Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 2113. (Read 9723796 times)

Thats because in a democracy, you have a personal stake in society simply by existing. You *are* a masternode.

In an monetary or corporate asset, however, you don't have any personal stake in it unless you own it, and even at that your stake is still proportional. If I buy 1 share in Apple for $126, 92 cents, I won't have as much voting power as Mr Icahn who bought $3 billion worth of shares.

If I invest 200 hours in building myself a custom guitar, I'll reasonably have more influence its development than you if you invested 5 minutes putting the strings on.

Is anyone seriously arguing that that's a problematic or even unhealthy state of affairs ? In that case I'd be taking decisions with almost nothing to loose ergo = wreckless meanwhile a big investor (by conventional logic) agonizes over every tiny policy but both our votes count the same ?

It isn't capitalism or any other "ism". It's just plain fairness and commercial logic.

The project goes in whatever direction those who are most interested (and therefore most invested) want it to. Minority investors do get something in return for their minority investment - minority risk. Thats what represents the balance of their holding and the large investor's.

Exactly! 

To Wozzek's credit I don't think he's expressing "I have a problem with this" more that he's trying to understand how it works and whether his maths is correct.

What you've said Tok is absolutely correct. The concept of ROI allowing more acquisition of ROI instruments, thereby compounding value or worth, is the same for almost any example across most societies that operate via personal property rights.

The one thing that differs though in Dash's case that may be of cause for concern is (as Wozzek is asking/commenting on) the voting rights.

If I own 1 apartment in a large city and have tenants in that apartment I'm collecting rent from, it will take me a long time to use the rental income to acquire another apartment that I can then rent out (excluding leveraged mortgages and all of those concepts that can't currently be directly compared to the ownership and funding of MNs).

If someone else owns 1000 apartments in a large city, their rental income is likely to provision the acquisition of more income generating apartments far more rapidly than what I can achieve.

So far nothing new under the sun. The rich get richer - the essence of capitalism as we know it.

The big difference is that me with 1 apartment (in theory, but perhaps not in practise where political persuasion can be bought) has the same voting rights to elect my parliamentary representative as the person with 1000 apartments or indeed the tenants renting those apartments.

In the MN realm, voting power is based on MN ownership so "the rich get richer" adage applies AS WELL AS "the rich have more votes" (and again, in some ways, "nothing new under the sun") but it does have the potential for abuse or fracturing of the community's views on what projects/developments should be undertaken.

But I don't think it's a major issue.

I look at it in terms of inherent "equality": anyone who buys more, gets more.

I don't see what your problem with this is - in fact thats the whole idea of any ROI instrument.

At a technical level, the network doesn't care who owns what. The concept of ownership doesn't exist in crypto - it's just a 1000 nodes doing work for the network and as far as it's concerned they are 1000 distinct nodes.

As far as the 'investing' aspect of it goes, if you invest in mining hardware and then invest all your returns of subsequent years in mining hardware, you'll experience a similar non-linear growth in your returns, as you would with any investment instrument which delivered an ROI.

The other side of the 'coin' is that if you keep investing all your returns in masternodes, you'll never be going ski-ing, relaxing in the bahamas, or taking a trip on Richard Branson's space plane. All your returns are going into doing service for the network which - again - is according to the design objective of this policy.

Thanks.

That "inherent inequality" is probably not a biggie, money wise, some will always have more and much more than the others, but it also creates inequality in voting power. It is an interesting problem to mull over given the Self-sustainable Decentralized Governance by Blockchain we just tried voting for it and perhaps requires finding a better way?

My genius's friend comment on both points was:

"Yes if your interest is below the chunking size. ​Insightful observation.
You cannot reinvest any amount below the "chunk" size, so untill you get above it you do not earn compound interest.
But if you compare say 1,000,000 and 10,000,000 the difference become miniscule.
So you need about a minimum 20,000 coins to earn 1,000 and get on the compounding curve.

​It is late I am headed to bed but I think this is correct. ​

The way out is to allow the MN to be any amount over 1000, not just chunks of 1000 and t o pay interest on that amount. This might impact the voting scheme if it is 1 vote/MN not 1 vote/coin provided coin>1000.

Interesting."

Compounding interest is an exponential function not linear.

So compounding MN earnings or any other investment that gives you some % it's the same thing, it's exponential and yes both bring "inherent inequality" the way you defined it.

It's kind of strange to draw that conclusion from my question. I asked about (possible) inherent inequality of the MN system, assuming the "compounding" possibility your widgets (or my CDs in original post) are not getting:

1 masternode = 1,000 coins = at 5% gives 50 coins "interest"
1,000 masternodes = 1,000,000 coins = at 5% gives 50,000 coins "interest" or another 50 Masternodes.

So now he has (compounding his profit) 1,050 MN vs. my 1 (plus 50 coins)
The 2nd year, his 1,050 MN gets 52500 coins to my 50. so, on the second year he has 1102 (plus 0.5 to invest with splawik) Masternodes and I still have one MN (and 100 coins as interest)

And he does not have 1:1 profit, as you were screaming here, but, assuming he invests his profit, in two years 1.2 : 1 profit. And this discrepancy grows as long as he re-invest the dashes into new MN, which real Otoh is doing.


