[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 311.

shanem

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Quote from: erre on August 26, 2015, 09:42:45 AM

I sold everything, seems that's the only thing to do like now. Will buy back when this crazyness will stop.

Someone just keep offloading their clams even at a cheap price.
If you can the trade history of clams in poloniex, you can see constant selling even the price is very low.

MidwestMiner

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: SuperClam on August 26, 2015, 02:35:45 AM

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

Good to know, in my opinion the digging of clam is to allow many people to benefit, not just 1 person or entity.

I understand your concern.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

In a case like this you have to assume either the following;
- Person/entity found a bug and exploiting
- Actually have all those valid addresses, which i find still unlikely
- Malicious, they stole those addresses

Although it is common practice to call claiming CLAMs "digging" or even "claiming", the reality is that the distribution is much more fundamental and less complicated.
A bug/exploit would need involve the fundamental guarantees of all crypto currencies.

In short, there is no evidence at all to suggest there is any exploit.

There is little doubt that the user claiming does control the private keys for the coins they are claiming.
How they gained access to those keys is anyone's guess.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

Based on the above,
- Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit
- if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime
m2c

There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any exploit.
If there is an exploit; I highly doubt the user begins by applying it to CLAM, when there are so many juicy BTC out there to steal (It would almost certainly apply to BTC as well).

Again, a change to the "claim" process is highly unlikely; and not presently planned.

Seems fairly reasonable to assume that the entity digging is actually an exchange or larger bitcoin service. Outside of this there really isn't much reason for anyone to have generated 10000s of private keys with a non-zero balance. I would guess we are talking maybe an older dice service or early exchange. My money might be on BTC-E or Satoshidice wising up to the fact that they can dig for 'free money' using the private keys of their former clients.

erre

legendary

Activity: 1680

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I sold everything, seems that's the only thing to do like now. Will buy back when this crazyness will stop.

Swordsoffreedom

legendary

Activity: 2884

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: shanem on August 25, 2015, 09:01:56 AM

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

The wall was just tested again on polo it held up but it pushed down to 0.0041 for a bit
Looks like the dump is still ongoing.

That said well at least Bitcoins not broken just a digging machine cough I wonder if at this point I should just call them a prospector or a miner digging up all those blocks.

sgravina

sr. member

Activity: 451

Merit: 250

Quote from: SuperClam on August 26, 2015, 05:54:01 AM

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:51:45 AM

100% thanks - got it )

The only dumb question, is the question not asked.

Most of what we think is dumb questions.

SuperClam

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CLAM Developer

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:51:45 AM

100% thanks - got it )

Sure, my pleasure Grin

The only dumb question, is the question not asked.

Cheers!

gordob

member

Activity: 148

Merit: 10

Quote from: SuperClam on August 26, 2015, 05:48:06 AM

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

Ok, maybe i have not been clear enough & obviously not technical in this regard.
My query "Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit" specifically for the dig process with clam clinet, BTC is not a proof-of-stake coin so i don't see the relevance.
- Due diligence is all that is asked

I think you have been plenty clear.
Maybe I have not.

Check what, exactly?

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit" specifically for the dig process

There is no "dig process".

A "dig" is nothing more than a transaction.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

BTC is not a proof-of-stake coin so i don't see the relevance.

A "dig" transaction is secured by the same asymmetric key cryptography that is used in BTC.
It is, in fact, a standard transaction.

It is very relevant.

If someone can sign a transaction to "dig" an output, without the private key which corresponds to the output/public key - then they can steal every CLAM, BTC, LTC, etc. in existence.

Proof-Of-Work/Proof-Of-Stake, used to secure the state of the chain, is not related.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

- Due diligence is all that is asked

The chain is reviewed daily by multiple parties who have an interest in the system.
The code in question deals with standard asymmetric key signatures.

If there is an "exploit" - then you, and the world, have bigger problems than CLAM.

100% thanks - got it )

SuperClam

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1002

CLAM Developer

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

Ok, maybe i have not been clear enough & obviously not technical in this regard.
My query "Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit" specifically for the dig process with clam clinet, BTC is not a proof-of-stake coin so i don't see the relevance.
- Due diligence is all that is asked

I think you have been plenty clear.
Maybe I have not.

Check what, exactly?

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit" specifically for the dig process

There is no "dig process".

A "dig" is nothing more than a transaction.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

BTC is not a proof-of-stake coin so i don't see the relevance.

A "dig" transaction is secured by the same asymmetric key cryptography that is used in BTC.
It is, in fact, a standard transaction.

It is very relevant.

If someone can sign a transaction to "dig" an output, without the private key which corresponds to the output/public key - then they can steal every CLAM, BTC, LTC, etc. in existence.

Proof-Of-Work/Proof-Of-Stake, used to secure the state of the chain, is not related.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 05:32:31 AM

- Due diligence is all that is asked

The chain is reviewed daily by multiple parties who have an interest in the system.
The code in question deals with standard asymmetric key signatures.

If there is an "exploit" - then you, and the world, have bigger problems than CLAM.

gordob

member

Activity: 148

Merit: 10

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

Based on the above,
- Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit
- if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime
m2c

Quote from: superclam

There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any exploit.
If there is an exploit; I highly doubt the user begins by applying it to CLAM, when there are so many juicy BTC out there to steal (It would almost certainly apply to BTC as well).

Again, a change to the "claim" process is highly unlikely; and not presently planned.

Ok, maybe i have not been clear enough & obviously not technical in this regard.

My query "Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit" specifically for the dig process with clam client, BTC is not a proof-of-stake coin so i don't see the relevance.
- Due diligence is all that is asked

SuperClam

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1002

CLAM Developer

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

Good to know, in my opinion the digging of clam is to allow many people to benefit, not just 1 person or entity.

