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Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 3208. (Read 9723858 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
I WROTE THIS FOR THE FTC THREAD, BUT I THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD FIND THE BITS ON DARKCOIN INTERESTING?
...
This is what has happened on the X11 coins, there were modifications that allowed larger miners to get 50% more hash-power then the official sgminer release, those with these modifications mined and dumped their coins on the exchanges for 4 months, which is why all the X11 coins prices are so low. Now, those X11 kernels and bins have been leaked and X11 coins have reduced sell pressures on them and better price stability.

For example: had those X11 Kernels and Bin been leaked in August 2014, instead of December 2014 Darkcoin's price would still be at 0.01btc instead of it's current 0.006btc. Similarly, FTC price fall from 0.00006BTC to 0.00004BTC can be (evidently proved) blamed on these this modifications being used by a small group of miners to sell down FTC on the exchanges. 

The analysis does not factor for the "how many coins are mined by miners" parameter.

Darkcoin has a low emission rate of just 2800 coins per day of which only 80% (currently lower) go to miners and the rest to masternode owners. In other words, inflation (no matter how the coins were mined) cannot seriously account for a drastic drop in price. The situation with Mintpal had a far more serious effect since there was dumping like no tomorrow at unreasonable prices (down to 0.002x). Mintpal had something like 400-500.000 DRKs in their wallets.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

Anyone remember fiatleak.com from rampup days ?

Take a look at it now - it resembles December 2013 but this time much more buying from the west and loads of gongs...http://fiatleak.com

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 505
What is the next development for Darkcoin?

We are currently working to incorporate Bitcoin 0.9.4 into Darkcoin's code. We are putting the finishing touches on a radically improved Darksend, then it's off to test InstantX, which when released, will make Darkcoin the only crypto to be on a level with Visa/MasterCard!


its already done with bitcoin 0.9.4 and darksend, we are in the final testing phase currently. expect a release soon.
legendary
Activity: 1030
Merit: 1006
What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/

"According to the following analysis done by the user rockettilt on r/Bitcoin Butterfly Labs has atleast 94,000 bitcoins still in their possesion."

Yes, that does very bad

And nobody came with idea to refund with coins ...
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1023
I just want to take a moment to Thank my DRK Brothers and Sisters

Each and every one of you have a place in DRK
As much as I want to mention screen/names - I shall refrain

A decentralized community is exactly what we are - spread about the world

(many lines of txt deleted)

WE ARE DRK !!!

(get's a little emotional)

 - - - FADES TO DRK - - -



very cool mangled
I feel exactly the same !

" we are dark "
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/

Sounds logical.  That means the bottom is yet to come.

Well not really they say, at the end, that is still 90,000 unspent btc. So if this is true the end is not here yet...
sr. member
Activity: 426
Merit: 250
What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/

Sounds logical.  That means the bottom is yet to come.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1014
Dash Nation Founder | CATV Host
What is the next development for Darkcoin?

We are currently working to incorporate Bitcoin 0.9.4 into Darkcoin's code. We are putting the finishing touches on a radically improved Darksend, then it's off to test InstantX, which when released, will make Darkcoin the only crypto to be on a level with Visa/MasterCard!

sr. member
Activity: 394
Merit: 250
What is the next development for Darkcoin?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1014
Dash Nation Founder | CATV Host

If any of you folks require ammunition to combat tulip analogies floating around at the moment, I just posted some here.

This ought to be put up on TaoOfSaatochi's list of articles.  Very well expressed Cheesy

As you wish, me lady!

New on DarkBlogs:

Comparing Bitcoins to Tulips (A Q/A by toknormal)


Cheers,

Tao
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
@Tokenormal,

I have really been enjoying your posts, updates and analysis of the ongoing "crisis in crypto." I also really enjoyed your report on tulip-mania, and am taking the liberty of quoting from your post in another thread, along with some other thoughts here. Keep up the good work, (and sleep well Wink)


Yeah, but most of us get paid in fiat and have to pay our bills in the same currency. What benefit does changing into a different currency have for this? So maybe for my savings then, but I'd have to have faith in bitcoins as an asset, and as per original post, it's not gold, its a tulip bulb.

Ive been reading your posts throughought this thread and it strikes me that you appear to be quite oblivious of a couple of principles that make money work.

First of all, the term 'intrinsic value' is an ambiguous term. It means different things to different people so is usually subjective and not of much analytical use. From the point of view of analysing money, it's more instructive to split everything in the universe into 2 types of value:

[1] - utility value
[2] - monetary value

i.e. You would acquire something of 'utility value' because you wanted to keep it and make use of it whereas you would acquire something that had 'monetary value' because you could exchange it for something else.

Note one very important thing here - in an ideal world, these two are almost mutually exclusive. i.e. things which are used as money should have little utility value, otherwise they'd go out of circulation. Conversely things of high utility value do not get used as money. In a less than ideal world, something which functions well as money would possibly have some utility value but its monetary value (i.e. its value to the economy as a token of exchange) should be far higher than its utility value.

