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Topic: [ANN] [XEL] :: XEL - The Decentralized Supercomputer :: - page 181. (Read 253624 times)

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
The great thing about an open source project like this is that any developer can take it any direction they'd like as long as the community adopts it.

I'm open to ideas other than the SNs, just keep in mind there are a lot of constraints that need to be met.  So if people have alternate solutions for how a distributed network can fully validate the POW / Bounty submissions without creating a bottleneck, please provide your ideas.

I've also pitched a couple of alternate ideas to EK, but really he's pretty busy right now so this would probably be the best opportunity to revisit this topic before he has time to work on the Core Server again.

One last thing...regardless of what we do, maybe it would be best to change the name of it...even in the current design it's not a SuperNode the way other blockchains think of it.  It's simply a Core Server node that has the ability to run the ElasticPL engine to validate POW / Bounty submissions.

The very short version:  A job requester would annotate an SSA form program (in a specific machine model resulting in a particularly structured (binary) flow graph)  with a simple liveness/reachability model so that miners could (quickly, and without running any example case inputs) verify the necessary complexity bound of the job's individual work task before selecting.  PoW solutions would operate a little differently (still using "per user" generated inputs incl nonce data, but basically hashing/checking "instruction by instruction" instead of at the end of each input run) so that PoW solution rates become uniform across jobs, being able to be found at any point mid-execution.  (PoW prize pool would probably also need to work a little differently, with any amount of proof-of-work certificates able to be submitted before a bounty is found, and the PoW pool being divided proportionally after.)  Bounty solutions would include an annotation of the original model with information about the eventual I/O relation, such that verifying the output submission can be reduced to an instance of a satisfiability problem.  Nodes (all of them) would validate solutions against this model. (They would still need to "re-run the program" by a symbolic interpretation, but could know that they are doing so in an optimally efficient way - effectively skipping any "unrelated loops" encountered.)  Jobs would always end after one bounty is found.

I'm summarizing a lot, but that is the basic idea.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right?

Yes, I just use the generic, age-old p2p terminology for any form of systematic recentralization, regardless of the trendy term-of-the-day for it.  (... which seems to vary month-to-month anymore.)

Quote
Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

I doubt it is something that would get sorted out before you guys proceed with the lite wallet launch.  It isn't entirely clear to me what the XEL transition plan is from there, though.... so maybe it is something that could be done after or maybe it is something where we'd be talking about a new, distinct network.
lite wallet will have "only" basic functions to redeem, receive and send XEL. fancy full client with SN, ElasticPL and such will get wrapped up later, or did i miss something?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right?

Yes, I just use the generic, age-old p2p terminology for any form of systematic recentralization, regardless of the trendy term-of-the-day for it.  (... which seems to vary month-to-month anymore.)

Quote
Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

I doubt it is something that would get sorted out before you guys proceed with the lite wallet launch.  It isn't entirely clear to me what the XEL transition plan is from there, though.... so maybe it is something that could be done after or maybe it is something where we'd be talking about a new, distinct network.
hero member
Activity: 621
Merit: 507
Radix-The Decentralized Finance Protocol
Dev algo  Huh Huh Huh Huh!!!!

Elastic uses PoS algorithm. And at the same time, it has PoW to solve tasks sent to the distributed network, but
it's not gonna be implemented in the first version of the release.

Developers:
Core: Evil-Knievel
Miner: coralreefer
Elastic forum, blockexplorer, faucet: unvoid
Elastic site: by rallier, clivemy

P.s. Ping me, if I forgot someone.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
Great to see a new post, good luck to the team cant wait for lightnetwork to be online as mainnet.

legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1334
just in case
can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


+1 @ImI

Most probably we will not be able to mine any block in BTC network but it's nice show-off of Elastic capabilities.

+1 I will add website as a blog post.
can somebody write content for this video for blog post?
hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


+1 @ImI

Most probably we will not be able to mine any block in BTC network but it's nice show-off of Elastic capabilities.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1334
just in case
https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/we-need-a-good-website/133/18?u=byrallier

@clivemy @unvoid @BeanutPutter @spaceMonkey
I need to some content:
-Why Elastic
-What is different other projects
-roadmap
-revised whitepaper
-faq (https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/faq-for-the-website/122)


could you change the logo at wallet.elastic.pw as well ? Also I don't see the warning " you're in Testnet....." when you go to the wallet page.

I will put elastic-light wallet. The logo change on it. When I upload elastic-light wallet, it will appear with new logo.
You don't see testnet warning because I was testing for mainnet with mainnet settings like SSL, ports etc.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Ben2016
https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/we-need-a-good-website/133/18?u=byrallier

@clivemy @unvoid @BeanutPutter @spaceMonkey
I need to some content:
-Why Elastic
-What is different other projects
-roadmap
-revised whitepaper
-faq (https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/faq-for-the-website/122)


could you change the logo at wallet.elastic.pw as well ? Also I don't see the warning " you're in Testnet....." when you go to the wallet page.
hero member
Activity: 1484
Merit: 505
how can I get my hands on XEL tokens?Huh
member
Activity: 110
Merit: 10
We bow in its aura
Hi, how can I get my hands on XEL tokens?
full member
Activity: 190
Merit: 100
Website updated :
- new logo applied
- new color applied
- new posts added (about logo and new ann thread)
- urls updated to secure urls (https links*)

https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/we-need-a-good-website/133/16?u=byrallier

So here's some txt for you that I've cobbled together for the website.  We might need EK to just check that it's accurate.

