[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming) - page 156.

georgem

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:58:20 PM

Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 06:53:17 PM

...

If only lead devs can make the application, what kind of centralized bullshit is this?
...

Not you specifically...'you', as in the project.

The team seems in general agreement and the vote is indicative of a yes, too. OK. We'll get on it and make an application.

We are Borg.

Then what were we arguing about the whole time.

You guys can join any "club memberships" you like, alone or in groups, just don't let that interfere with my dev'ing, or people who aren't interested.

coins101

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Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 06:53:17 PM

...

If only lead devs can make the application, what kind of centralized bullshit is this?
...

Not you specifically...'you', as in the project.

The team seems in general agreement and the vote is indicative of a yes, too. OK. We'll get on it and make an application.

We are Borg.

georgem

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:55:13 PM

Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 04:39:17 PM

Please vote

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14138999

bump

Hail Hydra

coins101

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 04:39:17 PM

Please vote

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14138999

bump

Hail Hydra

georgem

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:33:07 PM

Azure require you apply.

If anybody can apply for the addition of a coin, why hasn't this happened already?

If only lead devs can make the application, what kind of centralized bullshit is this?

Nobody is the king of spreadcoin.

Sure, direction of development is based on some form of meritocracy (whoever brings the most to the table, gets to indicate the direction),
but like in any true decentralized system, any participation or affiliation of any member, miner, node operator, etc.. is completely decided by themselves.

Again, if you coins101 or any other member want to apply for a partnership with microsoft, then please go ahead and do so.

But why exactly do you need "Devs to direct some attention away from development to get Spreadcoin on the Azure platform" ?

Sounds like there is some hidden catch to all this, Grin

No, I'm joking.

Please contact Microsoft, and ask if it is allowed to just loosely join as a "subset" of the spreadcoin community. Or if the microsoft borg-queen has more specific orders.
Anyway, we have tons of interesting stuff in the making, and microsoft will surely be interested in this.

coins101

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Quote from: rhinomonkey on March 08, 2016, 06:30:25 PM

...
The solution is to get rid of the other options! Cheesy

...

I already did that. You need to read the conditions at the bottom of the OP (like, you know, the small print). The vote is pretty much 100% yes, at this stage.

(I accidentally unignored you for a second, otherwise I wouldn't have commented).

coins101

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Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 06:40:05 PM

...

What I don't understand is why spreadcoin needs to make such a move "as a whole entity" to make this happen.
Is this an actual condition requested by microsoft? That lead devs need to follow suit?
....

We are Borg. Or Hydra. I forget sometimes.

Everything we do at this stage requires a team effort to make it happen, until the project gets to the point where it can sustain itself and we get a breakaway Classic Spreadcoin launching a takeover fork to introduce cryptonote or some other exotic nonsense.

minerpage

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:33:07 PM

so we are not pushing anyone into just going with Azure and therefore decentralization is 100% maintained.

I think this situation will become more clear as we take steps to look into the details. I never had only "hosting" nodes in mind, more like having access to a "hybrid" environment for running and developing applications. Hosting is only one aspect. The block chain has unique qualities, but doesn't replace traditional databases (relational, big data or otherwise). I've always seen it as a more complete environment for those who need it. You can also use Amazon AWS, IBM's Watson, various cloud and IoT providers. Again, only for people who need it, but it would be good to have a "leg up" by having some kind of integration agreement that doesn't require any special modifications, SPR can be whatever it wants to be: 100% decentralized.

georgem

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:22:12 PM

One of my customers has just signed up to move their users to Microsoft Office 365. About 30,000 people switching to the cloud. MS can do this sort of thing, switch on people by the millions onto their cloud offering. As Minerpage said, that's a lot of eyeballs looking at SPR, which is why Azure vet who goes on their platform as a recommended offering.

Does this mean we become centralized? Are you going to change the principle of one IP for every servicenode?

My best guess is that Azure will end up being too costly for servicenode operators. There are plenty of low cost cloud offerings out there that will be cheaper.

