Topic: [ANN][0.8.6] Hirocoin - X11 - NGW - Secured Blockchain - Time Warp Limitation - page 14. (Read 271680 times)
June 11, 2014, 12:53:27 AM
Block Reward Modification Proposal
The current block reward of 400 HIRO every 60 seconds is set to produce 576,000 HIRO a day. My proposal is to stray from the fixed block reward scheme and have a dynamic block reward dependent on difficulty which would also lead to a dynamic coin supply.
The dynamic block reward scheme would be the inverse of what Darkcoin had implemented. They have a max block reward of 25 and minimum of 5. Their reward decreases with difficulty creating scarcity as the network hashrate increases. The proposal’s new scheme would have our reward increase as difficulty increased and decrease as it fell. This would create scarcity when the network hashrate and difficulty are low. We would do the opposite and have a max block reward of 400 (our original reward) and minimum of 80.
The benefits of a decreasing block reward when difficulty is decreasing is that the supply of HIRO falls when hashrate falls. Network hashrate is a good indicator of coin support and miner interest so we can prevent oversaturating the market with HIRO when overall support for the coin is low. This makes recovering from lows in overall support as we’d be producing at approximate 80 HIRO per block. This would result in 115,200 HIRO produced daily which at the time of writing this would require 0.144 BTC to purchase all HIRO produced daily. This is a tiny number compared to other cryptocurrencies and this gives us an advantage in the stabilization of our price.
The benefits of an increasing block reward as difficulty climbs is that we begin to produce more HIRO to accommodate for the new generated interest. Just like a supplier produces more products when there is more demand we will increase our supply to accommodate. This key point of this feature is to prevent a large cut in our total supply and to prevent market manipulation. As previously stated at 80 HIRO per block, it won’t take much to buy the current day’s production of HIRO. This means that someone could purchase several day’s worth of HIRO and wreak havoc on the market with swings or “pump and dumps”. The increase block reward allows for more HIRO to be produced to compensate for any large buys as naturally miners will move to the most profitable coin. If a large buy order went through and tripled HIRO’s value, miners would flock to mine HIRO and increase the network difficulty and bring more HIRO into the market. They would then sell their HIRO to bridge the supply and demand gap. In the case that they sell so much HIRO that we are back to our original price or below, they will most likely leave to mine another coin. This would drop our network difficulty and block reward and make it easy to prevent any further dumping. This would also make it easier to move to a higher price level as the HIRO entering the market would drop also.
In basic economic terms we would be cutting the supply when demand is low to maintain the same price and increasing the supply when demand is high to maintain the same price. This would give us an inherit defensive mechanism in price stabilization.
A more refined proposal will be written with graphs, game theory, figures and numerical examples.
June 10, 2014, 11:47:54 PM
/1n4KzjK]Click to watch on YouTube
Enjoy ! I made this for free for the Hirocoin community.
You can thank me by following me on twitter and retweeting the tweet with this video
Unfortunately I don't have a twitter account to retweet
Where's your hiro address? I want to sent some hiros your way.
Thank you!
June 10, 2014, 10:10:49 PM
I think a more pressing concern regarding the block reward is our PoW algorithm itself, when HIRO launched X11 was a new PoW algorithm, there were no multipools or big farms exploiting it, now its been a while that there are both, so mining income is centralized - and at the hands of people that instantly dump it for quick cash. We need to change algo.
pretty please?
June 10, 2014, 09:53:18 PM
Click to watch on YouTube
Enjoy ! I made this for free for the Hirocoin community.
You can thank me by following me on twitter and retweeting the tweet with this video
June 10, 2014, 09:25:58 PM
I'll be coming up with a more revised model of what I'll propose to the rest of our development team regarding a block reward change and dynamic coin supply determined by difficulty. This will be included in the upcoming whitepaper if we agree that this is a desirable solution.
Thanks! Will be waiting for more details regarding how that will work.
June 10, 2014, 09:08:36 PM
I'll be coming up with a more revised model of what I'll propose to the rest of our development team regarding a block reward change and dynamic coin supply determined by difficulty. This will be included in the upcoming whitepaper if we agree that this is a desirable solution.
