Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 4747. (Read 9724017 times)

I agree that this makes sense for an objective, BUT:

Do the wallet-sent TX stand out in that mist? I still think the client should denominate before it sends to a masternode. This might happen by default per the pre-mix. But, sends from wallets are still not sends from identified MNs, so it's something identifiably not mist going into the mist... Thus, it might be identified coming out. I'd like to see a denominated multi-point-exit to shore this up.

It looks like it's almost there to me... I'd start my explanation of why I say that by saying first, it looks like the mist moved from the client to the MNS, and the identifiable part moved from the MNs to the clients... Now, this is not 100% true because the clients are receiving pre-mixed. But quantities and timing are still potentially, sometimes identifiable. Noted, there is a percentage linked on a google docs spreadsheet. Probability it not absolutely. That's why it's called probability and not absolutely.

If the client sent out DRK in the same denominations, and with the same IP obfuscation (which pre-suppsoes that there will be IP obfuscation added at some point) as the MNs used, there would be no way to know what the hell was going to where. IF change came out of the 8-box look randomly;

1) sometimes skipping a block in timing
2) some bits coming out earlier than others. (MN2 sends one hunk of denominated change, MN5 sends another hunk, etc)

Then the when goes to hell too.

Also, the 10 block cycle is a cycle, not a mist. It's the opposite of homogeneous...

Then you've truly got a homogeneous mist going. The picture/updated info is a mist into which a somewhat thicker mist comes and goes... It's not quite homogenous.

Don't take this as an insult or a troll. It's damn near perfect now. I'm just thinking out loud about how to make it a little MORE perfect...

I wonder if blowjayxt, our resident homojenius wants to chime in on how this is or is not homogeneous?

+1

It is brilliant. It solves a lot of issues I often wondered about (like the advantages of being able to use block explorer to check the transaction happened) while at the same time *improving* anonymity by generalising it to the entire coin supply.

0.01 DRK

Edit 0.001 DRK (what he said down below  )

Sorry to be terse, but there are other threads discussing Bitcoin. This is about the future.

You're asking if a coin that is being built for anonymity can be easily traced?

And this:

Sorry if has been answered already, but what if I hold 26.1301456 DRK in my wallet - does anonymization operate down to the single satoshi level?

I respectfully disagree with you, the final transaction the person to person transaction occurs directly so that you can see the coins leave your wallet directly to the recipient's address and you can see the address getting the coins in the blockchain. So you can verify any transaction between buyer and seller just like you do now, but you are using previously mixed and denominated coins so that it is really a fog for everyone else! It is just brilliant, basically ecash! Great for business applications and way better than Bitcoin for B2B.

The combined probability column in fernando's spreadsheets... at 600 total masternodes, if you owned 100 masternodes, you would still only have ~ .0000468% chance of being able elected in a way to determine inputs and outputs. Wow. Am I reading that correctly?

Edit: At 8 rounds

We'll have to wait for a more detailed explanation of what exactly happens when the change is generated. In the past, it was obfuscated because it looked like you sent 10, when in reality the masternode would send your recipient 5, and you'd get 5 back in change. Using multiple masternodes in the process would have just made it nearly impossible for transactions to be traced through node collusion.

From the update:


Can a user opt-out of this background anonymization for some or all of his or her coins, or is Darkcoin moving to a model where it is essentially mandatory that all coins be mixed in this way even if they are just sitting in wallets?

I ask because it seems like there are use cases where being able to trace the history of your own coins -- or proving that history to others, by pointing them to a neutral third party block explorer -- is a desired feature.  Scrambling the ability to trace and document that history (when the ability to document that history is actually desired, of course) by mixing coins in the background introduces some new wrinkles, especially for business use cases.

Phenomenal.

This is a huge philosophical step.

He's moved the goalposts so that the emphasis is now on maintaining a background service for anonymising the entire coin supply rather than doing in realtime for individual transactions.

That's the way to go - instead of bickering over whats the best algo for making an individual transaction disappear, just turn the entire f*cking coin supply into mist !!!

Who says masternodes weren't any use - there you go folks. There's your innovation right there and it's blasted DRK right back into a class of its own.

market is reacting already... look at Mintpal

Pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate: But, if the coins don't actually change hands, how does this obfuscate anything?

+1 It is great that Darksend+ will finally get a reputable independent review, it just speaks to the development team transparency.

So the anonymity slider can be cranked to full and it won't add to the blockchain bloat? If so, awesome.

Closed source boo-hoo !!


What i love about Kristov is that he is a highly skeptical person by nature, but open-minded enough for pure objectivity.
 He's a brilliant observer and interpreter.

All the hallmarks of a great and thorough scientist.

This is correct the masternodes never actually hold the funds they just facilitate transactions.

@eduffield

This is pretty impressive Mr. Duffield. I can't wait to take it out for a test drive.

panic-buy incoming   

The way I understand it, nothing is added to the blockchain between the green boxes. The masternodes never actually hold the funds, they just facilitate signing. Someone correct me if I am mistaken. 

Hmmm....

I'd like to know what the inter-master-node TXes look like.

Are they just a send of 26DRK? Or are they denominated at the first hit and remain thusly denominated? Do they mix?

I guess my question is; How does the circle of green boxes work between the boxes?

Another way of saying it: Those black arrows between the green boxes, what's going on there? What do those TXes look like on the BC?



"The coins are mixed and converted to homogeneous subsets..."

Is that the part that answers my question with the answer I want to hear in semi-ambiguous language that makes me wonder if it means what I think it means?

They look like the blue ovals, just moving to blue ovals on the next masternode? Is that what this is trying to say, but doing it as if English is the writers' second language?

Literally blown away... Wow...

You basically said to hell with the 'mix-at-send' idea and made it so the network is just constantly anonymizing. Holy crap.... you are brilliant... I am honestly floored and that doesn't happen easily.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/I50zoL_UCqeBhGHAR4J4RDzGpHQzFm5gCds5pguIGGkBFZ34J6akaC9qmF3D_HMIMHprHSUsyJiYiM7EjyWfucBHuqYCSksINovmaK0VG4LSkfsKRZVEdMMlkN3vrL3eng