[ANN] Zcoin (XZC) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup - page 312.

tomsmith26

hero member

Activity: 1148

Merit: 512

Quote from: zoin on November 18, 2016, 04:31:56 PM

Quote from: drays on November 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: Skirmant on November 18, 2016, 12:44:28 PM

Quote from: kamikaza on November 18, 2016, 09:11:32 AM

Guys, question. Is there any connection between zcoin and zoin?

It's just a fork of ZCoin

Its funny how this open-source thing works.

. Someone spent many months (if not years) developing something, then he publishes it as open-source, and in 1-5 days it is being copied and exploited, often without giving any credit to the original. I know open-source is good, but sometimes it is getting ridiculous. I am coming from closed-source business world myself, and though I like open-source, but sometimes I think there should be limits on that (maybe a grace period of few months/years before the source is opened).

Do you guys think those clones are harming the original or are good for it...? In a perfect world they should help (by working in parallel and finding and fixing issues), but in reality I am not sure...

I don't want to get involved in this thread, but you'll find quite the opposite.

ZCoin does not give credit to the Zerocoin developers (see Copyright statements in Github and GUI):

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/blob/master/README.md

90% of the work done in ZCoin for Zerocoin was from the Zerocoin library:

https://github.com/Zerocoin/libzerocoin

Zoin on the other hand, gives full credit to ZCoin (for their contribution) and ZeroCoin in the Copyright statements and GUI:

https://github.com/zoin/zoin/blob/master/README.md

there are two coins here (zcoin and zoin) it 's easily confused.

landslide

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 251

Quote from: drays on November 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: Skirmant on November 18, 2016, 12:44:28 PM

Quote from: kamikaza on November 18, 2016, 09:11:32 AM

Guys, question. Is there any connection between zcoin and zoin?

It's just a fork of ZCoin

Its funny how this open-source thing works.

. Someone spent many months (if not years) developing something, then he publishes it as open-source, and in 1-5 days it is being copied and exploited, often without giving any credit to the original. I know open-source is good, but sometimes it is getting ridiculous. I am coming from closed-source business world myself, and though I like open-source, but sometimes I think there should be limits on that (maybe a grace period of few months/years before the source is opened).

Do you guys think those clones are harming the original or are good for it...? In a perfect world they should help (by working in parallel and finding and fixing issues), but in reality I am not sure...

I dont think it is a problem. Usually the forked coin has a lot less market cap than the original one, also some clone coin does make improvements on the coin which advances our understanding. So nothing to worry about.

zoin

newbie

Activity: 47

Merit: 0

Quote from: drays on November 18, 2016, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: Skirmant on November 18, 2016, 12:44:28 PM

Quote from: kamikaza on November 18, 2016, 09:11:32 AM

Guys, question. Is there any connection between zcoin and zoin?

It's just a fork of ZCoin

Its funny how this open-source thing works.

. Someone spent many months (if not years) developing something, then he publishes it as open-source, and in 1-5 days it is being copied and exploited, often without giving any credit to the original. I know open-source is good, but sometimes it is getting ridiculous. I am coming from closed-source business world myself, and though I like open-source, but sometimes I think there should be limits on that (maybe a grace period of few months/years before the source is opened).

Do you guys think those clones are harming the original or are good for it...? In a perfect world they should help (by working in parallel and finding and fixing issues), but in reality I am not sure...

I don't want to get involved in this thread, but you'll find quite the opposite.

ZCoin does not give credit to the Zerocoin developers (see Copyright statements in Github and GUI):

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/blob/master/README.md

90% of the work done in ZCoin for Zerocoin was from the Zerocoin library:

https://github.com/Zerocoin/libzerocoin

Zoin on the other hand, gives full credit to ZCoin (for their contribution) and ZeroCoin in the Copyright statements and GUI:

https://github.com/zoin/zoin/blob/master/README.md

drays

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1073

Quote from: Skirmant on November 18, 2016, 12:44:28 PM

Quote from: kamikaza on November 18, 2016, 09:11:32 AM

Guys, question. Is there any connection between zcoin and zoin?

It's just a fork of ZCoin

Its funny how this open-source thing works.

. Someone spent many months (if not years) developing something, then he publishes it as open-source, and in 1-5 days it is being copied and exploited, often without giving any credit to the original. I know open-source is good, but sometimes it is getting ridiculous. I am coming from closed-source business world myself, and though I like open-source, but sometimes I think there should be limits on that (maybe a grace period of few months/years before the source is opened).

Do you guys think those clones are harming the original or are good for it...? In a perfect world they should help (by working in parallel and finding and fixing issues), but in reality I am not sure...

adhitthana

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ZimSET on November 17, 2016, 07:37:48 PM

Quote from: adhitthana on November 16, 2016, 10:34:07 PM

Quote from: JonLord on November 16, 2016, 05:53:16 PM

Are we touching the floor?

