Topic: [ANN][0.8.6] Hirocoin - X11 - NGW - Secured Blockchain - Time Warp Limitation - page 11. (Read 271593 times)
June 23, 2014, 02:23:39 AM
Directions icon English is not good. Do not understand. Who translated under Chinese
June 22, 2014, 04:09:53 AM
Omar and Hiro, I truly appreciate your work and your long term thinking. The roadmap looks impressive, even if you are able to implement only part of it, this will still provide benefit to the community.
I know these are tough times for you but hang in there. Your persistence and dedication will pay off !
To show my appreciation I just placed a buy order on Mintpal.
I know these are tough times for you but hang in there. Your persistence and dedication will pay off !
To show my appreciation I just placed a buy order on Mintpal.
June 21, 2014, 03:42:18 PM
Yeah, I've seen that and I know he's working on that. However, the range of reward to me still seems too high. If 400 is the high water mark and (I forget what the low is, like 200?) I don't know how this helps.
You're still flooding the market with too many coins. I think you can look at API's and take a sampling from every exchange and then conduct an average and build the price into the Blockchain through consensus. Then the reward is severely reduced when the value of the coin is low. Or if you can't reduce the reward, tie to difficulty, make it really difficult to find a block if the value of the coin is low.
You might not have a lot of miners there, but that could be adjusted through an increase in fees to make up for the shortfall from the reward.
If your example is the way it will end up being, I suggest making the coin production very small when difficulty is really low. Give the market time to absorb the inventory of coins that are already out there.
You can't keep giving away 200 coins every ten minutes (Or whatever metric Hiro uses) when you have people selling half a million coins for 103 Satoshi. Why even mine? Just go buy coins, it's cheaper than wasting your electric bill on this. I get the "Hope for the future" stuff, but you'd help the coin more by purchasing the inventory than wasting time mining it.
You have to reduce the number of coins significantly when the value is low. When foreign countries have too much free cash, they purchase foreign debt. That ties the money down for X number of years and provides a small amount of interest to compensate for the lack of investment. Otherwise there would be tons of cash and inflation would skyrocket.
Since there is no central economy here, you can't just take the tax dollars and invest the cash into foreign debt. But you CAN squelch supply.
It'd be better to tie it to the actually value so mining pools can't game the system, but barring that your solution is good but the minimal reward needs to be significantly smaller in my opinion.
You're still flooding the market with too many coins. I think you can look at API's and take a sampling from every exchange and then conduct an average and build the price into the Blockchain through consensus. Then the reward is severely reduced when the value of the coin is low. Or if you can't reduce the reward, tie to difficulty, make it really difficult to find a block if the value of the coin is low.
You might not have a lot of miners there, but that could be adjusted through an increase in fees to make up for the shortfall from the reward.
If your example is the way it will end up being, I suggest making the coin production very small when difficulty is really low. Give the market time to absorb the inventory of coins that are already out there.
You can't keep giving away 200 coins every ten minutes (Or whatever metric Hiro uses) when you have people selling half a million coins for 103 Satoshi. Why even mine? Just go buy coins, it's cheaper than wasting your electric bill on this. I get the "Hope for the future" stuff, but you'd help the coin more by purchasing the inventory than wasting time mining it.
You have to reduce the number of coins significantly when the value is low. When foreign countries have too much free cash, they purchase foreign debt. That ties the money down for X number of years and provides a small amount of interest to compensate for the lack of investment. Otherwise there would be tons of cash and inflation would skyrocket.
Since there is no central economy here, you can't just take the tax dollars and invest the cash into foreign debt. But you CAN squelch supply.
It'd be better to tie it to the actually value so mining pools can't game the system, but barring that your solution is good but the minimal reward needs to be significantly smaller in my opinion.
The high is 400 and the low is 80. So we'd never be in a worse position of over saturating the market than we are in now.
Coin production will be very small when difficulty is very low, to do exactly what you just said and give the market time to absorb the inventory of coins out there. Take another look at the proposal as it's now linked in the ANN post. I feel that it does exactly what you're suggesting.
June 21, 2014, 02:55:19 PM
Yeah, I've seen that and I know he's working on that. However, the range of reward to me still seems too high. If 400 is the high water mark and (I forget what the low is, like 200?) I don't know how this helps.
You're still flooding the market with too many coins. I think you can look at API's and take a sampling from every exchange and then conduct an average and build the price into the Blockchain through consensus. Then the reward is severely reduced when the value of the coin is low. Or if you can't reduce the reward, tie to difficulty, make it really difficult to find a block if the value of the coin is low.
You might not have a lot of miners there, but that could be adjusted through an increase in fees to make up for the shortfall from the reward.
If your example is the way it will end up being, I suggest making the coin production very small when difficulty is really low. Give the market time to absorb the inventory of coins that are already out there.
You can't keep giving away 200 coins every ten minutes (Or whatever metric Hiro uses) when you have people selling half a million coins for 103 Satoshi. Why even mine? Just go buy coins, it's cheaper than wasting your electric bill on this. I get the "Hope for the future" stuff, but you'd help the coin more by purchasing the inventory than wasting time mining it.
You have to reduce the number of coins significantly when the value is low. When foreign countries have too much free cash, they purchase foreign debt. That ties the money down for X number of years and provides a small amount of interest to compensate for the lack of investment. Otherwise there would be tons of cash and inflation would skyrocket.
Since there is no central economy here, you can't just take the tax dollars and invest the cash into foreign debt. But you CAN squelch supply.