June 10, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
There's a real opportunity right now to bring to light what a decent and non-scammy dev team we have in Hirocoin. There's been a long list of coins and groups that have stolen a lot of money from unsuspecting miners and investors recently - the time for coins like Hiro to shine has come. But...
If we don't take this opportunity by the horns and reinvent the coin's image and its offerings, we're the foolish ones. As many of us said in previous posts, the hirocoin team has a reputation of being stubborn and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape (not meant as a dig, more as an observation). It's not about changing the coin's specs on a whim as some people have cautioned - it's about having more information today than you did 3 months ago, 2 months ago, 1 month ago. Let's use this information to our advantage and at least *try* to do what we can to make hirocoin a premiere coin now. Let's not hope for BTC to peak or some other external factor to give this coin life.
There are people in this thread who are far smarter and more experienced than I am about what it'll take to jumpstart Hirocoin again. All I feel comfortable offering is the +1 to being open-minded and to be willing to try a mostly good idea rather than not doing anything because it's not perfect. People often watch the world pass by because they wait for that one golden solution that will address every possible problem and permutation. This is unrealistic. It's about going with the best prospect in the window of time we have.
If we don't take this opportunity by the horns and reinvent the coin's image and its offerings, we're the foolish ones. As many of us said in previous posts, the hirocoin team has a reputation of being stubborn and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape (not meant as a dig, more as an observation). It's not about changing the coin's specs on a whim as some people have cautioned - it's about having more information today than you did 3 months ago, 2 months ago, 1 month ago. Let's use this information to our advantage and at least *try* to do what we can to make hirocoin a premiere coin now. Let's not hope for BTC to peak or some other external factor to give this coin life.
There are people in this thread who are far smarter and more experienced than I am about what it'll take to jumpstart Hirocoin again. All I feel comfortable offering is the +1 to being open-minded and to be willing to try a mostly good idea rather than not doing anything because it's not perfect. People often watch the world pass by because they wait for that one golden solution that will address every possible problem and permutation. This is unrealistic. It's about going with the best prospect in the window of time we have.
Very well said.
June 10, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
There's a real opportunity right now to bring to light what a decent and non-scammy dev team we have in Hirocoin. There's been a long list of coins and groups that have stolen a lot of money from unsuspecting miners and investors recently - the time for coins like Hiro to shine has come. But...
If we don't take this opportunity by the horns and reinvent the coin's image and its offerings, we're the foolish ones. As many of us said in previous posts, the hirocoin team has a reputation of being stubborn and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape (not meant as a dig, more as an observation). It's not about changing the coin's specs on a whim as some people have cautioned - it's about having more information today than you did 3 months ago, 2 months ago, 1 month ago. Let's use this information to our advantage and at least *try* to do what we can to make hirocoin a premiere coin now. Let's not hope for BTC to peak or some other external factor to give this coin life.
There are people in this thread who are far smarter and more experienced than I am about what it'll take to jumpstart Hirocoin again. All I feel comfortable offering is the +1 to being open-minded and to be willing to try a mostly good idea rather than not doing anything because it's not perfect. People often watch the world pass by because they wait for that one golden solution that will address every possible problem and permutation. This is unrealistic. It's about going with the best prospect in the window of time we have.
If we don't take this opportunity by the horns and reinvent the coin's image and its offerings, we're the foolish ones. As many of us said in previous posts, the hirocoin team has a reputation of being stubborn and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape (not meant as a dig, more as an observation). It's not about changing the coin's specs on a whim as some people have cautioned - it's about having more information today than you did 3 months ago, 2 months ago, 1 month ago. Let's use this information to our advantage and at least *try* to do what we can to make hirocoin a premiere coin now. Let's not hope for BTC to peak or some other external factor to give this coin life.
There are people in this thread who are far smarter and more experienced than I am about what it'll take to jumpstart Hirocoin again. All I feel comfortable offering is the +1 to being open-minded and to be willing to try a mostly good idea rather than not doing anything because it's not perfect. People often watch the world pass by because they wait for that one golden solution that will address every possible problem and permutation. This is unrealistic. It's about going with the best prospect in the window of time we have.