I understand your concern.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

In a case like this you have to assume either the following;
- Person/entity found a bug and exploiting
- Actually have all those valid addresses, which i find still unlikely
- Malicious, they stole those addresses

Although it is common practice to call claiming CLAMs "digging" or even "claiming", the reality is that the distribution is much more fundamental and less complicated.
A bug/exploit would need involve the fundamental guarantees of all crypto currencies.

In short, there is no evidence at all to suggest there is any exploit.

There is little doubt that the user claiming does control the private keys for the coins they are claiming.
How they gained access to those keys is anyone's guess.

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:22:18 AM

Based on the above,
- Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit
- if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime
m2c

There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any exploit.
If there is an exploit; I highly doubt the user begins by applying it to CLAM, when there are so many juicy BTC out there to steal (It would almost certainly apply to BTC as well).

Again, a change to the "claim" process is highly unlikely; and not presently planned.

gordob

member

Activity: 148

Merit: 10

Quote from: SuperClam on August 26, 2015, 02:13:34 AM

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:07:43 AM

xploited - based on the above i assume this person has made themselves known?

Not to my knowledge; though some people have some theories of possible entities.

The 3%~ figure comes from assuming:

A. The distribution was shuffled before sending; i.e. it is randomly distributed over distribution blocks.
B. Claims are proceeding in an ordered block-by-block fashion.
C. The percentage claimed from previous blocks.
D. The assumption that blocks "ahead" have not been previously claimed by the user.
E. The assumption that blocks "ahead" will be claimed eventually.
F. The assumption that, given the random distribution, blocks "ahead" will contain proportional claims.

So, a few assumptions are being applied to come up with the estimates Grin

Good to know, in my opinion the digging of clam is to allow many people to benefit, not just 1 person or entity.
In a case like this you have to assume either the following;
- Person/entity found a bug and exploiting
- Actually have all those valid addresses, which i find still unlikely
- Malicious, they stole those addresses

Based on the above,
- Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit
- if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime

m2c

SuperClam

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1002

CLAM Developer

Quote from: gordob on August 26, 2015, 02:07:43 AM

xploited - based on the above i assume this person has made themselves known?

Not to my knowledge; though some people have some theories of possible entities.

The 3%~ figure comes from assuming:

A. The distribution was shuffled before sending; i.e. it is randomly distributed over distribution blocks.
B. Claims are proceeding in an ordered block-by-block fashion.
C. The percentage claimed from previous blocks.
D. The assumption that blocks "ahead" have not been previously claimed by the user.
E. The assumption that blocks "ahead" will be claimed eventually.
F. The assumption that, given the random distribution, blocks "ahead" will contain proportional claims.

So, a few assumptions are being applied to come up with the estimates Grin

gordob

member

Activity: 148

Merit: 10

Quote from: xploited on August 25, 2015, 04:20:48 PM

Quote

What do you mean by potential many clams? Are you saying that u own alot of btc address where u can digg clams out off?

I was saying that the only way we can know the person actually has 3% of the clams is for him to claim them, aka move them. Currently its implied he has 3% of all clams by the way he's been claiming but he has yet to actually move the entire 3% it seems likely he has.

Chilly is correct also though. I am including myself as a current clam investor

xploited - based on the above i assume this person has made themselves known?

Yannic

sr. member

Activity: 356

Merit: 259

airdrop-pepe.art

Keep CALM, Keep CLAMs Wink

thimo

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

thimo the dev

Can we do such giveaway like CLAM for MAPC?
We could share our both communities wallets to get freebies which would change ie into free coffee at local shops that work with our app

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: salex8216 on August 25, 2015, 02:57:38 PM

I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat

Quote

It's possible for anyone to submit fixes to the CLAM website. I just submitted a pull request to fix the date:
https://github.com/nochowderforyou/nochowderforyou.github.io/pull/3

Importing of this wallet do nothing.
Where is my CLAM Huh

We're going to need a little more detail. Which specific address was funded on 12th May 2014?

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: statdude on August 25, 2015, 04:34:52 PM

With such a high staking rate, within a few months huge digs will mean nothing anyway.

It takes almost a year to stake 500k CLAMs:

>>> 500e3 / 60 / 24
347.22222222222223

347 days...

EGStrategies

member

Activity: 80

Merit: 10

Quote from: statdude on August 25, 2015, 01:14:14 AM

pretty brutal for clam holders. any way to know what % of dug up clams have been moved (to exchanges?)

maybe I'm stupid for not caring too much that between btc's price and CLAM's in the past week I've lost around 8k usd in value

I believe the fundamental value of just-dice and clam is so much better than anything else in crypto that I just can't be worried. I have actually been less stressed about clam now that our melt up has ended and we are in a price level that will shake out the bandwagon hoppers and pure speculators

long live the great clam and just-dice

SuperClam

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1002

CLAM Developer

Given the recent issues surrounding BTC at the moment, an issue was posted to the client repository a couple of days ago.

Things like this shouldn't happen in a vacuum.
Comments and opinions would be appreciated.

https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/issues/218

tspacepilot

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1081

I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

Quote from: salex8216 on August 25, 2015, 02:57:38 PM

I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat

Importing of this wallet do nothing.
Where is my CLAM Huh

It's not non-zero that matters, it's > than some established dust limit. I think that it was said upthread that this was something like 10KSat. If you're sure you had more than that in your wallet on 12 May 2014 maybe you wouldn't mind posting the relevant address so that someone else could check verify your issue.

Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 311. (Read 1151252 times)