It'd be better to tie it to the actually value so mining pools can't game the system, but barring that your solution is good but the minimal reward needs to be significantly smaller in my opinion.
You're still flooding the market with too many coins. I think you can look at API's and take a sampling from every exchange and then conduct an average and build the price into the Blockchain through consensus. Then the reward is severely reduced when the value of the coin is low. Or if you can't reduce the reward, tie to difficulty, make it really difficult to find a block if the value of the coin is low.
You might not have a lot of miners there, but that could be adjusted through an increase in fees to make up for the shortfall from the reward.
If your example is the way it will end up being, I suggest making the coin production very small when difficulty is really low. Give the market time to absorb the inventory of coins that are already out there.
You can't keep giving away 200 coins every ten minutes (Or whatever metric Hiro uses) when you have people selling half a million coins for 103 Satoshi. Why even mine? Just go buy coins, it's cheaper than wasting your electric bill on this. I get the "Hope for the future" stuff, but you'd help the coin more by purchasing the inventory than wasting time mining it.
You have to reduce the number of coins significantly when the value is low. When foreign countries have too much free cash, they purchase foreign debt. That ties the money down for X number of years and provides a small amount of interest to compensate for the lack of investment. Otherwise there would be tons of cash and inflation would skyrocket.
Since there is no central economy here, you can't just take the tax dollars and invest the cash into foreign debt. But you CAN squelch supply.
It'd be better to tie it to the actually value so mining pools can't game the system, but barring that your solution is good but the minimal reward needs to be significantly smaller in my opinion.
June 21, 2014, 11:26:36 AM
Well of course, every coin is worthless when it launches. But here you are not at launch, you are at a point of massive oversupply of coins. How many do you all have? Millions? So cutting the mining from 400 coins to whatever... 200? A block is the problem because it's still too many due to the over supply of coins already on the market.
It's supply side economics. If I run a store right, and I have 10 PlayStation 5's on the shelf. The value of those PlayStation 5's are going to be very high because there are only 10. Now if I have 5 million PlayStation 5's on the shelf, not only are they in oversupply and heavily discounted, but you're backing the truck up and saying, "Where can I put these 200 extra PlayStation 5's at?" every ten minutes or whatever it is for Hiro. Great! You might as well be throwing them on the fire.
If you want to innovate the coin, tie it to the market. That market didn't exist when Satoshi was creating Bitcoin, but it exists now. Tie the reward to the value. If the value is high, more coins are released, if the value is low, less coins are released.
Sure, some miners are going to switch off because they aren't earning when the value is low. But there are people like you that mine for the future. Then there are people who mine for money. And they will switch off and then people like me will buy up the inventory, which raises the value.
That's when they come back in to mine, and the multipools see the rising value and select Hiro to mine.
You're also stabilizing the value of the coin. Something that makes all other Cryptocoins scary is that the value fluxuates so quickly that what you buy today could be worthless tomorrow. By supplying coins to match inflation... Well... Now you have a real well thought out model of a coin, because it is based on value and not some arbitrary number picked by a developer at random to increase scarcity over time.
If the value goes down, you reduce mining rewards. If the value goes up, you increase them. Then everyone wins.
You can shoot some holes in this, but by thinking of creative ideas like this, we can make an innovative and better coin that people will want to use. Not just replicating the same crap everyone else is doing. Satoshi could have stopped at E-Cash and just said, "I don't have an answer to the lack of a central register problem." but he instead looked at the current design and connected it to the P2P nature of the Blockchain and Boom... We have Bitcoin. Innovate instead of Stagnate.
Look, I think Hiro is smart and he's going to try and reduce the mining reward so that will maybe help a tiny-bit but the damage is done. Unless you can really choke off the supply for awhile and come up with some innovations to cause people to look at the coin and start using it because it offers features others don't, this coin won't recover. You guys will be working on Block Explorers and Android Apps for a coin that is delisted from every exchange and worth 1 Satoshi a coin while you're all producing more of them... for the future!
I want this to succeed as an investor. I continue to buy a crap load of coins. It's probably going to end up being a dumb investment, but it can't be worse than some of the miner investments I've bought. So I'm taking a chance on Hiro and the Hirocoin team. I hope it works out. You guys should really consider making more innovations. Not just recompiling stuff and skinning stuff. Zzz... Hiro did a great job by putting that unique barcode feature in there, but that's not going to really bring in a bunch of investment dollars. Still, that's the kind of thing the coin needs. More stuff to set it apart.
It's supply side economics. If I run a store right, and I have 10 PlayStation 5's on the shelf. The value of those PlayStation 5's are going to be very high because there are only 10. Now if I have 5 million PlayStation 5's on the shelf, not only are they in oversupply and heavily discounted, but you're backing the truck up and saying, "Where can I put these 200 extra PlayStation 5's at?" every ten minutes or whatever it is for Hiro. Great! You might as well be throwing them on the fire.
If you want to innovate the coin, tie it to the market. That market didn't exist when Satoshi was creating Bitcoin, but it exists now. Tie the reward to the value. If the value is high, more coins are released, if the value is low, less coins are released.
Sure, some miners are going to switch off because they aren't earning when the value is low. But there are people like you that mine for the future. Then there are people who mine for money. And they will switch off and then people like me will buy up the inventory, which raises the value.
That's when they come back in to mine, and the multipools see the rising value and select Hiro to mine.
You're also stabilizing the value of the coin. Something that makes all other Cryptocoins scary is that the value fluxuates so quickly that what you buy today could be worthless tomorrow. By supplying coins to match inflation... Well... Now you have a real well thought out model of a coin, because it is based on value and not some arbitrary number picked by a developer at random to increase scarcity over time.