June 10, 2014, 08:50:21 AM
Get ready for walls of text and economic discussion.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
So you are basically suggesting the reversed model of what DarkCoin is doing and what has proven very successful? More net hashpower - higher block rewards, less hashpower -lower block rewards? Frankly speaking I cannot predict how that will turn out. My estimation is that it will result in big swings in net hashrate and not really help much with anything, although if on average there are less coins being produced overall, then it can't be worse than the current situation.
What I don't understand is why you are not willing to revise the total coin supply? If you take DRK for example it started as an 84 mil total supply coin which was adjusted significantly later on. People in crypto are accustomed to these kind of changes and pretty much consider them normal. If DRK can be successful with almost 2mil instamine, then I am sure that Hiro can be successful as well with some changes to the supply curve. Nobody will accuse you of scaming or not being fair or whatever, just make sure you give people enough time to still mine after you announce and before you make the changes and everyone will be happy and especially the people who held their Hirocoins and supported you through thick and thin.
Do not waste your energy, I proposed reduction of total coin supply 2 months ago and I was bashed by almost every single so-called Hiro developer. Well, with this price we can expect de-listing from exchanges to start very soon. Good thing I sold my coins. ALWAYS listen to your community cause if you do not, they go somewhere else.
June 10, 2014, 08:07:57 AM
Get ready for walls of text and economic discussion.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
So you are basically suggesting the reversed model of what DarkCoin is doing and what has proven very successful? More net hashpower - higher block rewards, less hashpower -lower block rewards? Frankly speaking I cannot predict how that will turn out. My estimation is that it will result in big swings in net hashrate and not really help much with anything, although if on average there are less coins being produced overall, then it can't be worse than the current situation.
What I don't understand is why you are not willing to revise the total coin supply? If you take DRK for example it started as an 84 mil total supply coin which was adjusted significantly later on. People in crypto are accustomed to these kind of changes and pretty much consider them normal. If DRK can be successful with almost 2mil instamine, then I am sure that Hiro can be successful as well with some changes to the supply curve. Nobody will accuse you of scaming or not being fair or whatever, just make sure you give people enough time to still mine after you announce and before you make the changes and everyone will be happy and especially the people who held their Hirocoins and supported you through thick and thin.
June 10, 2014, 07:55:19 AM
Hello to all.I have been lurking for a very long time in BCT, and this is the first time I'm posting therefore don't criticize me.
I have a suggestion.Why not reduce the total number of coins from 672m to ~100m or less(The coins will be 6 time rarer and the price will rise accordingly (IMO).I think the existing investors would appreciate it) and especially number of coins per block from 400 to 100 or less (the price can't sustain 576000 coins per day with such a low volume as ours cause it's became one of the most profitable coins to "mine and dump" by multipools.Marketcap for this coin didn't fell in the past month, what’s more, it rose a little ).Then why the price fell more than 250% and continue to fall?.Soon enough it will be less then 100 sat
It's a great coin with excellent developer team and great community.
It would be a shame that this great coin dies but shitcoins continue to live.We all know that the price is a main driving force of any coin.
I want to know what the developer team and especially the community thinks about this, maybe make a poll or something.
I hope I put up my thoughts correctly because English is not my first or second language
Just my 2 hiros
Thank you
I have a suggestion.Why not reduce the total number of coins from 672m to ~100m or less(The coins will be 6 time rarer and the price will rise accordingly (IMO).I think the existing investors would appreciate it) and especially number of coins per block from 400 to 100 or less (the price can't sustain 576000 coins per day with such a low volume as ours cause it's became one of the most profitable coins to "mine and dump" by multipools.Marketcap for this coin didn't fell in the past month, what’s more, it rose a little ).Then why the price fell more than 250% and continue to fall?.Soon enough it will be less then 100 sat
It's a great coin with excellent developer team and great community.
It would be a shame that this great coin dies but shitcoins continue to live.We all know that the price is a main driving force of any coin.
