Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 3365. (Read 9723787 times)

Well, considering the breakout of available 1000 coin blocks wouldn't allow for maxing out the masternodes coupled with the monthly increase in masternode payout percentages, I don't foresee returns being THAT low. Even so, 6.4% for sitting on your ass and effectively doing nothing in an already low rate environment aint too shabby. Granted, if you don't believe in DRK, you probably aren't going to be running a masternode for long periods of time anyway.

Sure, you're correct, but if I'd continue with my hyperbolas I could say that all of us could sell our MN coins and kill the network. Another "problem". But I get your point.


How does that differ from any asset class? Satoshi could sell all his BTC and kill the network. Central bankers could sell all their gold and kill the market. China could sell all its dollars and kill the economy. We could nuke China back to the stone age if they tried.

There are a lot of hyperbolic scenarios one could come up with...

Total Masternodes: 1375 = 1375 actives + 0 inactives (Last refresh: Tue Dec 09 2014 11:11:06 PM)
Estimated daily payout for an active node (blocks with MN payments last 24h: 100%): 0.62 DRK/day (Last Refreshed: Tue Dec 09 2014 11:11:06 PM)

Come on. Darkcoin is not even one year old. 1 month sample is about 10% of its lifespan. 3% trend within a month could be an abbreviation but it is NOT totally insignificant sample. Funnily enough, as we were talking here, this is what has happened:

-- 230 new coins created (4,929,367 total);
-- 18 new Masternodes established (1377 total);

The ratio I talk about went from 27.5707492% to 27.93462122% (0.36387202%) so in few hours we'd be at 28% of all coins in Masternodes. I may be entirely wrong as much as mu assumption, but it is fun to think about stuff I do not fully understand.

Hoping I am not as stupid as "my argument" seems to be, I have to go back to this discussion a bit for I like to ponder the issue I do not fully get - I lack your ease in coming to conclusions about someone or someone's argument's stupidity; it takes me some time before I call something "stupid" - unless I don't have a preconceived notion about the topic. I try really hard to find my own blind spot. So let me try to help you see your own. (blind spot, that is)  Again, I speak hypothetically trying to shade some light on the issue (or a "non-issue") as I see it.

You seem to think the issue I raised (the number of all coins in MNs vs. total circulation went from 24% to 27% in a month and one day the ratio could be 99% or 100%, if the trend continues) is resolved by the fact 1 coin has 100,000,000 duffs and therefore that the FRACTION of the currency union "reiterates that there would be plenty of liquidity". This does not make much sense.

The very idea of liquidity is "degree to which an asset or security can be bought or sold in the market without affecting the asset's price," and should we end up having only "duffs" and no "coins" left (they are all in Masternodes) the "duffs" would now have to follow market economics as well. "It IS economics: supply and demand," you wrote or quoted, right? So now we have the "duffs" and no "coins" so the duff is being used, sold and bought and as such its price could go up or down dramatically precisely because there is no liquidity (Darkcoins) left and with it, the asset (Darkcoin) value.

You're sweeping the problem (granted, it could be a "non problem, I don' know, that why I think about it) under the duffs. This may be your blind spot, I have no clue, still looking for my own.

It's a digital coin being able to be split into decimals. Each "whole" coin has 10,000,000 units and there will certainly be more than just 1 coin worth in circulation. That's plenty of liquidity. If you only look at it from the viewpoint of whole coins, then sure, there is a problem, but it's a non issue in something that could be split out even more decimals. It IS economics: supply and demand. As reward for masternodes increase, demand for masternodes increase. As the price per coin increases, some existing holders will sell some of their stash until an equilibrium is formed.

correction : 100,000,000 duffs = 1 DRK

Good catch. Further reiterates that there would be plenty of liquidity. This argument is probably one of the stupidest ones I have seen on here thus far.

I follow various Darkcoin related statistics data for my fun and this is the ONLY one I do not like. (aside the price that I don't get why is still as low as $2.25 or something). I raised the question, of coins being locked in the Masternode, wondering (hypothetically) what would happen if ALL the coins are locked out? Many a member told me it is too early to worry about it, and that pure economics would not allow any problems with it but I wonder / worry about LIQUIDITY!

Again, hypothetically, if only us - Darkcoin supporters - would buy the coins and at the end have ALL of them locked in MN, the value of one DRK could be a one million dollars for all I care, but who would buy the coin for a million? No one, I guarantee you. So, I might sell that one coin for a $1.00 (one dollar) in order to find a greedy buyer outside the community. And voila!, all the coins just lost 99.999999% of their value.

I don't buy an argument that scarcity would increase the price for the price itself is NOT, could NOT and SHOULD not be the only consideration.