If the value goes down, you reduce mining rewards. If the value goes up, you increase them. Then everyone wins.
You can shoot some holes in this, but by thinking of creative ideas like this, we can make an innovative and better coin that people will want to use. Not just replicating the same crap everyone else is doing. Satoshi could have stopped at E-Cash and just said, "I don't have an answer to the lack of a central register problem." but he instead looked at the current design and connected it to the P2P nature of the Blockchain and Boom... We have Bitcoin. Innovate instead of Stagnate.
Look, I think Hiro is smart and he's going to try and reduce the mining reward so that will maybe help a tiny-bit but the damage is done. Unless you can really choke off the supply for awhile and come up with some innovations to cause people to look at the coin and start using it because it offers features others don't, this coin won't recover. You guys will be working on Block Explorers and Android Apps for a coin that is delisted from every exchange and worth 1 Satoshi a coin while you're all producing more of them... for the future!
I want this to succeed as an investor. I continue to buy a crap load of coins. It's probably going to end up being a dumb investment, but it can't be worse than some of the miner investments I've bought. So I'm taking a chance on Hiro and the Hirocoin team. I hope it works out. You guys should really consider making more innovations. Not just recompiling stuff and skinning stuff. Zzz... Hiro did a great job by putting that unique barcode feature in there, but that's not going to really bring in a bunch of investment dollars. Still, that's the kind of thing the coin needs. More stuff to set it apart.
Tempestb have you taken a look at my proposal? I've just posted my final revision of the ANN post to Hiro so that we can have all HIRO related info easily accessible.
What you're saying is almost exactly what I've proposed and what we're working on to implement. I proposed that we tie the reward to the difficulty which is as close as you can get to value without having to depend on API's from exchanges which could lead to some issues.
When difficulty is low, the reward will be low and long term miners and investors like you will be mining and buying what little supply is produced. This makes it incredibly easy to stabilize the price and even increase it.
When multipools come back in, the reward increases to accomodate for the new demand and will adjust up or down as demand fluctuates.
If you have any questions or improvements on the idea let me know. I have an economics degree and your first example was exactly what I thought of a few weeks ago and really wondered why no one has implemented a system like that in crypto yet.
June 20, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
Well of course, every coin is worthless when it launches. But here you are not at launch, you are at a point of massive oversupply of coins. How many do you all have? Millions? So cutting the mining from 400 coins to whatever... 200? A block is the problem because it's still too many due to the over supply of coins already on the market.
It's supply side economics. If I run a store right, and I have 10 PlayStation 5's on the shelf. The value of those PlayStation 5's are going to be very high because there are only 10. Now if I have 5 million PlayStation 5's on the shelf, not only are they in oversupply and heavily discounted, but you're backing the truck up and saying, "Where can I put these 200 extra PlayStation 5's at?" every ten minutes or whatever it is for Hiro. Great! You might as well be throwing them on the fire.
If you want to innovate the coin, tie it to the market. That market didn't exist when Satoshi was creating Bitcoin, but it exists now. Tie the reward to the value. If the value is high, more coins are released, if the value is low, less coins are released.
Sure, some miners are going to switch off because they aren't earning when the value is low. But there are people like you that mine for the future. Then there are people who mine for money. And they will switch off and then people like me will buy up the inventory, which raises the value.
That's when they come back in to mine, and the multipools see the rising value and select Hiro to mine.
You're also stabilizing the value of the coin. Something that makes all other Cryptocoins scary is that the value fluxuates so quickly that what you buy today could be worthless tomorrow. By supplying coins to match inflation... Well... Now you have a real well thought out model of a coin, because it is based on value and not some arbitrary number picked by a developer at random to increase scarcity over time.
If the value goes down, you reduce mining rewards. If the value goes up, you increase them. Then everyone wins.
You can shoot some holes in this, but by thinking of creative ideas like this, we can make an innovative and better coin that people will want to use. Not just replicating the same crap everyone else is doing. Satoshi could have stopped at E-Cash and just said, "I don't have an answer to the lack of a central register problem." but he instead looked at the current design and connected it to the P2P nature of the Blockchain and Boom... We have Bitcoin. Innovate instead of Stagnate.
Look, I think Hiro is smart and he's going to try and reduce the mining reward so that will maybe help a tiny-bit but the damage is done. Unless you can really choke off the supply for awhile and come up with some innovations to cause people to look at the coin and start using it because it offers features others don't, this coin won't recover. You guys will be working on Block Explorers and Android Apps for a coin that is delisted from every exchange and worth 1 Satoshi a coin while you're all producing more of them... for the future!
I want this to succeed as an investor. I continue to buy a crap load of coins. It's probably going to end up being a dumb investment, but it can't be worse than some of the miner investments I've bought. So I'm taking a chance on Hiro and the Hirocoin team. I hope it works out. You guys should really consider making more innovations. Not just recompiling stuff and skinning stuff. Zzz... Hiro did a great job by putting that unique barcode feature in there, but that's not going to really bring in a bunch of investment dollars. Still, that's the kind of thing the coin needs. More stuff to set it apart.
It's supply side economics. If I run a store right, and I have 10 PlayStation 5's on the shelf. The value of those PlayStation 5's are going to be very high because there are only 10. Now if I have 5 million PlayStation 5's on the shelf, not only are they in oversupply and heavily discounted, but you're backing the truck up and saying, "Where can I put these 200 extra PlayStation 5's at?" every ten minutes or whatever it is for Hiro. Great! You might as well be throwing them on the fire.