I want to know what the developer team and especially the community thinks about this, maybe make a poll or something.
I hope I put up my thoughts correctly because English is not my first or second language
Just my 2 hiros
Thank you
As I predicted.
Why don't you fork and make it merge mineable with DRK?
Instead of the other way around, you were proposing on your own forum.
Who in the world wants to mine one shitcoin and get more of some other even more worthless shitcoin on top for free.
If HIRO would be a by-product of DRK mining it would give it a nice lift for sure.
Instead of the other way around, you were proposing on your own forum.
Who in the world wants to mine one shitcoin and get more of some other even more worthless shitcoin on top for free.
If HIRO would be a by-product of DRK mining it would give it a nice lift for sure.
Nobody outside of crypto cares about merge mining. Look at the Blake ecosystem, look at Vertcoin and Monocle and you will see that these are just the kind of "innovations" for which the outside world does not care about. Hiro thinks people will come running to his coin when scrypt assics roll in big numbers... that could have been true if you were the only X11 coin but there will be more and more x11 and x13 coins coming not to mention Scrypt-N and all the Vertcoin clones. X11 in it's own is not enough to make a coin worth mining. You need to add something that will be valuable to people and that will differentiate your coin from others. Vertcoin for example is loosing value by the day because it's 2 biggest USPs are 2 things that nobody outside of crypto cares about: Asics resistance and merge mining and on top of that has a terrible inflation. Hiro at the moment is poor, poor men's Vertcoin, similar to execoin and a few others. You need to think big and give the market what it wants if you are to be successful. If you are going to wait for Bitcoin to hit it's peak, so hopefully people notice your coin, then you might as well declare it dead already.
You can't compare what happened to LTC to the current situation because the number of coins that people can now choose from is much much bigger. At the moment Hirocoin is one of the big losers. Hell even Piggycoin will soon have at least 5 times bigger marketcap because they decided to follow the market trends.
You read my mind. I was about to say that.
June 10, 2014, 06:29:06 AM
You are right, I'm not really a fan of merged mining.
But in this case its a bit different.
HIRO would be the first coin to build on the DRK system.
And its a total fit, as HIRO was the first coin to implement X11.
Not to mention the interchange between developers, what an advantage.
I see that couple as the perfect contender for BTC/LTC.
But in this case its a bit different.
HIRO would be the first coin to build on the DRK system.
And its a total fit, as HIRO was the first coin to implement X11.
Not to mention the interchange between developers, what an advantage.
I see that couple as the perfect contender for BTC/LTC.
June 10, 2014, 06:04:55 AM
Why don't you fork and make it merge mineable with DRK?
Instead of the other way around, you were proposing on your own forum.
Who in the world wants to mine one shitcoin and get more of some other even more worthless shitcoin on top for free.
If HIRO would be a by-product of DRK mining it would give it a nice lift for sure.
Instead of the other way around, you were proposing on your own forum.
Who in the world wants to mine one shitcoin and get more of some other even more worthless shitcoin on top for free.
If HIRO would be a by-product of DRK mining it would give it a nice lift for sure.
Nobody outside of crypto cares about merge mining. Look at the Blake ecosystem, look at Vertcoin and Monocle and you will see that these are just the kind of "innovations" for which the outside world does not care about. Hiro thinks people will come running to his coin when scrypt assics roll in big numbers... that could have been true if you were the only X11 coin but there will be more and more x11 and x13 coins coming not to mention Scrypt-N and all the Vertcoin clones. X11 in it's own is not enough to make a coin worth mining. You need to add something that will be valuable to people and that will differentiate your coin from others. Vertcoin for example is loosing value by the day because it's 2 biggest USPs are 2 things that nobody outside of crypto cares about: Asics resistance and merge mining and on top of that has a terrible inflation. Hiro at the moment is poor, poor men's Vertcoin, similar to execoin and a few others. You need to think big and give the market what it wants if you are to be successful. If you are going to wait for Bitcoin to hit it's peak, so hopefully people notice your coin, then you might as well declare it dead already.