I am also not so sure why a legit question that I concluded with: "Math is a tricky thingy and I am not sure I understand it but you guys are smarter than me. What's wrong with my calculations or, if nothing, isn't that MN "compounding" can create a much wider wealth gap than it is the case in fiat?" deserves such an explosion of hatred and quite insane insults?

I just asked - "smarter than me" guys - to take a look at what I was thinking of and help me understand the "tricky math" I am "not sure I understand" so I'd get the full (correct) picture of the "problem" that might and might not be a problem and, with that new knowledge move on. Seeing rabies salivary glands spitting all over the message kind of does not help me in getting and answer.



Again, this is a tad strange to see you concluded all of this out of my math musings. I see an issue and I asked about it so now you're not being myopic you're behaving insanely - you put words in my mouth, draw conclusions that make no sense and have nothing to do with the question I asked. Granted, you've given me a monthly tune of the month, thank you indeed, but all of that hysterical screaming did not answer my question.

"The MORE MN's you own  = The more DASH/$$ you make," is correct of course but does not address the question. It is not linear (like in my first example, $1M and $1K both get 5% interest but the guy with a thousand times more money would still have a thousand times more money years in the future, in that particular account getting 5% interest) but it seems more parabolic, the potential growth and the difference in "wealth". (1000 : 1 vs 1102 : 1)

im very sorry for acting like a maniacs, but you got us there with that COIN thingy, edit that please

There you go buddy

https://dashtalk.org/threads/masternode-on-raspberry-pi-2-model-b.4083/

I'm calling it a night but in the fairness of understanding Dash more, and supporting it.

How might I go about setting up a master node on my rPi ?

watch closely on that picture, on right side... that guy on bike that is running away ... that would be the guy who put the coin next to DASH to look it more sexy on his ugly vulture website

edit, no pills ... they are centralized

Dash is like weed, you cant centralize it

we are chilled believe me

i had so much laugh when i imagined mangledblue holding cactus, and me trying to calm him down hahahaha

well maybe some nerd-rage from m.blue but nothing we haven't seen

Whow Whow WHOWWW

can we please bring this down a notch !
what is going on here
no need to flip out  !

relaxxxx

Please eat something, possibly some BBQ Meat... or else we could be like these two guys, OFC YOU WOULD BE THE ONE WITH CACTUS




Edit:

Its almost time to get pay on MN, and blocks are around 7 DASH atm ... n0ice! gimme some sugar

will take that pint and drink in one sip ...

mangled, i think they will punish us, we are being too much emotional when it comes to Digital Cash

now you calling us idiots, for what? for telling you that you are here just to FUD over with that COIN?

who the hell are you to add something to the DASH... r u trying to rebrand us one more time?

again to be honest, your site sucks because you didnt even put 1% effor to look good, to be functional, to use our proud INSTANTX ... nothing, you just installed dashd and what?

p.s. MangledBlue, me and you are some kind of Alpha and Omega, 1st on front defending Dash ?

I added the 'coin' for the simplicity of not having Dash (DASH) on the site.

FWIW, if no one pleys it fine if they do w/e... its a service Im offering that doesn't cost me shit to run because I already have the equipment going for other stuff.

This will be my last post addressing idiots such as you two. Trust me, dont trust me... I dont care because thats your fuckin call.

Edit: Way to twist words... I dont care if you trust me or not because it's your call. Just like it's your call to get a coke or pepsi with your order at w/e fast food places you dine at once n a while

MoreBloodWine, you just blew it with this, WHO THE FUCK IS DASH_COIN? COIN? WHAT COIN? we are not COIN we are DASH

i aint gonna play nothing on your site, you just proved us that you dont give a shit about DASH, you are here to earn money... hell, your website name tell us all (SPEND_YOUR_MONEY) ... you couldn’t even type name of the coin right...

GO AWAY please you are on my ignore list

p.s. if you gonna build DASH lotto, please be more creative, this is pathetic tbh

Good evening everyone from the beautiful Okanagan Valley, British Columbia Canada.  Beautiful sunset...and a pleasant night cap and off to bed.   

Love this time of the year!!! Hope some of you make it to visiting us up here.  Cheers everyone.  Richard

Did I say hey people put your money down you can trust me ?

No, I simply offered a service for people to use should they wish. Just because you had a finger or two up your ass in the past from scammers doesn't mean mine will ever be included so how about you keep your long rants to yourself ?

Also, FWIW, I don't have to put out verifiable info to prove myself. If someone really wanted to know who I am and where I live bad enough they could probably do so on their own in the span of a few hrs.

Edit: Oh, and just for shits n giggles, maybe you missed this part of my TR from a well respected forum member who barely knew me at the time...

** Had him help me purchase btc from coinbase because my bank account was still pending. Trusted him with over $2.5k and he followed through. **