If you want to innovate the coin, tie it to the market. That market didn't exist when Satoshi was creating Bitcoin, but it exists now. Tie the reward to the value. If the value is high, more coins are released, if the value is low, less coins are released.
Sure, some miners are going to switch off because they aren't earning when the value is low. But there are people like you that mine for the future. Then there are people who mine for money. And they will switch off and then people like me will buy up the inventory, which raises the value.
That's when they come back in to mine, and the multipools see the rising value and select Hiro to mine.
You're also stabilizing the value of the coin. Something that makes all other Cryptocoins scary is that the value fluxuates so quickly that what you buy today could be worthless tomorrow. By supplying coins to match inflation... Well... Now you have a real well thought out model of a coin, because it is based on value and not some arbitrary number picked by a developer at random to increase scarcity over time.
If the value goes down, you reduce mining rewards. If the value goes up, you increase them. Then everyone wins.
You can shoot some holes in this, but by thinking of creative ideas like this, we can make an innovative and better coin that people will want to use. Not just replicating the same crap everyone else is doing. Satoshi could have stopped at E-Cash and just said, "I don't have an answer to the lack of a central register problem." but he instead looked at the current design and connected it to the P2P nature of the Blockchain and Boom... We have Bitcoin. Innovate instead of Stagnate.
Look, I think Hiro is smart and he's going to try and reduce the mining reward so that will maybe help a tiny-bit but the damage is done. Unless you can really choke off the supply for awhile and come up with some innovations to cause people to look at the coin and start using it because it offers features others don't, this coin won't recover. You guys will be working on Block Explorers and Android Apps for a coin that is delisted from every exchange and worth 1 Satoshi a coin while you're all producing more of them... for the future!
I want this to succeed as an investor. I continue to buy a crap load of coins. It's probably going to end up being a dumb investment, but it can't be worse than some of the miner investments I've bought. So I'm taking a chance on Hiro and the Hirocoin team. I hope it works out. You guys should really consider making more innovations. Not just recompiling stuff and skinning stuff. Zzz... Hiro did a great job by putting that unique barcode feature in there, but that's not going to really bring in a bunch of investment dollars. Still, that's the kind of thing the coin needs. More stuff to set it apart.
June 20, 2014, 04:44:13 PM
Multipools? Is anyone even still mining this coin? It's value is 100 Satoshi thanks in part to me keeping it there from getting any lower. I have buy walls up on multiple exchanges at 100 Satoshi so the whole thing doesn't completely collapse and get delisted everywhere. Though I'm not going to do that forever.
Whether you mine 250 coins a block or 400 coins a block, they are still worthless. Nobody is going to mine it.
Whether you mine 250 coins a block or 400 coins a block, they are still worthless. Nobody is going to mine it.
First, for the past month or so, there were only two X11 coin worth mining, Dark and Hiro. When Dark became increasingly difficult, they were mining Hiro and dumping, creating an oversupply. There weren't enough guys like you so the price plummeted. However, if the price starts to recover and Hiro is remotely profitable to mine, the multi-pools will be back to do the exact same thing.
Second, some miners like me take a long view of the coin. I'm not mining for the current price; I'm mining for the future price of a coin I believe in. I consider the coin highly undervalued. Just like some people mined Dark for a couple months when not much was happening. These are times of testing for the coin to see if both the Dev and the community can adapt and survive. I'm in.
June 20, 2014, 03:56:51 PM
I'm happy to share with everyone the Hirocoin Roadmap for 2014!
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
Thanks for this. One small thing - accommodate is spelled incorrectly on the roadmap.
There are several worthwhile items here, but I worry that not enough has been done to flesh out the possible ways this coin can move forward toward innovation. Have there been PMs with certain members of the community that drew you guys to establish the 2014 roadmap as it stands now, and if so, would you consider making the proposed ideas public? You have some really intelligent and experienced people staying true to this coin - might it be worthwhile to have a bit of a Hirocoin summit over IRC before locking down on the 2014 features, maybe even get into 2015 goals and strategies/tactics?
It seems to me that if all this work is being planned for the remainder of this year, it should be on features that people both in and outside of the Hiro community can rally around, offer solutions that we believe the mass market will want and need (even if they don't quite know it yet) or opportunities that no one else is taking but should. No, I'm not talking about flavor of the month ideas like anon or some scheme to pump this coin only to destroy it down the line. I loved the idea Tempestb had about becoming even more transparent. Now that's going against the grain with this whole anon craze, but it's not just for the sake of being different. In order for massive and mainstream adoption, we need greater transparency, not less. People aren't grasping that yet but I believe the market will move in this direction soon. Why not lead this movement and be ahead of the curve?
Tempestb also had an idea about having the hirocoin trading value influence the reward logic. He can explain it far better than I can, but what's refreshing about this idea is that it folds in investor behavior into the availability and profitability of the coin. To my knowledge, no coin is doing anything like this. Now, is this because there's some inherent flaw in this approach or that it's too much work? Don't know, but it would be nice to discuss innovative ideas like this openly with the Hiro team.
I, too, have been putting up buy walls to try and keep the prices from falling. Psychologically, keeping it in the 3 digits is important enough to put my btcs toward this goal. But like others, I can't do this for very long. Perhaps I'm naive, but I still don't think it's too late to turn Hiro into a premiere coin widely adopted around the globe. We have a smart and dedicated dev team that's stuck with this for several months as the value and reputation of the coin has turned awfully quiet. That says a lot about you guys right there, but it also says a lot about the community members that's stuck by you and remain invested in a whole lot of Hirocoins. Please be open to our ideas. Even if you don't like them or believe they cannot be implemented in any sort of realistic way, or even if it's beyond the scope of what you're willing to do time wise, it seems like a good time to have this discussion now.
