RockerBox / SP30 is a simple project. Die Shrink, same miner
concept as the SP10. The execution risk is virtually non existent.
The two other risks - BTC price and hash-rate are not under our control.

Why we can't finance in stock SP30:

Assume the following (not exact figure, just to get the idea):

- 3 months lead time on the ASICs and other long lead time components
- SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000
- Each month we want to produce 3,000 miners

We don't have $27M. Each customer can do his/her own calculation regarding the
BTC and has-rate risks and decide whether they want to take it or not.

jimmothy

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Quote

We don't have $27M.

Doesn't explain why you need 3 batches of preorders.

Would 1 batch of preorders not be enough to fund the next 2 batches?

Quote

The execution risk is virtually non existent.
The two other risks - BTC price and hash-rate are not under our control.

Virtually nonexistent seems a bit optimistic. Regardless the other two risks are unnecessary and you could choose to avoid them by selling in stock.

raskul

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Quote from: xstr8guy on June 10, 2014, 01:55:58 AM

Quote from: raskul on June 10, 2014, 01:47:39 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 01:42:54 AM

Quote

I don't have stock hardware. All the stock hardware was bought.

I mean why not sell sp30 in stock or even BTO?

Why put the additional unnecessary risks involved with preordering on your customers?

I'm a customer. I see no risk in this.

C'mon now, let's not be silly here. There is risk in every preorder. You see a low chance for failure because Spoondoolies has proven to be an upstanding company. But don't mistake that for zero risk.

And with a pre-order with a no-refund policy, the buyers have assumed all risk if a catastrophic failure occurs.

OK, i'll rephrase.

I'm a customer, I see no risk in buying any miner from this particular company.
Grin

Bicknellski

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Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 01:09:31 AM

Quote from: tzortz on June 10, 2014, 01:01:40 AM

Like whom, you mean?

Could be bitfury, asicminer, avalon, bitmain, innosilicon, knc, blackarrow or maybe a company that has yet to reveal itself.

Could be.

Given what Spondoolies has put out and given they meet deadlines... are you willing to wait if waiting is the option for a July or August miner from the competition? Will it be as good as a SP30? Hmmm tricky to say the least. Space / density etc have start playing on the operators now. You really have to wonder is worth all the cabling and stack vs a single box? Cooling? Power? Doing things at home is pretty much dead and the game is moving into ever larger and larger operations. I don't see how 100s of small designed rigs can keep paces with these Spondoolies designs space wise.

It is a risk. I agree don't buy pre-orders. Unfortunately I didn't even listen to myself and I jumped on the 2 x SP30s for August that I bought against the rule NEVER DO PRE-ORDERS. Love the Spondoolies team and all but it is a risk. Don't do it unless you know you can afford to lose every penny. That is only safe way to think about it. It is even more of risk to purchase other fabricators given the history.

Guy Corem

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Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs

Quote from: jimmothy on June 10, 2014, 01:42:54 AM

Quote

I don't have stock hardware. All the stock hardware was bought.

I mean why not sell sp30 in stock or even BTO?

Why put the additional unnecessary risks involved with preordering on your customers?

Quote from: xstr8guy on June 10, 2014, 01:55:58 AM

C'mon now, let's not be silly here. There is risk in every preorder. You see a low chance for failure because Spoondoolies has proven to be an upstanding company. But don't mistake that for zero risk.

And with a pre-order with a no-refund policy, the buyers have assumed all risk if a catastrophic failure occurs.

Already explained multiple times in the thread before. Will explain once again.
Put execution risk aside - the RockerBox / SP30 is a simple project. Die Shrink, same miner concept as the SP10. The execution risk is virtually non existent.
The two other risks - BTC price and hash-rate are not under our control.

Why we can't finance in stock SP30:

Assume the following (not exact figure, just to get the idea):

- 3 months lead time on the ASICs and other long lead time components
- SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000
- Each month we want to produce 3,000 miners

We don't have $27M. Each customer can do his/her own calculation regarding the BTC and has-rate risks and decide whether they want to take it or not.

Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 580. (Read 1260354 times)