Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 2827. (Read 9723748 times)

Quote from: GhostPlayer on March 09, 2015, 06:36:48 AM

Quote from: illodin on November 09, 2014, 01:08:12 PM

I'm not going to shill the coin I work on but its certainly strong in terms of being fungible. Other issues I will acknowledge but thats OT here.

See, THIS is fruitful civil debating. And no problem mentioning other coins, as long as its in a constructive manner. Please explain to me in 2 lines why Monero is fungible.

Because coins are cryptographically not traceable or linkable (proofs in the white paper).

Tell me please what will happen to traceability and linkability when the cypher you use is finally cracked? (you surely know this will happen some day)

I guess we'll see. It uses mature well-vetted cryptography with a very good reputation. It is also quite plausible that additional cryptography will be added in the future and coins moved through multiple different cryptographic schemes, in which case breaking one wouldn't do much. Even today, though, people can use mixers as an added layer of obfuscation if they want to cover that base.

No. Darksend keeps the anonymity OFF CHAIN, no future computing power will break its anonymization. Whereas if you put the anonymity ON CHAIN, i.e. use cryptography to encrypt the mixing a math breakthrough or quantum computer or bug in the encryption or an oversight in the code will deanonymize your WHOLE CHAIN.

Correctly implemented coinjoin with off chain mixing is the best way to implement realtime scalable and usable anonymity, period. Just ask AnonyMint.

GhostPlayer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Wow !! What a magic moment. We all agree, and not even to disagree.
Here's a toast everyone!
People, let off smooth out of ignore lists. He is showing a lot a reasonability and not trolling.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: JGCMiner on March 09, 2015, 06:49:49 AM

Yeah if the only goal was to be the most anonymous coin then Monero would probably win, but as Tok has explained on many occasions, "most anonymous" does not nessesary mean "best coin". DRK offers vastly improved anonymity over Bitcoin amongst other advantages like instant confirmations.

I agree with you there, for the most part.

I'm not really sure about "vastly improved" over Bitcoin though. Bitcoin can be fairly anonymous if you use the tools that are available in terms of mixers, coinjoin, moving coins between anonymous exchanges, etc. Most or all of these also have the advantage of vastly higher volume, which inherently improves anonymity in a mixing-based system. They all have flaws, but taken together you can get most of what you want that way with Bitcoin today.

I do agree DRK gives you mixing more conveniently and user-friendly than Bitcoin, and has other nice features like instantX.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: coins101 on March 09, 2015, 06:42:57 AM

Quote from: coins101 on March 09, 2015, 06:23:41 AM

Quote from: smooth on March 09, 2015, 06:10:36 AM

-snip-

This sort of thing never ends very well. Just look at the BCX ~ Monero saga. Didn't seem to go anywhere, other than impacting on XMRs price.

Just avoid opinions. DRK is open source. Go break it. Show evidence that the anonymity doesn't work. Then there is no further discussion required.

That bogus argument has been rehashed a thousand times. If your architecture is weak it does't mean I can personally break it, but powerful adversaries can. That's not how you design -- or analyze -- secure systems. Kristof Atlas pointed out some legitimate criticisms of your system, he didn't "go break it."

Trying to be civil, attempt nr.2.

Go and sell your argument to merchants. If they accept your pitch, you win.

None of these coins is supported by many merchants. Even Bitcoin which is miles ahead of the others is still almost entirely speculation if you look at the volume of activity.

That will matter in the future, though, sure.

JGCMiner

hero member

Activity: 611

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Yeah if the only goal was to be the most anonymous coin then Monero would probably win, but as Tok has explained on many occasions, "most anonymous" does not nessesary mean "best coin". DRK offers vastly improved anonymity over Bitcoin amongst other advantages like instant confirmations.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: BrainShutdown on March 09, 2015, 06:44:03 AM

Quote from: GhostPlayer on March 09, 2015, 06:36:48 AM

Quote from: GhostPlayer on March 09, 2015, 06:41:46 AM

I'm not going to shill the coin I work on but its certainly strong in terms of being fungible. Other issues I will acknowledge but thats OT here.

See, THIS is fruitful civil debating. And no problem mentioning other coins, as long as its in a constructive manner. Please explain to me in 2 lines why Monero is fungible.