Will fix the typo, thanks,
I'm just finishing up a revision of the ANN post to make it easier for everyone to see where we're at and what we're doing at a single glance. I'm 100% open to any suggestions and I'll try my best to be more active throughout this thread, hirocoin forums and the subreddit. My first public proposal that I'll allow the community to have a say in how we can improve or if the idea is good as is will be the dynamic reward implementation.
The 2014 Roadmap does not include a Q4 and as things get added to the development list the roadmap will be updated.
Thanks, Omar.
June 20, 2014, 03:51:11 PM
I'm happy to share with everyone the Hirocoin Roadmap for 2014!
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
Thanks for this. One small thing - accommodate is spelled incorrectly on the roadmap.
There are several worthwhile items here, but I worry that not enough has been done to flesh out the possible ways this coin can move forward toward innovation. Have there been PMs with certain members of the community that drew you guys to establish the 2014 roadmap as it stands now, and if so, would you consider making the proposed ideas public? You have some really intelligent and experienced people staying true to this coin - might it be worthwhile to have a bit of a Hirocoin summit over IRC before locking down on the 2014 features, maybe even get into 2015 goals and strategies/tactics?
It seems to me that if all this work is being planned for the remainder of this year, it should be on features that people both in and outside of the Hiro community can rally around, offer solutions that we believe the mass market will want and need (even if they don't quite know it yet) or opportunities that no one else is taking but should. No, I'm not talking about flavor of the month ideas like anon or some scheme to pump this coin only to destroy it down the line. I loved the idea Tempestb had about becoming even more transparent. Now that's going against the grain with this whole anon craze, but it's not just for the sake of being different. In order for massive and mainstream adoption, we need greater transparency, not less. People aren't grasping that yet but I believe the market will move in this direction soon. Why not lead this movement and be ahead of the curve?
Tempestb also had an idea about having the hirocoin trading value influence the reward logic. He can explain it far better than I can, but what's refreshing about this idea is that it folds in investor behavior into the availability and profitability of the coin. To my knowledge, no coin is doing anything like this. Now, is this because there's some inherent flaw in this approach or that it's too much work? Don't know, but it would be nice to discuss innovative ideas like this openly with the Hiro team.
I, too, have been putting up buy walls to try and keep the prices from falling. Psychologically, keeping it in the 3 digits is important enough to put my btcs toward this goal. But like others, I can't do this for very long. Perhaps I'm naive, but I still don't think it's too late to turn Hiro into a premiere coin widely adopted around the globe. We have a smart and dedicated dev team that's stuck with this for several months as the value and reputation of the coin has turned awfully quiet. That says a lot about you guys right there, but it also says a lot about the community members that's stuck by you and remain invested in a whole lot of Hirocoins. Please be open to our ideas. Even if you don't like them or believe they cannot be implemented in any sort of realistic way, or even if it's beyond the scope of what you're willing to do time wise, it seems like a good time to have this discussion now.
Will fix the typo, thanks,
I'm just finishing up a revision of the ANN post to make it easier for everyone to see where we're at and what we're doing at a single glance. I'm 100% open to any suggestions and I'll try my best to be more active throughout this thread, hirocoin forums and the subreddit. My first public proposal that I'll allow the community to have a say in is dynamic reward implementation and how we can improve it or if the idea is good as is.
The 2014 Roadmap does not include a Q4 and as things get added to the development list the roadmap will be updated.
June 20, 2014, 03:24:36 PM
I'm happy to share with everyone the Hirocoin Roadmap for 2014!
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
Thanks for this. One small thing - accommodate is spelled incorrectly on the roadmap.
There are several worthwhile items here, but I worry that not enough has been done to flesh out the possible ways this coin can move forward toward innovation. Have there been PMs with certain members of the community that drew you guys to establish the 2014 roadmap as it stands now, and if so, would you consider making the proposed ideas public? You have some really intelligent and experienced people staying true to this coin - might it be worthwhile to have a bit of a Hirocoin summit over IRC before locking down on the 2014 features, maybe even get into 2015 goals and strategies/tactics?
It seems to me that if all this work is being planned for the remainder of this year, it should be on features that people both in and outside of the Hiro community can rally around, offer solutions that we believe the mass market will want and need (even if they don't quite know it yet) or opportunities that no one else is taking but should. No, I'm not talking about flavor of the month ideas like anon or some scheme to pump this coin only to destroy it down the line. I loved the idea Tempestb had about becoming even more transparent. Now that's going against the grain with this whole anon craze, but it's not just for the sake of being different. In order for massive and mainstream adoption, we need greater transparency, not less. People aren't grasping that yet but I believe the market will move in this direction soon. Why not lead this movement and be ahead of the curve?
Tempestb also had an idea about having the hirocoin trading value influence the reward logic. He can explain it far better than I can, but what's refreshing about this idea is that it folds in investor behavior into the availability and profitability of the coin. To my knowledge, no coin is doing anything like this. Now, is this because there's some inherent flaw in this approach or that it's too much work? Don't know, but it would be nice to discuss innovative ideas like this openly with the Hiro team.