What is Elastic?[/b]/size]
What can Elastic do?
With Elastic, instead of specific use cases, a use case has to be coded by the user of the system in Elastic's own programming language - Elastic PL. It is similar to C but with limited functionality so it can be guaranteed that Elastic code can be executed on other machines without causing any harm. You can write a program in Elastic PL and be sure that if executed correctly, no exploits, no endless loops, no data leakage.

So while  Elastic is more flexible in designing tasks, it does not perform better for one particular use case over other systems. With other super computer models, If you want to do 6 different tasks you need 6 separate use cases. With Elastic you can do them all at once.  As the Elastic PL is further developed, so the diversity of tasks will become more complex.  Currently, only tasks which explore a search space can be performed, and not tasks which are divided into multiple packages (like rendering divides a large image into many smaller tiles).

Elastic PL will get better over time with the flexibility that Elastic PL provides.  The system is built and designed this way from ground up to allow user configurable tasks.  This makes Elastic the only system that currently offer this.  The potential of Elastic is basically limitless.

Other design features
The current system is absolutely trustless. That means that there is no central authority verifying anything (such as all BOINC based coins, which rely on an external service controlled by a single entity and which could become rogue and cripple the entire coin), so we at Elastic have to make sure every node in the network verifies work by itself.  To further act as a safeguard, Super Nodes check work processed by the nodes and a final level of security is in the Guard Nodes that check that the SuperNodes are doing their job.

So we have:
Normal nodes that broadcast unverified POW/bounties
Super nodes that verify work and broadcast the verified POW/bounties
Guard nodes that cross verify a certain percentage of the super node’s signed POW/bounties to detect malicious behaviour
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1334
just in case
https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/we-need-a-good-website/133/18?u=byrallier

@clivemy @unvoid @BeanutPutter @spaceMonkey
I need to some content:
-Why Elastic
-What is different other projects
-roadmap
-revised whitepaper
-faq (https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/faq-for-the-website/122)

hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
No. Still in progress. Soon ™
full member
Activity: 160
Merit: 100
is the lightwallet out yet ?
hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
Hi mprep,

We lost OP of our thread so we created new one and we want to close old one:

Old one is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.6800

Can you lock it? Thanks!
Unless you have access over the OP, I can't lock it.

So mod of this category (Announcements (Altcoins)) can't lock this thread for us. We just need to point people from old thread to new one.
sr. member
Activity: 464
Merit: 260
Dev algo  Huh Huh Huh Huh!!!!

WTF are you talking about?Huh  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

I'm talking about the algorithm

The algorithm is whatever the work author can dream up and code in ElasticPL...so XEL supports an infinite # of algorithms.
sr. member
Activity: 464
Merit: 260
Guess who's back in town?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/hunterminercrafter-245263
Does he know he is more than invited to visit?


Thanks! It is nice to be noticed!  Grin

I've been lurking, and still following the progress of XEL closely week to week.  Unfortunately I can't say that I've been particularly happy to see where it has been headed, personally.  IMO the decision to partially re-centralize with bonded master-nodes and the decision to launch a "lite wallet" token are both likely mis-steps.

Having 0 stake in XEL it is obviously not my business, but I had held high hopes... and now I have little but worry for E-K's work ever making it out into the world in a form that is anything like what he would have really intended.

I've been thinking a lot, lately, about a the idea of a relatively simple variant of the earlier XEL design which might address several of the concerns with the model, particularly with regard to the PoW rewards.  It would eschew a dedicated programming language, in favor of a machine model, but at the same time make for a more consistent work calculation and allow for some additional assurances.  It may not be something I ever pursue further but I am ever more convinced (though still not quite 100%) that the whole thing might even actually be possible after all.

I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right? Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

The great thing about an open source project like this is that any developer can take it any direction they'd like as long as the community adopts it.

I'm open to ideas other than the SNs, just keep in mind there are a lot of constraints that need to be met.  So if people have alternate solutions for how a distributed network can fully validate the POW / Bounty submissions without creating a bottleneck, please provide your ideas.

I've also pitched a couple of alternate ideas to EK, but really he's pretty busy right now so this would probably be the best opportunity to revisit this topic before he has time to work on the Core Server again.

One last thing...regardless of what we do, maybe it would be best to change the name of it...even in the current design it's not a SuperNode the way other blockchains think of it.  It's simply a Core Server node that has the ability to run the ElasticPL engine to validate POW / Bounty submissions.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Dev algo  Huh Huh Huh Huh!!!!

WTF are you talking about?Huh  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

I'm talking about the algorithm

There is still no question, information or actual point that I can see there.
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