Total market cap once all 21 million coins are released is under $12M now I think.
So pricewise it's more reasonable, but still priced for success.

your forgetting that the final coin amount will be in around 9 years.. thats when we will have 21mil

from here it will take us 2months to go from 400k coins to 800k coins.

so give it 7months and we will have around a 800,000usd market cap. tiny for the tech, in comparison to what zcash will have.. around 300million

Market capilalisation is a measurement designed for equities not for crypto currencies. It is seriously flawed if one uses it to value crypto coins IMHO
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16910985

Skirmant

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Such is life in crypto paradise

Quote from: kamikaza on November 18, 2016, 09:11:32 AM

Guys, question. Is there any connection between zcoin and zoin?

It's just a fork of ZCoin

kamikaza

sr. member

Activity: 597

Merit: 250

Guys, question. Is there any connection between zcoin and zoin?

cmaxim23

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Quote from: zcoinofficial on November 17, 2016, 09:36:02 PM

We're looking for help with Chinese translations! Do pm me if you think you can help!

Russian is my first language, I can offer help with Russian translation. PM me please

Daniko7

full member

Activity: 424

Merit: 106

https://Newrewardcoins.com

Quote from: zcoinofficial on November 17, 2016, 09:36:02 PM

We're looking for help with Chinese translations! Do pm me if you think you can help!

I offer you German translation, if needed. just pm me if necassary...
thanks

zcoinofficial

sr. member

Activity: 1004

Merit: 268

Firo (FIRO)

We're looking for help with Chinese translations! Do pm me if you think you can help!

ZimSET

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Quote from: adhitthana on November 16, 2016, 10:34:07 PM

Quote from: JonLord on November 16, 2016, 05:53:16 PM

Are we touching the floor?

Total market cap once all 21 million coins are released is under $12M now I think.
So pricewise it's more reasonable, but still priced for success.

your forgetting that the final coin amount will be in around 9 years.. thats when we will have 21mil

from here it will take us 2months to go from 400k coins to 800k coins.

so give it 7months and we will have around a 800,000usd market cap. tiny for the tech, in comparison to what zcash will have.. around 300million

adhitthana

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jeremy grol on November 12, 2016, 06:47:57 AM

Quote from: phantagram on November 12, 2016, 06:41:14 AM

Quote from: solid12345 on November 09, 2016, 01:30:24 PM

Why won't Roger Ver even fire off a simple tweet about Zcoin? He's favorited one of my Zcoin tweets but he won't make a public statement of support himself.

You'd think a guy $500k invested in this thing would be a bit more proactive....

he realized he was scammed by indonesian vertcoin dev parapin who stole the work from a university colleague.

what a scam zcoin. the best scam of 2016.
Enjoy lambo paparin-poparin-ponjamin or what is your name.

I got all signs at beginning when price was 0.08 and after ONLY 20 days from launch 3 dev addresses were drained. when we asked to dev where those coins was sent the answers was "anon bounties"

Such scam.

How many coins were in those addresses?
As we can now see the size of bounties they are offering.

Quote from: zcoinofficial

Dev to help update Bitcoin core code to 0.13 2000 XZC
Develop open source pool software that supports MTP 3000 XZC
GPU miner with MTP algorithm 2000 XZC
CPU miner with MTP algorithm 1500 XZC

adhitthana

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JonLord on November 16, 2016, 05:53:16 PM

Are we touching the floor?

Total market cap once all 21 million coins are released is under $12M now I think.
So pricewise it's more reasonable, but still priced for success.

JonLord

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

Are we touching the floor?

ybelevi

member

Activity: 132

Merit: 10

hello,

i'm mining 2 xeon 2620, win 2016 srv server.cpu %69-70 is that normal? why cant i use all cpu
im useing ocminer's cpu miner

regards

marseille

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 500

Quote from: zcoinofficial on November 08, 2016, 05:09:18 AM

Other existing solutions utilize either coin mixing or ring signatures. Coin mixing in many current implementations involve a lot of trust on the mixer and rely on finding other people to mix with which can take time. Ring signatures are a lot better in that it finds similar transactions of similar denominations to mix with but it means that there's still an element of traceability since the real transaction path is still somewhere in there and other outside data and topological analysis may narrow this down further.

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/How-does-Zcoin-compare-to-other-anonymity-methods%3F

......

For coin mixing Supercoin uses multisig and the mixer/guarator are randomly chosen and system is completely trustless. Unfortunately I did not see further development of the tech, otherwise it could be a good one.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/supercoins-revival-1351548

Zer0Sum

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Activity: 1588

Merit: 1000

Quote from: drays on November 15, 2016, 05:04:02 PM

Quote from: Zer0Sum on November 12, 2016, 02:40:20 PM

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

Sure, you might be completely correct.

However... excuse my ignority, possibly this was discussed hundreds of times before, but could someone explain me what is specifically bad in botnets mining the coin?

I understand that is not fair, as they get the coin almost for free, and botnet owners are basically thieves. And also it is bad for regular miners, who have to spend much more hashrate to compete.
But what is the harm for the coin itself? The features (anon and everything else) works perfectly regardless of who is mining the coin - botnets or normal miners. Both botnets and regular miners are typically dumping their mined coins immediately, so there is no big difference between them for the coin price. If there is an appropriate demand, adoption, and the all the tech is working well, everything should be ok with the coin.. So what is the point in implementing MTP and banning botnets?