EDIT: Solutions that solve widely known problems are key at this time. Not always, but in order to be relevant after months of being somewhat unpopular or even ignored, this is a strategy I can't recommend enough. Going anonymous was a solution for a very small sliver of the cryptocommunity. Its recent popularity isn't due to meeting a massive need, it's due to the cool factor of being secretive and giving hypers something to hype (and of course, the success of dark). People can use it to say the government can't trace the movement of these coins, yadda yadda. The fact is, in order to be widely adopted by the mainstream, transparency is unavoidable./EDIT
I, too, have been putting up buy walls to try and keep the prices from falling. Psychologically, keeping it in the 3 digits is important enough to put my btcs toward this goal. But like others, I can't do this for very long. Perhaps I'm naive, but I still don't think it's too late to turn Hiro into a premiere coin widely adopted around the globe. We have a smart and dedicated dev team that's stuck with this for several months as the value and reputation of the coin has turned awfully quiet. That says a lot about you guys right there, but it also says a lot about the community members that's stuck by you and remain invested in a whole lot of Hirocoins. Please be open to our ideas. Even if you don't like them or believe they cannot be implemented in any sort of realistic way, or even if it's beyond the scope of what you're willing to do time/effort wise, it seems like a good time to have this discussion now.
June 20, 2014, 02:49:32 PM
Multipools? Is anyone even still mining this coin? It's value is 100 Satoshi thanks in part to me keeping it there from getting any lower. I have buy walls up on multiple exchanges at 100 Satoshi so the whole thing doesn't completely collapse and get delisted everywhere. Though I'm not going to do that forever.
Whether you mine 250 coins a block or 400 coins a block, they are still worthless. Nobody is going to mine it.
Whether you mine 250 coins a block or 400 coins a block, they are still worthless. Nobody is going to mine it.
June 20, 2014, 01:45:07 PM
I'm happy to share with everyone the Hirocoin Roadmap for 2014!
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
Great roadmap and great direction for this coin. Guys, our Dev team is adapting, so lets hold on and stay more positive. It will be interesting to see how the Dynamic Block Reward shakes out and how it effects the multi-pools.
BTW, that's a pretty aggressive Q2 list of deliverables with only 10 days left in this quarter. Is that realistic?
June 20, 2014, 12:00:36 PM
I'm happy to share with everyone the Hirocoin Roadmap for 2014!
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
You can view the roadmap here: HIRO Roadmap 2014
I'll be working on fixing the ANN thread to include all the new links to important information and present it in a cleaner fashion
June 19, 2014, 05:21:41 PM
http://i.imgur.com/iaGmm2Q.png
Royal Miners
www.royalminers.com
Royal Miners has added a port for HiroCoin. Royal Miners was created by mining enthusiasts for mining enthusiasts. No registration required, simply mine with your wallet address as your username, and anything as a password. Decided to add HiroCoin just to support the community, spread the hash around.
http://i.imgur.com/t6lORLt.png
Royal Miners
www.royalminers.com
Royal Miners has added a port for HiroCoin. Royal Miners was created by mining enthusiasts for mining enthusiasts. No registration required, simply mine with your wallet address as your username, and anything as a password. Decided to add HiroCoin just to support the community, spread the hash around.
Code:
stratum+tcp://s.royalminers.com:3013 -u YourHIROaddress -p x
http://i.imgur.com/t6lORLt.png
June 19, 2014, 12:49:12 AM
How about splitting the block reward to prevent centralisation? You guys would be the first to do that.
June 18, 2014, 11:10:41 PM
Doesn't this seem counter productive? -snip-
The idea is that when demand for the coin is high (represented by people mining it) the reward is higher as the market is there to take the coins, when demand is low the reward drops so as not to saturate an empty market with more coins. Having it the other way around so that when demand drops more coins are produced seems to be wrong. You would be bringing more coins to market when less people want them.-snip -
Will the "baseline" reward still be 400 coins (i.e. if the current difficulty == the average?) I would lobby for the average reward to be halved at some stage in the near future, in the hope that my 600 hirocoin become worth something one day.
June 18, 2014, 09:23:28 AM
Doesn't this seem counter productive? If people stop mining, and the remaining miners get less coins, they will have little incentive to continue mining, so they will stop and move to another coin that is more profitable. Hastening the leave of the remaining people mining because they will get less and less as more and more people leave.
The opposite being, that since it produces more coins if you mine on it with more hash, that it will dilute the value further and make the existing coins worth less.
It's the worst solution I can imagine.
I think too much effort is being focused on getting people to mine the coin. The miners don't make the coin valuable. The miners just dump the coins for cash to pay for expenses. If you want to improve the coin, you have to make consumer focused features. Give people a reason to use the coin or hold the coin. Otherwise you have people just mining worthless coins. Might as well just release all of them to everyone in a lottery and save the environment the wasted electricity.
You'd be better off providing the "bonus" to people who hold coins. That will at least improve the scarcity of the coin and make them more valuable.
I can print paper coins on the copier all day, but they are still worthless.
The opposite being, that since it produces more coins if you mine on it with more hash, that it will dilute the value further and make the existing coins worth less.
It's the worst solution I can imagine.
I think too much effort is being focused on getting people to mine the coin. The miners don't make the coin valuable. The miners just dump the coins for cash to pay for expenses. If you want to improve the coin, you have to make consumer focused features. Give people a reason to use the coin or hold the coin. Otherwise you have people just mining worthless coins. Might as well just release all of them to everyone in a lottery and save the environment the wasted electricity.
You'd be better off providing the "bonus" to people who hold coins. That will at least improve the scarcity of the coin and make them more valuable.
I can print paper coins on the copier all day, but they are still worthless.