You can't compare what happened to LTC to the current situation because the number of coins that people can now choose from is much much bigger. At the moment Hirocoin is one of the big losers. Hell even Piggycoin will soon have at least 5 times bigger marketcap because they decided to follow the market trends.
June 10, 2014, 05:19:17 AM
Why don't you fork and make it merge mineable with DRK?
Instead of the other way around, you were proposing on your own forum.
Who in the world wants to mine one shitcoin and get more of some other even more worthless shitcoin on top for free.
If HIRO would be a by-product of DRK mining it would give it a nice lift for sure.
Instead of the other way around, you were proposing on your own forum.
Who in the world wants to mine one shitcoin and get more of some other even more worthless shitcoin on top for free.
If HIRO would be a by-product of DRK mining it would give it a nice lift for sure.
June 09, 2014, 04:57:34 PM
This!
Thank you for considering my suggestion. We agree on something, that's great.
I completely support that.
Maybe we can use that in the marketing front.
Hi! First of all I want to thank you for all the hard work you are doing for Hiro and taking time to write here.I can't speak for everyone, but for me I never doubted in Hiro Dev team commitment and integrity, otherwise I would've never bothered to write here in the first place.
I know what coin you're referring to, but that coin has a very large community compared to Hiro, and capitalized on a internet meme in the peak of cryptocraze.I'm again coming to my earlier saying that a coin is all about the community, that's why the dev team should consider and accommodate its needs and suggestions, adapt to market forces to make it.
Can I ask you a question?
Why the price fell more then ~3800% from ATH but marketcap fell 300%,that's unproportional, the price fell ~30 time more then marketcap. if it's not a market flooding then I don't know what is. Demand can't keep up with this amount of coins flooding the market.The market is saturated.That's why I suggested to at least reduce the block reward or maybe dynamic block reward and Omar revised and supports it, I want to know what you think about that.
The majority(if not all) are here to make money and alt forum became cesspit of greed, fraud, aggressive marketing that is stifling the honest coins like Hiro unfortunately.We need to change our policy to survive.
Regards
Get ready for walls of text and economic discussion.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
Thank you for considering my suggestion. We agree on something, that's great.
I completely support that.
Maybe we can use that in the marketing front.
There are others with a similiar supply to ours but a much better market value. It is not the supply that is the problem but the demand for it which we can change. People do not believe that we are committed to longevity.
On my list of projects for Hirocoin.
Create an API. This can be used to get the price of Hiro, generate QR codes and get various stats. This can then be used by merchants and other services.
Point of Sale page. This will pull from the API. Vendors can enter in their address and fiat type. Then they can enter in the amount in their currency, press a button and get a QR code which will can be used to pay at the counter.
Android and iPhone wallets. This works well with the PoS page above. With these apps people can scan QR codes and pay at the counter.
I believe all of the above are important for merchant adoption and increase the demand for Hirocoin.
On my list of projects for Hirocoin.
Create an API. This can be used to get the price of Hiro, generate QR codes and get various stats. This can then be used by merchants and other services.
Point of Sale page. This will pull from the API. Vendors can enter in their address and fiat type. Then they can enter in the amount in their currency, press a button and get a QR code which will can be used to pay at the counter.
Android and iPhone wallets. This works well with the PoS page above. With these apps people can scan QR codes and pay at the counter.
I believe all of the above are important for merchant adoption and increase the demand for Hirocoin.
Hi! First of all I want to thank you for all the hard work you are doing for Hiro and taking time to write here.I can't speak for everyone, but for me I never doubted in Hiro Dev team commitment and integrity, otherwise I would've never bothered to write here in the first place.
I know what coin you're referring to, but that coin has a very large community compared to Hiro, and capitalized on a internet meme in the peak of cryptocraze.I'm again coming to my earlier saying that a coin is all about the community, that's why the dev team should consider and accommodate its needs and suggestions, adapt to market forces to make it.
Can I ask you a question?
Why the price fell more then ~3800% from ATH but marketcap fell 300%,that's unproportional, the price fell ~30 time more then marketcap. if it's not a market flooding then I don't know what is. Demand can't keep up with this amount of coins flooding the market.The market is saturated.That's why I suggested to at least reduce the block reward or maybe dynamic block reward and Omar revised and supports it, I want to know what you think about that.