Now, if we consider gold, we can observe that most of the world's gold supply is locked up in vaults not doing anything. That's because it's of more value as a token of exchange than as a tooth filling/hi-fi connector or whatever.

Gold does not have 'intrinsic value' in the sense that its value is independent of its role in the economy, rather it acquired monetary value because it possessed certain qualities that made it work as a token of exchange - namely that it was uncounterfeitable, fungible, reasonably attractive etc etc. There is absolutely nothing distinguishing gold from any other metal other than those qualities. It is the fact that it was adopted over time in a monetary role that gave it value.

It's a fundamental principle that any 'token' which becomes adopted in such a monetary role will acquire an associated monetary value that is far in excess of its utility value. There are loads of examples of this throughout the commercial world. Take for example a kids funfair that uses plastic tokens to get on the rides. You have to buy one of those plastic tokens at a premium of many hundreds of percent over what it costs in the hardware shop because at the funfair it is operating in a monetary role.

Now consider the case of cryptocurrencies. If we think of an electronic market to be the kids funfair above (i.e. a closed economic platform) then cryptocurrencies are THE only form of asset that can perform a monetary role on that platform. Up until now we have needed counterparties (banks) to 'mimic' electronic money by simply holding a single number which represents an account balance. When someone transfers money from one account to another, there's no sense electronically in which a transfer occurs - all that happens is that the two counterparties holding balances on behalf of their respective clients agree to decrement one balance and increment the other. This requires a monumental amount of co-ordinated and labour intensive infrastructure and at the end of it all there's no audit trail apart from what each bank happens to record in their own books.

This is why cryptocurrencies are bound to become extremely valueable - precisely because they have *very little* utility value but function superbly as an uncounterfeitable monetary token that does not require counterparties.

Intrinsic value has nothing to do with it. Any medium that can function well as a monetary unit without counterparties is of immense value to a commercial economy. Precious metals have already proven that over millenia, only precious metals cannot travel through wires. Their 'monetary role' worked in the physical world, but now that the world's markets have been transported onto electronic platforms there is a gaping need for a monetary asset that is electronic in origin and independent of counterparties.

Bitcoin isn't the first. It's the first one that worked. Man was attempting to do this for about 25 years before bitcoin came on the scene and there were several spectacular failures, but Bitcoin worked - the double spend problem was solved and the blockchain parameters turned out to be reasonably stable.

The tulips could have worked fine in a monetary role but the problem they had was that they couldn't compete with precious metals. They were not ubiquitous enough, not durable enough and not distinct enough so they lost adoption, and with that their associated monetary value.

With Bitcoin, on the other hand, the opposite applies. Precious metals cannot complete with cryptocurrencies, even though that may seem a profound statement to make right at this moment in time. It is however a true statement because the electronic crypto token posses all the monetary properties that precious metals did plus one crucial addition - it originates on and has mobility in an electronic trading network.

The electronic trading platform has only been around for a few decades and new forms of money take time to accrue value which they can only do through adoption into a monetary role (like the plastic funfair tokens).

So if you want to judge whether bitcoin has monetary value or not, don't look at the price, look at the adoption. If that starts declining then you might have a point with the tulip analogy.

Until then all bets are off.


Excellent post TokeN. I would offer one slight clarification that I am sure you would agree with: During the Dutch Tulip craze, tulips were never envisioned as money, nor as proxies for it. They were pretty things that were valued simply for their beauty. Their utility in beautifying property led to a rapid increase in price which attracted investors who had no interest in utility as "property beautifiers," but only in their utility as "portfolio enhancers." The investors created a "tulip market" which attracted more investors, which had the result of quickly pushing tulips out of the price range of humble gardeners and botanical breeders who did not already have them. The financial market killed the flower market and eventually destroyed the wealth of many common folks who came late to the table. (Much as we see happening today in another "market." Cry)

Financiers are constantly trying to "monetize" all sorts of investment vehicles, but this does not mean they conceive of the vehicles as money--simply another means for them to accumulate it. The relative fungible, divisible, and stable supply of precious metals have made them the preferred units of exchange (money) as you have well pointed out. In point of fact, BTC is potentially more fungible, divisible, and stable, than metals ever could be. leading to the intense interest by investors. Less mercenary types may not understand these attributes, and value BTC based on its ease of electronic transfer, and supposed privacy enhancement. Time has revealed that the later is specious, and it remains to be seen if BTC can maintain its dominant position as a crypto-currency, or if the baton will be passed to a more privacy-centric coin such as DRK.

Today investors are being flushed out of crypto-currencies in general, again bringing the price into a range more suitable for common folks. I for one am glad that I can beautify my property with tulips without risking my families financial well being, and look forward to protecting my family's privacy in the same way.

Peace to you all...
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1004
I WROTE THIS FOR THE FTC THREAD, BUT I THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD FIND THE BITS ON DARKCOIN INTERESTING?