I see where you are coming from, and I understand all the motivations, calculations and goals involved. They make very much sense and fit in our plans.

What I don't understand is why spreadcoin needs to make such a move "as a whole entity" to make this happen.
Is this an actual condition requested by microsoft? That lead devs need to follow suit?

We are just a bunch of decentralized nodes.

And again, I have no problem whatsoever if some of those nodes decide they want to partner with microsoft.
So, go ahead!

I hope it's that easy!
You can even openly advertize that some of us are in fact "partnering" with microsoft. I have no problem with that.

coins101

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Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 06:21:54 PM

...

Why does this need to be an "all or nothing" decision?
..

It's not.

If this was an exclusive relationship, I wouldn't even bother suggesting it.

The issue here is this: Azure require you apply. That's it. It's not exclusive and nodes still get to chose where they run from, so we are not pushing anyone into just going with Azure and therefore decentralization is 100% maintained.

rhinomonkey

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Ni dieu ni maître

Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:12:38 PM

Quote from: rhinomonkey on March 08, 2016, 06:03:42 PM

....
P.S. Coins that wall isn't gone yet Tongue

After posting this, I'm putting you on ignore. I'm sure I said something about that, so unless everyone votes yes that's what I was going to do.

edit

The solution is to get rid of the other options! Cheesy

Ok, I'll stop detracting from substantial conversation. Back to work I go!

LucD88

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Quote from: stonehedge on March 08, 2016, 01:20:38 PM

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I'm trying my best to understand what the hell is going on here, as I really didn't see a shitstorm of such extent coming...

Now, I don't want to pick sides or get in between fights among some of you guys, but I think Stonehedge really raised some valid points. Truly opening up to the community by being transparent, involve (new) people, and admitting/solving setbacks is a great way to become stronger (as a project) and move forward.

Unlike many of you guys, I haven't been active in this topic on a daily basis. So I can't really say what's right and what's wrong. But whatever the outcome may be, I'm strongly convinced the Spreadcoin project will adapt and overcome!

However, Stonehedge, something that slightly bothers me coming from you... Really?

Quote from: stonehedge on March 08, 2016, 01:20:38 PM

...

Talk to people! Stop disappearing for weeks on end, start telling people what is happening and start sticking to your promises.

...

coins101

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Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: minerpage on March 08, 2016, 05:35:11 PM

....
EDIT: Partnership is probably not the correct term. More like cross promotion, you are listed as a "Value Added Solutions Provider" (or something like it)

...I just don't see the benefits our community is going to have, especially if true decentralization is our main goal.

..

One of my customers has just signed up to move their users to Microsoft Office 365. About 30,000 people switching to the cloud. MS can do this sort of thing, switch on people by the millions onto their cloud offering. As Minerpage said, that's a lot of eyeballs looking at SPR, which is why Azure vet who goes on their platform as a recommended offering.

Does this mean we become centralized? Are you going to change the principle of one IP for every servicenode?

My best guess is that Azure will end up being too costly for servicenode operators. There are plenty of low cost cloud offerings out there that will be cheaper.

georgem

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Maybe we can find a solution that makes all of us happy? Grin

Is it possible that all of you who want to "join azure" go ahead and create some sort of union and partner with microsoft (in a non-inclusive way),
while I (and all people who disagree or want to stay unattached) continue working with spreadcoin in the usual independent and nonpartisan way?

Why does this need to be an "all or nothing" decision?

You see, there are parts of our community that really don't want to have any business with microsoft and what it stands for.

So for spreadcoin to openly side with microsoft might immediately frighten away all those who disagree.

For me as lead dev it's one of the most important things that I stay as impartial and unbiased as possible.
I just create software. I don't want to have any partnerships with corporations, banks or governments.
But those entities (and the rest of the world) are ofcourse still free to use any software I create.
Also, you are free to have partnerships with those entities, but why should spreadcoin give up its unique freedom?

Do you see bitcoin enter partnerships with such entities?