The majority(if not all) are here to make money and alt forum became cesspit of greed, fraud, aggressive marketing that is stifling the honest coins like Hiro unfortunately.We need to change our policy to survive.
Regards
June 09, 2014, 05:10:55 AM
There are others with a similiar supply to ours but a much better market value. It is not the supply that is the problem but the demand for it which we can change. People do not believe that we are committed to longevity.
On my list of projects for Hirocoin.
Create an API. This can be used to get the price of Hiro, generate QR codes and get various stats. This can then be used by merchants and other services.
Point of Sale page. This will pull from the API. Vendors can enter in their address and fiat type. Then they can enter in the amount in their currency, press a button and get a QR code which will can be used to pay at the counter.
Android and iPhone wallets. This works well with the PoS page above. With these apps people can scan QR codes and pay at the counter.
I believe all of the above are important for merchant adoption and increase the demand for Hirocoin.
On my list of projects for Hirocoin.
Create an API. This can be used to get the price of Hiro, generate QR codes and get various stats. This can then be used by merchants and other services.
Point of Sale page. This will pull from the API. Vendors can enter in their address and fiat type. Then they can enter in the amount in their currency, press a button and get a QR code which will can be used to pay at the counter.
Android and iPhone wallets. This works well with the PoS page above. With these apps people can scan QR codes and pay at the counter.
I believe all of the above are important for merchant adoption and increase the demand for Hirocoin.
With all due respect, I believe you are missing the big picture. You need to create liquidity first and only then will merchants start to notice your coin and will want to accept it. Hiro at the moment is around $50k market cap meaning it will be a complete waste of time for any merchant to integrate it, since the potential revenue impact is so incredibly small. If you think you have a few years to develop on your own pace then you are wrong. You need to grab the bull by the horns and be a leader in this space and not a spectator. From recent developments it's obvious that people are more willing to put their hard-earned money in coins with fast initial distribution. It's also obvious that people care about anonymity to such an extend that they are even willing to bet on the lowest of scam coins for the slight chance of some innovation in regards to anonymity.
Why don't you reduce the coin supply and go into the only direction that Bitcoin does not want to go, which is anonymity? Even if the anon trend ends sooner rather than later, then you would still have one extra feature that is valued by potential buyers.
At the moment Hiro is just another coin without a purpose and this is reflected in the price. You need to get people interested, you need to ride the wave of interest and stay on top of it by offering people what they want and NOT what YOU THINK they want. Get this coin to 2-3mil market cap and you can be sure that merchants will start noticing it and that adoption will switch to a new gear.
You don't have the time that you think you have, it's a wolf-eat-wolf world and if you just sit back and wait for something to happen, then other coins will be so much ahead that you won't be even able to see them anymore. You need to make things happen and you need to make them happen fast or you are just wasting your talents.
June 09, 2014, 03:44:58 AM
There are others with a similiar supply to ours but a much better market value. It is not the supply that is the problem but the demand for it which we can change. People do not believe that we are committed to longevity.
On my list of projects for Hirocoin.
Create an API. This can be used to get the price of Hiro, generate QR codes and get various stats. This can then be used by merchants and other services.
Point of Sale page. This will pull from the API. Vendors can enter in their address and fiat type. Then they can enter in the amount in their currency, press a button and get a QR code which will can be used to pay at the counter.
Android and iPhone wallets. This works well with the PoS page above. With these apps people can scan QR codes and pay at the counter.
I believe all of the above are important for merchant adoption and increase the demand for Hirocoin.
On my list of projects for Hirocoin.
Create an API. This can be used to get the price of Hiro, generate QR codes and get various stats. This can then be used by merchants and other services.
Point of Sale page. This will pull from the API. Vendors can enter in their address and fiat type. Then they can enter in the amount in their currency, press a button and get a QR code which will can be used to pay at the counter.
Android and iPhone wallets. This works well with the PoS page above. With these apps people can scan QR codes and pay at the counter.