The idea is that when demand for the coin is high (represented by people mining it) the reward is higher as the market is there to take the coins, when demand is low the reward drops so as not to saturate an empty market with more coins. Having it the other way around so that when demand drops more coins are produced seems to be wrong. You would be bringing more coins to market when less people want them.
The demand for this has come from the community. For a long time now the conversation has focused on reducing the coin supply to the market as the supply is out stripping the demand. This dynamic coin reward is us trying to meet the communities requests. To simply reduce the coin supply does nothing to progress crypto. With the dynamic block reward we try something new that could evolve into a popular solution if we get it right and continue to develop it.
My next item was to bring in an API for merchants to use, I think that this is important. If we have a dynamic reward then the next coin reward has to also be returned by the API. The API would give the value of the coin in fiat, generate QR codes and give other coin stats. I think getting merchants to use us in the real world is important. We are also going to work on an Android app, there is enough existing code out there to be able to piece together a working app without much hard work. This is going to be needed for people to pay in Hiro at the counter.
June 17, 2014, 04:39:50 PM
But look, 400 Hirocoins is about 35 cents USD at the moment. Is it even worthwhile to mine this coin? It doesn't sound like it'll pay the electric bill.
You have to get people to mine and hold the coin, so that they believe the coin will be worth more money some day. Adding tricks to make mining produce more coins is nice, but the problem is value of the coin. More coins weakens the value. And yes, I'm talking about nobody buying the coin because nobody is buying the coin. That's why it's worth about 100 Satoshi and falling.
Production of more coins dilutes the value. You can't get value unless people buy the coin. Nobody is going to buy the coin if it doesn't distinguish itself as a viable option over other coins. Darkcoin did that through anonymous features and good PR.
I'm not saying that is easy to figure out, or really anything new here. But I am dumbfounded by the continued development choices to enhance the coin around mining it. Mining a worthless coin is not attractive to anyone. It doesn't matter how many bells and whistles it has.
I think you guys want to make the coin a success. I just think that in order to do that, you need to think more about making the experience better for the consumer so that they will choose your coin. Provide them some reason to do so. Not just having a point of sale interface or a block explorer, but features that set Hirocoin apart.
For instance, and this is just an example and not meant to be done...
One of the big problems with Bitcoin is fraud. There are scam artists pretending to be real organizations. People send them money because they are tricked. Part of the reason this is so easy, is because the wallet address is always 100% unique.
But what if you wanted a wallet address that was a combination of that uniqueness and also identifiable.
Let's say Hiro takes donations. His wallet could have a public identifier that preceded the wallet address. "HIRO-1EWsTid9jhS9SWRBahi97vxYZeooExz5yo"
That prefix would be tied to his wallet and his wallet only. Nobody else could use it. The address after the prefix could be different and random as it is now. So one is static, tied to the wallet, and the other is dynamic and random. So that as the sender, I KNOW that I'm sending money to Hiro and not a fraudster. In this way, organizations like Bitmain could have BITMAIN-1EWsTid9jhS9SWRBahi97vxYZeooExz5yo as their prefix followed by one of many numbers. And so nobody else could steal their prefix and wallet combination. Customers would have a better sense of reassurance that their money is going to the right company or the right person.
Then you can go around and tell people, "This is the next generation of digital currency, because we have an extra assurance against fraud by design."
You add features like this, and people will clamor to use it because it offers solutions to an existing problem. Solve the problems of today's cryptocurrency and then your cryptocurrency becomes the one that people will favor.
I'm done beating the dead horse. Thanks for listening/reading.
You have to get people to mine and hold the coin, so that they believe the coin will be worth more money some day. Adding tricks to make mining produce more coins is nice, but the problem is value of the coin. More coins weakens the value. And yes, I'm talking about nobody buying the coin because nobody is buying the coin. That's why it's worth about 100 Satoshi and falling.
Production of more coins dilutes the value. You can't get value unless people buy the coin. Nobody is going to buy the coin if it doesn't distinguish itself as a viable option over other coins. Darkcoin did that through anonymous features and good PR.
I'm not saying that is easy to figure out, or really anything new here. But I am dumbfounded by the continued development choices to enhance the coin around mining it. Mining a worthless coin is not attractive to anyone. It doesn't matter how many bells and whistles it has.
I think you guys want to make the coin a success. I just think that in order to do that, you need to think more about making the experience better for the consumer so that they will choose your coin. Provide them some reason to do so. Not just having a point of sale interface or a block explorer, but features that set Hirocoin apart.
For instance, and this is just an example and not meant to be done...
One of the big problems with Bitcoin is fraud. There are scam artists pretending to be real organizations. People send them money because they are tricked. Part of the reason this is so easy, is because the wallet address is always 100% unique.
But what if you wanted a wallet address that was a combination of that uniqueness and also identifiable.
Let's say Hiro takes donations. His wallet could have a public identifier that preceded the wallet address. "HIRO-1EWsTid9jhS9SWRBahi97vxYZeooExz5yo"
That prefix would be tied to his wallet and his wallet only. Nobody else could use it. The address after the prefix could be different and random as it is now. So one is static, tied to the wallet, and the other is dynamic and random. So that as the sender, I KNOW that I'm sending money to Hiro and not a fraudster. In this way, organizations like Bitmain could have BITMAIN-1EWsTid9jhS9SWRBahi97vxYZeooExz5yo as their prefix followed by one of many numbers. And so nobody else could steal their prefix and wallet combination. Customers would have a better sense of reassurance that their money is going to the right company or the right person.