Abou Talha

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Azure is good for the price ; but for the decentralization...
As I said, in this world, where the freemasons are governing, you can't expect a full decentralization. No one can destroy the freemasons, excepted the moudjahideens.

georgem

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Quote from: coins101 on March 08, 2016, 06:06:55 PM

No. It's a cloud offering. You can use it as a sandbox, but its like any other cloud environment. They just vet who goes on there.

You know, the way you said you might weed out who gets to go into the decentralized block explorer.

There is a giant difference though.

The altcoin taxonomy project will do reviews (kinda like a "consumer action group") to inform people about altcoins,
so that they can make an educated decision.

At no point in time do we have the power or intention to actually force our will on other servicenode operators.
They can install any coin they like, even coins we disagree with.

But the vetting process of microsoft goes much much farther than a simple suggestion, right?

They have the power and willingness to stop you from doing what THEY decided you shouldn't be doing.

coins101

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Quote from: rhinomonkey on March 08, 2016, 06:03:42 PM

....
P.S. Coins that wall isn't gone yet Tongue

After posting this, I'm putting you on ignore. I'm sure I said something about that, so unless everyone votes yes that's what I was going to do.

edit

coins101

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Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 05:50:54 PM

.....

So it's like a giant sandbox so to speak?

Not sure I like the sound of that...

No. It's a cloud offering. You can use it as a sandbox, but its like any other cloud environment. They just vet who goes on there.

You know, the way you said you might weed out who gets to go into the decentralized block explorer.

Quote from: georgem on January 22, 2016, 11:23:53 AM

...
Maybe we should take this into consideration right away and do some filtering about what coins we even want to "recommend for usage" within the decentralized blockexplorer.
...

That's exactly why we are doing this "altcoin taxonomy" project. Wink

I don't see the difference between what you said, and what Azure are saying.

rhinomonkey

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Ni dieu ni maître

Quote from: minerpage on March 08, 2016, 05:58:51 PM

Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 05:45:24 PM

I just don't see the benefits our community is going to have

Depends on point of view.

Those who see SPR as speculation tools: no benefit indeed.

Those who try to use crypto in the business world: plenty of benefits:

Increased Profile (standing) in the business world
Ready made solutions for applications
Increased adoption rates (first to market)
Build Track Record (implementations)
Real world solutions provider (we can list accomplishments)
Services and Consultations (who wants to try next)
Build continuous value (steady market value increase)
Worldwide wallet distribution (adoption by business users)
etc...

I just wrote this as I went. Given some extra time there will be a ton of other reasons why it would benefit the community. Again, depending on expectations and viewpoints. No crypto can survive long term without a sound economic plan. Speculation on exchanges only doesn't cut it. Real value comes from sustained business use, which in turn comes from adoption. The more the merrier Cool

I clearly see these benefits. I'm curious what an argument against it is - a formulated argument for why it would hurt decentralization.

As long as it doesn't hurt decentralization, I don't see a problem. In fact, I think it would possibly aid in attracting new people to the community... which will even out distribution of coins. Currently I think there are only a few buyers.

P.S. Coins that wall isn't gone yet Tongue

minerpage

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Quote from: georgem on March 08, 2016, 05:45:24 PM

I just don't see the benefits our community is going to have

Depends on point of view.

Those who see SPR as speculation tools: no benefit indeed.

Those who try to use crypto in the business world: plenty of benefits:

Increased Profile (standing) in the business world
Ready made solutions for applications
Increased adoption rates (first to market)
Build Track Record (implementations)
Real world solutions provider (we can list accomplishments)
Services and Consultations (who wants to try next)
Build continuous value (steady market value increase)
Worldwide wallet distribution (adoption by business users)
etc...

I just wrote this as I went. Given some extra time there will be a ton of other reasons why it would benefit the community. Again, depending on expectations and viewpoints. No crypto can survive long term without a sound economic plan. Speculation on exchanges only doesn't cut it. Real value comes from sustained business use, which in turn comes from adoption. The more the merrier Cool

Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming) - page 156. (Read 790391 times)