I believe all of the above are important for merchant adoption and increase the demand for Hirocoin.
June 08, 2014, 10:42:08 PM
Get ready for walls of text and economic discussion.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 874,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
I really like the idea of more miners more reward, as it goes more with what inflation is used in reality. Basically more adoption means we need to produce more. I suspect such a reward algorithm could be relatively complicated. But it's definitely one of the best ideas I've seen for reward. And obviously it will all lie in the values in that algorithm. So do definitively go forward with that idea. Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 874,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
June 08, 2014, 10:02:15 PM
I'm liking the current discussion and I'll be bringing up these points to the rest of the development team. A reward proportional to the exchange rate is an interesting concept and I'll come up with a couple of models to see how it will all pan out.
I personally don't think a direct supply change and only that is the answer,however if the supply cap is modified along with a way the coin is distributed we may find what we are looking for.
I personally don't think a direct supply change and only that is the answer,however if the supply cap is modified along with a way the coin is distributed we may find what we are looking for.
Thank you!
I want to reiterate again. It's not a panacea to all our problems, the market forces brought forward that, and I think it's a good thing that it happened sooner rather then later, but regardless it's a very high total supply if of course we want to see 3000 sat or higher.With that supply it's unlikely cause that's scares away investors,cause thay are paying for scarcity if there is almost endless supply of something why buy it at 3000 sat.They are not stupid to do that.
I'll dare to say that no one invester in their right mind will buy the coin at the price of 3000sat with half a million coin supply per day and 670m total supply, regardless of innovation.
Quote from: OmarGsPools
I personally don't think a direct supply change and only that is the answer,however if the supply cap is modified along with a way the coin is distributed we may find what we are looking for.
I completely agree with this.
Our differences are slowly converging.
Regards
Edit: I will continue tomorrow, good night wherever you are.
June 08, 2014, 09:54:47 PM
Get ready for walls of text and economic discussion.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
Bad Deflation
This can happen when there is a sudden drop in demand for whatever reason. What happens in this situation is that prices start to drop to get people to buy more stuff, however people see this prices dropping and decide to hold out for the "bottom" before they spend money. This causes demand to fall further and prices fall further. Soon companies start to go bankrupt because they are not selling goods. Eventually as enough suppliers go out of business, supply will come down and prices will level. At this point however some serious damage is done. This scenario is exactly why you see governments do things like issue debt in recessions and why austerity is exactly the wrong policy for recovery.
Issuing debt in our case is continuing to produce coins at the same rate that led us to this state. It may not be a matter of ethics when talking about our current reward scheme or coin supply but rather an issue in our model.
While some extra generated interest would be enough to get us back to where we were price wise, continuing to pump out coins at a fixed rate would eventually require more and more buying interest to hold our current price. Our current model has us as an inflationary currency (just like the USD) with a halving in inflation at Block 840,000 and a continuation at half the inflation until we reach 672M HIRO. At that point we become a currency with fixed supply rate and HIRO become inherently scarce. The issue is if the damage has been done early on and prices drop, we'd be left with 672M HIRO worth nothing until there is becomes a use for them which someone could create and then abuse HIRO for a quick gain by purchasing large chunks of the total supply before creating the need. The coin must be distributed to as many hands as possible to prevent manipulation.
This is what we're dealing with currently and maybe a block reward that incorporates the current exchange rate and/or difficulty may be beneficial. My idea would be to slow down on the inflation rate (block reward) when difficulty is low to reduce the rate of coins being produced or "issued debt" when there is not enough demand. When times are well in our "HIRO Economy" we can have our block reward increase when difficulty is high (means our network is secure and has dedicated miners) and our exchange rate is climbing (means we have interest in owning our currency). The latter would also help prevent pumps as if someone decided to heavily pump HIRO we would have more HIRO coming into supply to accommodate for the new generated interest which also helps keeps our distribution decentralized.
These are just some things that have come to mind and I think an innovative distribution method like this could be really beneficial. Looks like I'm putting my economics degree here to use in the cryptoworld. Feel free to discuss this proposal and continue to share your ideas regarding this topic.
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