Because coins are cryptographically not traceable or linkable (proofs in the white paper).

Tell me please what will happen to traceability and linkability when the cypher you use is finally cracked? (you surely know this will happen some day)

I guess we'll see. It uses mature well-vetted cryptography with a very good reputation. It is also quite plausible that additional cryptography will be added in the future and coins moved through multiple different cryptographic schemes, in which case breaking one wouldn't do much. Even today, though, people can use mixers as an added layer of obfuscation if they want to cover that base.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Because coins are cryptographically not traceable or linkable (proofs in the white paper).

See, I didn't know Monero could achieve that. Thank you, now I learnt something new and positive.

Thank you.

We can certainly agree about some things, disagree about others. For example, I'm pretty damn impressed with InstantX and I think that has a lot of promise, though also quite a few challenges ahead.

BrainShutdown

legendary

Activity: 1052

Merit: 1004

Quote from: GhostPlayer on March 09, 2015, 06:36:48 AM

I'm not going to shill the coin I work on but its certainly strong in terms of being fungible. Other issues I will acknowledge but thats OT here.

See, THIS is fruitful civil debating. And no problem mentioning other coins, as long as its in a constructive manner. Please explain to me in 2 lines why Monero is fungible.

Because coins are cryptographically not traceable or linkable (proofs in the white paper).

Tell me please what will happen to traceability and linkability when the cypher you use is finally cracked? (you surely know this will happen some day)

coins101

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Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: coins101 on March 09, 2015, 06:23:41 AM

Quote from: smooth on March 09, 2015, 06:10:36 AM

-snip-

This sort of thing never ends very well. Just look at the BCX ~ Monero saga. Didn't seem to go anywhere, other than impacting on XMRs price.

Just avoid opinions. DRK is open source. Go break it. Show evidence that the anonymity doesn't work. Then there is no further discussion required.

That bogus argument has been rehashed a thousand times. If your architecture is weak it does't mean I can personally break it, but powerful adversaries can. That's not how you design -- or analyze -- secure systems. Kristof Atlas pointed out some legitimate criticisms of your system, he didn't "go break it."

Trying to be civil, attempt nr.2.

Go and sell your argument to merchants. If they accept your pitch, you win.

GhostPlayer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Because coins are cryptographically not traceable or linkable (proofs in the white paper).

See, I didn't know Monero could achieve that. Now I learnt something new and positive.
Plus, you did it in one line! Well done.

Thank you.

BrainShutdown

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Activity: 1052

Merit: 1004

Quote from: GhostPlayer on March 09, 2015, 06:36:48 AM

That bogus argument has been rehashed a thousand times. If your architecture is weak it does't mean I can personally break it, but powerful adversaries can. That's not how you design -- or analyze -- secure systems. Kristof Atlas pointed out some legitimate criticisms of your system, he didn't "go break it."

Exactly! (you are in a winning spree I see)

Instead of trolling we took the criticism and improved the system and will continue to do so for a very long time and the market knows it Cool

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

I'm not going to shill the coin I work on but its certainly strong in terms of being fungible. Other issues I will acknowledge but thats OT here.

See, THIS is fruitful civil debating. And no problem mentioning other coins, as long as its in a constructive manner. Please explain to me in 2 lines why Monero is fungible.

Because coins are cryptographically not traceable or linkable (proofs in the white paper).

GhostPlayer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: GhostPlayer on March 09, 2015, 06:33:30 AM

I'm not going to shill the coin I work on but its certainly strong in terms of being fungible. Other issues I will acknowledge but thats OT here.

See, THIS is fruitful civil debating. And no problem mentioning other coins, as long as its in a constructive manner.
Please explain to me in 2 lines why Monero is fungible.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

There we go again... Since Kristov saw the code, DS went order of bananas higher in anon. And we're testnetting a huge pineapple as we type. And then more and more and more in the roadmap.

There is absolutely no-one who can even come close to our code, in this day and age, in order of cryptographic complexity and intractability. Please point to me any other coin out there that is fungible, beside FIAT. Please...

Bring proof or continue acting like a troll.

I'm not going to shill the coin I work on but its certainly strong in terms of being fungible. Other issues and challenges I will acknowledge but thats OT here.

GhostPlayer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000