Then you can go around and tell people, "This is the next generation of digital currency, because we have an extra assurance against fraud by design."
You add features like this, and people will clamor to use it because it offers solutions to an existing problem. Solve the problems of today's cryptocurrency and then your cryptocurrency becomes the one that people will favor.
I'm done beating the dead horse. Thanks for listening/reading.
June 17, 2014, 04:15:48 PM
Doesn't this seem counter productive? If people stop mining, and the remaining miners get less coins, they will have little incentive to continue mining, so they will stop and move to another coin that is more profitable. Hastening the leave of the remaining people mining because they will get less and less as more and more people leave.
The opposite being, that since it produces more coins if you mine on it with more hash, that it will dilute the value further and make the existing coins worth less.
It's the worst solution I can imagine.
I think too much effort is being focused on getting people to mine the coin. The miners don't make the coin valuable. The miners just dump the coins for cash to pay for expenses. If you want to improve the coin, you have to make consumer focused features. Give people a reason to use the coin or hold the coin. Otherwise you have people just mining worthless coins. Might as well just release all of them to everyone in a lottery and save the environment the wasted electricity.
You'd be better off providing the "bonus" to people who hold coins. That will at least improve the scarcity of the coin and make them more valuable.
I can print paper coins on the copier all day, but they are still worthless.
The opposite being, that since it produces more coins if you mine on it with more hash, that it will dilute the value further and make the existing coins worth less.
It's the worst solution I can imagine.
I think too much effort is being focused on getting people to mine the coin. The miners don't make the coin valuable. The miners just dump the coins for cash to pay for expenses. If you want to improve the coin, you have to make consumer focused features. Give people a reason to use the coin or hold the coin. Otherwise you have people just mining worthless coins. Might as well just release all of them to everyone in a lottery and save the environment the wasted electricity.
You'd be better off providing the "bonus" to people who hold coins. That will at least improve the scarcity of the coin and make them more valuable.
I can print paper coins on the copier all day, but they are still worthless.
The remaining miners shouldn't be left in that situation as the formula will adjust to provide closer to 240 HIRO per block if the low hashrate becomes the "norm". Your case also assumes that there are no buyers in the market. In the case that the reward drops, the coin supply drops making it that much easier for buys to maintain or increase the current price which would draw the miners back as mining HIRO would become profitable.
In the case of more coins with more miners, we'd reach the max reward of 400 HIRO and eventually close in on 240 HIRO if the high network hashrate becomes the "norm". Also the "high" block reward of 400 that would supposedly dilute the value further for HIRO is no different than our current block reward.
Creating further demand through services and consumer focused features is the goal after the block reward modification is complete. The block explorer implementation into the wallet and a PoS page for merchants and users to use Hirocoin as their preferred payment method are next on the list.
It remains to be seen how this whole thing is implemented and whether people find a way to game the system or not. If I own a huge farm, I might wait for the diff to drop then get in creating much bigger hash than normal and get the 400 block rewards for some time then after the new hash becomes the "norm" and rewards start decreasing, I will just leave and wait for the new low hash to become the "norm", then rinse and repeat. Not sure if I explained the idea well enough.
June 17, 2014, 03:54:57 PM
Doesn't this seem counter productive? If people stop mining, and the remaining miners get less coins, they will have little incentive to continue mining, so they will stop and move to another coin that is more profitable. Hastening the leave of the remaining people mining because they will get less and less as more and more people leave.
The opposite being, that since it produces more coins if you mine on it with more hash, that it will dilute the value further and make the existing coins worth less.
It's the worst solution I can imagine.
I think too much effort is being focused on getting people to mine the coin. The miners don't make the coin valuable. The miners just dump the coins for cash to pay for expenses. If you want to improve the coin, you have to make consumer focused features. Give people a reason to use the coin or hold the coin. Otherwise you have people just mining worthless coins. Might as well just release all of them to everyone in a lottery and save the environment the wasted electricity.
You'd be better off providing the "bonus" to people who hold coins. That will at least improve the scarcity of the coin and make them more valuable.
I can print paper coins on the copier all day, but they are still worthless.
The opposite being, that since it produces more coins if you mine on it with more hash, that it will dilute the value further and make the existing coins worth less.
It's the worst solution I can imagine.
I think too much effort is being focused on getting people to mine the coin. The miners don't make the coin valuable. The miners just dump the coins for cash to pay for expenses. If you want to improve the coin, you have to make consumer focused features. Give people a reason to use the coin or hold the coin. Otherwise you have people just mining worthless coins. Might as well just release all of them to everyone in a lottery and save the environment the wasted electricity.
You'd be better off providing the "bonus" to people who hold coins. That will at least improve the scarcity of the coin and make them more valuable.
I can print paper coins on the copier all day, but they are still worthless.
The remaining miners shouldn't be left in that situation as the formula will adjust to provide closer to 240 HIRO per block if the low hashrate becomes the "norm". Your case also assumes that there are no buyers in the market. In the case that the reward drops, the coin supply drops making it that much easier for buys to maintain or increase the current price which would draw the miners back as mining HIRO would become profitable.
In the case of more coins with more miners, we'd reach the max reward of 400 HIRO and eventually close in on 240 HIRO if the high network hashrate becomes the "norm". Also the "high" block reward of 400 that would supposedly dilute the value further for HIRO is no different than our current block reward.
Creating further demand through services and consumer focused features is the goal after the block reward modification is complete. The block explorer implementation into the wallet and a PoS page for merchants and users to use Hirocoin as their preferred payment method are next on the list.
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