Yeah, the problem with Feathercoin (like Vertcoin use of Lyra2) is that the larger miners have modifications that increases hashpower on their GPU's by up to 93% e.g. hobbyist or small miners get 320khs and big miners get 590khs.

Wolf0 (SGminer developer) has said, he has found modifications that increases hashing by up 93%.

Secondly, there is a bottleneck on R9 290's and R9 290x GPU's that limit hashing output to the same as a 280x. There is clearly a fix for this problem, as well, not shared with the community (hobbyists).

In normal business scenarios: the Feathercoin organisation and other neoscrypt algo coins would buy up these modifications and make them public to all miners to eliminate sell motives in the exchanges and ensure higher prices and stable prices.

However, this has not been done and those mining with the modifications have a huge incentive to dump their FTC on the market crashing the price and then maybe buying them back when these modifications are eventually leaked to everyone?

If, everyone was using these modifications, then there would be no incentive/motive for a small group to mine and dump their FTC, because they would be unlikely to get those FTC back at a cheaper price or gain an "exploitation" on the system/peoples.

This is what has happened on the X11 coins, there were modifications that allowed larger miners to get 50% more hash-power then the official sgminer release, those with these modifications mined and dumped their coins on the exchanges for 4 months, which is why all the X11 coins prices are so low. Now, those X11 kernels and bins have been leaked and X11 coins have reduced sell pressures on them and better price stability.

For example: had those X11 Kernels and Bin been leaked in August 2014, instead of December 2014 Darkcoin's price would still be at 0.01btc instead of it's current 0.006btc. Similarly, FTC price fall from 0.00006BTC to 0.00004BTC can be (evidently proved) blamed on these this modifications being used by a small group of miners to sell down FTC on the exchanges. 

Since, the December 2014 leak of X11 kernels and bins (50% extra hash), Darkcoin has been trading upwards from previous month 0.0058BTC average to 0.006BTC average. On this, it is postulate that FTC price will trend upwards whenever the neoscrypt Kernels and Bins (93% extra hash) gets leaked to the community.

Secondly, this is causing the huge demand for new coins, because spending 0.10btc on 50,000-100,000 new crypto-currency or putting your GPU's on a new coin appears to be the only way to make a profit with mining at the moment, even if the success rate is very low on new coins (only 1 in 25).
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188
I think blood bath is over 15min, 30min, 1hour and 2hours charts turned to positive. 4 hour chart is almost there. Panic buy started. $250 short term shoot up then will retrace back $225-230 before deciding to go more up , ordown.

+1 You could be right unless the dumpers are so damn suicidely dogged that they'd come back for another try at those levels.

That must have given them a fright though - at least the ones that are not Citibank with their 3-year stash of coins accumulated precisely for this purpose of hammering the life out of the market at any cost just prior to the ETF getting approved Wink

(Thats always been my haunt from day 1 of this whole project which is why I'm repeating myself so often)

EDIT: Here they come now...what happens to the 5-minute wave this time, does it make it to crossover or bottle out again ?

(I have to go to sleep unfortunately otherwise I'll meet myself in the morning - will leave you folks to it and try not to dream in red and green).

P.S. Just remembered one more thing - these levels have already been flexed twice. The first was even earlier way back in April 2013. I remember it because that was when I bought my first bitcoin so I am part of that volume. The 100-200 range could therefore be twice as hard packed as anything else.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

Lets look at this on the 4-hour chart.

The bounce is vertical. That's some hard resistance thats been hit.



What's going on there ? I just realised that if we go right back to October 2013 and the start of the big run-up, a whole load of volume went in at these levels. The 160 price level is right in the middle of all that resistance which is possibly why it bounced so hard. This will be hard to get through I think but lets see what happens.


full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
I think blood bath is over 15min, 30min, 1hour and 2hours charts turned to positive. 4 hour chart is almost there. Panic buy started. $250 short term shoot up then will retrace back $225-230 before deciding to go more up , ordown.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Bitcoinwisdom is on fire (BTC/USD) !
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188
There is majourly jittery trading.

This 5-minute MACD was supposed to dip below into a more substabtial negative cycle but it refused.

Instead, panic buying has recomenced and we're now at 195....200....the panic from desperate short covering is palbable. People in a rapid turnaround caught on the wrong side of the trend, scared sh*tless they're giong to be kicked out of the market and left behind as it rattles back up.

This is the danger of trading large amounts at these levels. Someone who dumped 90 BTC at the low there of 162 (and there were plenty - just look at the volume) and had to buy back in at 190 in a panic just lost themselves 13 BTC in the space of a few minutes.




legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

The 1-hour Bitcoin / USD MACD just crossed to the upside triggering some major panic buying.

Tonight's pitched battle has just commenced again with people panicking in both directions.


legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1005
DASH is the future of crypto payments!

If any of you folks require ammunition to combat tulip analogies floating around at the moment, I just posted some here.


saying that we should see btc even @ 40-50$ than...to come back after a month or two to 150$...hmmm nice story with this tulipomania, didn`t know it before.
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