I am currently at 28% loss with my Darkcoin investment. But I've also made 350% - in the last 30 days - on shorting Russian ruble on FOREX. (I'm sorry, our Russian friends, I hate to see how the Financial Crime Cartel is destroying your economy, but I could not let free money go away)  So, if I cared ONLY about the price / profit, I'd convert all my coins into a more profitable investment (at least on the short run) and forget about freedom, privacy, anonymity, cheap remittance of currency that is currently at 12% for fiat garbage, according to the World Bank (a $540 Billion market) and all sort of incredible benefits e-Cash (Darkcoin) could provide to the people all over the world. But if this cash sits in my MN or in my wallet and does nothing else but provide me, and only me, with a coin or two "reward", and the Network with some security, damn... something indeed might be wrong.

Ponder this: as of today, 27.57% of ALL Darkcoins in circulation are already locked in Masternodes. On November 12th, less than a month ago, that percentage was 24.57% so the # of locked in coins outpaces the overall coins supply quite rapidly. [3% or for 40% on an annual basis] With the price as it is and the pace of MN growth we could see 50% off ALL coins being locked in Masternodes in less than six, perhaps four months.

This simply CAN'T be good! I defy anyone to explain me how the currency out the circulation is going to be beneficial for our future users?

your assumption is entirely wrong, this trend can't progress until we are in your scenario..
its impossible to extrapolate that small information from the last month. thats not how markets behave

correction :100,000,000 duffs = 1 DRK

My scenarios are hypothetical and stretched. I was trying to make a point using hyperbole. But do not underestimate the power of mathematics. Perhaps one month is not enough for my worries but ponder this yet again:

"As of today, 27.57% of ALL Darkcoins in circulation are already locked in Masternodes. On November 12th, less than a month ago, that percentage was 24.57% so the # of locked in coins outpaces the overall coins supply quite rapidly. [3% or for 40% on an annual basis] With the price as it is and the pace of MN growth we could see 50% off ALL coins being locked in Masternodes in less than six, perhaps four months."

What that means is that the Darkcoins are VANISHING from the circulation, on a daily basis. (from 24.57% locked in MN to 27.57% of all coins locked in MN in less than a month). On November 12th, these 24.57%, the Darkcoin price was 0.00672433 BTC. So 3% of all the coins were gone (from circulation) but the price went down. It is not such a big stretch to think this trend may continue until we come to the totally unrealistic scenarios I describe...

Good catch. Further reiterates that there would be plenty of liquidity. This argument is probably one of the stupidest ones I have seen on here thus far.

correction : 100,000,000 duffs = 1 DRK

Thanks to all of you guys - qwizzie, strix, oblox (to Tao: all is fine) - for you contributions, I only do not want to quote everyone and hijack the board entirely  

OK, but if you "move the decimal point" you have increased the coins supply 10x. Remember the community's reaction when Evan suggested (in fact it was leaked) a coin merge a while ago? The "merger" would've been funded by Darkcoins. Evan even had a brilliant idea of decreasing the number of circulated coins so, at the end, the number of coins would stay the same. The community went berserk over what would've been, I think about 4% or so, for sure less than 10% (temporary) increase of the total number of coins.

I am not aware of that decimal point move idea, but it would resemble the fiat world in which with a flicker of pen (or an enter on a keyboard) you "create" 10 times more coins thusly defying the very core idea of a "finite number" and you're in a totally new ballgame whose rules do not exist yet. (who would "authorize" such increase? Ben Bernake or that new creature at the FED or "our equivalent" of it?)

By doing this you're taking the power out of mathematics - again, the very core of Bitcon / Darkcoin advantages - and give it back to the people, us, poor carbon based, sub-lunar, corruptible creatures...

Not even one single coin is "locked up" in masternodes. I can spend any or all of the coins in my masternodes just as simply as you can spend the coins in your own wallet. I load up the wallet file (it's a cold wallet, as is prudent) and I spend the money. Easy peasy.

Now if I spend those DRKs, my MN will go offline. But it takes exactly 30 seconds to spend the money that's "tied up" in my masternodes.

You are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

My scenarios are hypothetical and stretched. I was trying to make a point using hyperbole. But do not underestimate the power of mathematics. Perhaps one month is not enough for my worries but ponder this yet again:

"As of today, 27.57% of ALL Darkcoins in circulation are already locked in Masternodes. On November 12th, less than a month ago, that percentage was 24.57% so the # of locked in coins outpaces the overall coins supply quite rapidly. [3% or for 40% on an annual basis] With the price as it is and the pace of MN growth we could see 50% off ALL coins being locked in Masternodes in less than six, perhaps four months."

What that means is that the Darkcoins are VANISHING from the circulation, on a daily basis. (from 24.57% locked in MN to 27.57% of all coins locked in MN in less than a month). On November 12th, these 24.57%, the Darkcoin price was 0.00672433 BTC. So 3% of all the coins were gone (from circulation) but the price went down. It is not such a big stretch to think this trend may continue until we come to the totally unrealistic scenarios I describe...

what are u talking about? this scenario seems completely unrealistic..
if there would be that much master nodes, any boost in demand would rise the price very quick which leads to people selling their nodes to cover the volatility.
if there would be just 1 drk left on the market due to huge demand, the price would already be at a million dollars..
nobody would run master nodes at that prices, too many of them, too less reward, too much volatility in crypto