I am not implying anything, just curious

EDIT: ok, I gave it a bit more thought, and probably the bad thing in botnet mining is the possible centralisation (if most botnets belong to the same group of people), and hence the possibility of 51% attack..? Is this the thing?

I wasn't really trying to focus on MTP specifically...
But point out that the XZC team is still working out a lot of new, complex tech...
And is at least 6 months away from taking on the XMRs of this world.

Meanwhile, their web site and github postings and roadmap are excellent...
And the communication in this thread is daily and first class...
So nothing about this project sets off "short-term scam" alarms for me...
Maybe the anon area is getting a little crowded, but there will be several winners.

Just look at the #150 area of CMC...
That's a springboard zone where coins often make a yuge jump in 6-12 months...
How many of those would you like to own (I own XZC, COVAL, PSB)?

zcoinofficial

sr. member

Activity: 1004

Merit: 268

Firo (FIRO)

Quote from: drays on November 15, 2016, 05:04:02 PM

Quote from: Zer0Sum on November 12, 2016, 02:40:20 PM

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

Sure, you might be completely correct.

However... excuse my ignority, possibly this was discussed hundreds of times before, but could someone explain me what is specifically bad in botnets mining the coin?

I understand that is not fair, as they get the coin almost for free, and botnet owners are basically thieves. And also it is bad for regular miners, who have to spend much more hashrate to compete.
But what is the harm for the coin itself? The features (anon and everything else) works perfectly regardless of who is mining the coin - botnets or normal miners. Both botnets and regular miners are typically dumping their mined coins immediately, so there is no big difference between them for the coin price. If there is an appropriate demand, adoption, and the all the tech is working well, everything should be ok with the coin.. So what is the point in implementing MTP and banning botnets?

I am not implying anything, just curious

EDIT: ok, I gave it a bit more thought, and probably the bad thing in botnet mining is the possible centralisation (if most botnets belong to the same group of people), and hence the possibility of 51% attack..? Is this the thing?

You are right. Botnets tend to be controlled by a single entity which destroys centralization.

However, the implementation of MTP is not solely for banning botnets and there are other reasons such as it being 'progress-free' and also fast to verify.

Progress free means the mining process must be stochastic so that the probability to find a solution grows steadily with time and is non-zero for small time periods which can be argued to discourage centralization. For example with Equihash, it takes several seconds to get a proof that certifies the memory allocation which makes the algorithm not 'progress free' as the probability of finding a solution during the allocation time is zero.

Also although finding the solution should be memory hard (to be ASIC resistant), verifying the solution should be fast and require little memory to prevent DOS attacks on verifiers. Lyra the algo we are using now is pretty slow on verification.

zcoinofficial

sr. member

Activity: 1004

Merit: 268

Firo (FIRO)

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: zcoinofficial on November 15, 2016, 10:08:00 AM

Bounty list updated!

We want to make this coin a success and are upping our bounties!

Best way to talk to us is via slack! Join us here to get an invite: http://162.243.153.71:3000/

MARKETING AND COMMUNITY

Acceptance into any of the top darknet markets listed here https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-market-comparison-chart/ : 15000 XZC
Cross network marketing (at least 2 quality posts a day) 1500-2000 XZC / month

DEVELOPMENT

Dev to help update Bitcoin core code to 0.13 2000 XZC
Develop open source pool software that supports MTP 3000 XZC
GPU miner with MTP algorithm 2000 XZC
CPU miner with MTP algorithm 1500 XZC
GUI development to improve minting process Please contact devs or PM me.

Let me ask a simple question!
You guys added zerocoin into old code.
Why did not you use 13.x code in the first place??

Gui development? Basically copy paste and compile??
Too hard?

When development started on Zcoin, 13.x code was not available and it is not a trivial integration. Despite the Zerocoin whitepaper released and the libs released, our devs are the first to implement it which I think speaks volume as to the difficulty of the project.
If it was indeed a copy paste matter, then someone should grab that bounty ;P

drays

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1073

Quote from: Zer0Sum on November 12, 2016, 02:40:20 PM

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

Sure, you might be completely correct.

However... excuse my ignority, possibly this was discussed hundreds of times before, but could someone explain me what is specifically bad in botnets mining the coin?

I understand that is not fair, as they get the coin almost for free, and botnet owners are basically thieves. And also it is bad for regular miners, who have to spend much more hashrate to compete.
But what is the harm for the coin itself? The features (anon and everything else) works perfectly regardless of who is mining the coin - botnets or normal miners. Both botnets and regular miners are typically dumping their mined coins immediately, so there is no big difference between them for the coin price. If there is an appropriate demand, adoption, and the all the tech is working well, everything should be ok with the coin.. So what is the point in implementing MTP and banning botnets?

I am not implying anything, just curious

EDIT: ok, I gave it a bit more thought, and probably the bad thing in botnet mining is the possible centralisation (if most botnets belong to the same group of people), and hence the possibility of 51% attack..? Is this the thing?

Topic: [ANN] Zcoin (XZC) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup - page 312. (Read 663307 times)