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Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 5689. (Read 9723776 times)

legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?
The rich and powerful will welcome anonymous transactions the most, they don't give a damn what the little people do with their crumbs.

And Darkcoin is perfect for businesses because it lets them keep their business private, unlike bitcoin, which is why, after years, so few businesses will touch bitcoin.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 73
snapshot #IRC chat.freenode.net

#bitcoin : 1384 users
#dogecoin : 826 users
#litecoin : 442 users
#darkcoin : 251 users <--- feel free to join us
#namecoin : 102 users




hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
01100100 01100001 01110011 01101000
Can someone please rebut this, or at least parts of it? It keeps getting mentioned in IRC and trollboxes, apparently smart people are believing it and I can't find any counterproof to point to.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Application_Built_on_top_Of_Cryptocurrency

Quote
Bitcoin is a lot like HTTP. It is an application layer protocol and tools can be built on it (like websites can be built on HTTP). There is a class of cryptocurrencies that promise features like casino websites and exchanges and anonymity protocols to be built on top of them.

When creating a new website, one doesn't make a new protocol unless it is necessary. For example, HTTPS is an encrypted version of HTTP, therefore it is useful and necessary. When creating an app such as "DarkSend", one doesn't need to make a new protocol such as "Darkcoin". This is synonymous to making an HTTPS alternative (eg. HTTPSX) for your new website for encrypted chat and not adding any new security or functionality to HTTPSX.

Because Darkcoin is by far the most popular cryptocurrency of this class, the Darkcoin example will be covered in this section.

The Darkcoin devs created a tool called DarkSend. DarkSend is an implementation of coinjoin (an anonymity feature originally implemented in Bitcoin[4]) which utilizes the Darkcoin network to organize the coinjoins. If DarkSend becomes open source and is useful, it will be ported to Bitcoin with a few small modifications. Currently DarkSend masternodes are paid 10% of the block reward after they hold 1000DRK in order to become a masternode.[5] This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable. It is also costs bandwidth to run a masternode, therefore there is an incentive to buy 1000DRK and get a chance at the 10% block reward masternodes are being paid, but not actually act as a masternode. For this reason, DarkSend would work better if the masternodes were paid by those they were helping coinjoin, or if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion. The better implementation not vulnerable to the attack described is compatible with Bitcoin, therefore, the Darksend protocol serves no purpose.

Quote
This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable.

Quote
For this reason, DarkSend would work better [...] if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion.

If a user running a masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable, I don't see how involving all the network is better. In the contrary it's easier and cheaper to setup a lot of nodes to trace the transactions.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Can someone please rebut this, or at least parts of it? It keeps getting mentioned in IRC and trollboxes, apparently smart people are believing it and I can't find any counterproof to point to.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Application_Built_on_top_Of_Cryptocurrency

Quote
Bitcoin is a lot like HTTP. It is an application layer protocol and tools can be built on it (like websites can be built on HTTP). There is a class of cryptocurrencies that promise features like casino websites and exchanges and anonymity protocols to be built on top of them.

When creating a new website, one doesn't make a new protocol unless it is necessary. For example, HTTPS is an encrypted version of HTTP, therefore it is useful and necessary. When creating an app such as "DarkSend", one doesn't need to make a new protocol such as "Darkcoin". This is synonymous to making an HTTPS alternative (eg. HTTPSX) for your new website for encrypted chat and not adding any new security or functionality to HTTPSX.

Because Darkcoin is by far the most popular cryptocurrency of this class, the Darkcoin example will be covered in this section.

The Darkcoin devs created a tool called DarkSend. DarkSend is an implementation of coinjoin (an anonymity feature originally implemented in Bitcoin[4]) which utilizes the Darkcoin network to organize the coinjoins. If DarkSend becomes open source and is useful, it will be ported to Bitcoin with a few small modifications. Currently DarkSend masternodes are paid 10% of the block reward after they hold 1000DRK in order to become a masternode.[5] This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable. It is also costs bandwidth to run a masternode, therefore there is an incentive to buy 1000DRK and get a chance at the 10% block reward masternodes are being paid, but not actually act as a masternode. For this reason, DarkSend would work better if the masternodes were paid by those they were helping coinjoin, or if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion. The better implementation not vulnerable to the attack described is compatible with Bitcoin, therefore, the Darksend protocol serves no purpose.

We agree that DarkSend is useful and necessary because bitcoin, in its current implementation does not provide adequate privacy.  It is however not easy to "port" DarkSend to bitcoin with a few small modifications as it requires a significant re-engineering of how the protocol works.

One must question whether existing bitcoin miners are willing to make that leap and also question whether the bitcoin development team are prepared to work on such a project under the eye of the government.  Recent history would suggest not.

To be paid the 10% block reward, one has to act as a masternode.  There is no in-between stage.  If everyone acted in a collaborated decentralised fashion it would be too easy for government to infiltrate the protocol and setup monitoring masternodes.

Darkcoin's decentralised privacy implementation is a technically superior implementation of bitcoin.  Darkcoin is https.  And http will never be https.

There are more people everyday switching to https.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Cash is anonymous, have they banned cash transactions?

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Can someone please rebut this, or at least parts of it? It keeps getting mentioned in IRC and trollboxes, apparently smart people are believing it and I can't find any counterproof to point to.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Application_Built_on_top_Of_Cryptocurrency

Ok

=>

Quote
Bitcoin is a lot like HTTP. It is an application layer protocol and tools can be built on it (like websites can be built on HTTP). There is a class of cryptocurrencies that promise features like casino websites and exchanges and anonymity protocols to be built on top of them.

When creating a new website, one doesn't make a new protocol unless it is necessary. For example, HTTPS is an encrypted version of HTTP, therefore it is useful and necessary. When creating an app such as "DarkSend", one doesn't need to make a new protocol such as "Darkcoin". This is synonymous to making an HTTPS alternative (eg. HTTPSX) for your new website for encrypted chat and not adding any new security or functionality to HTTPSX.

Because Darkcoin is by far the most popular cryptocurrency of this class, the Darkcoin example will be covered in this section.

The Darkcoin devs created a tool called DarkSend. DarkSend is an implementation of coinjoin (an anonymity feature originally implemented in Bitcoin[4]) which utilizes the Darkcoin network to organize the coinjoins. If DarkSend becomes open source and is useful, it will be ported to Bitcoin with a few small modifications.

It won't. It requires a hard fork and Bitcoin will not hard fork for DarkSend, nor jeopardize regulation issues.

Quote
Currently DarkSend masternodes are paid 10% of the block reward after they hold 1000DRK in order to become a masternode.[5] This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable.

True, but the risk of having a "bad actor" controlling the nodes is reduced.

Also doesn't factor in anonymity enhancements (RC3+)

Quote
It is also costs bandwidth to run a masternode, therefore there is an incentive to buy 1000DRK and get a chance at the 10% block reward masternodes are being paid, but not actually act as a masternode.

Misbehaving nodes don't get payment. So false.

Quote
For this reason, DarkSend would work better if the masternodes were paid by those they were helping coinjoin, or if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion.

That's the plan, not paying bad-behaving masternodes.

Quote
The better implementation not vulnerable to the attack described is compatible with Bitcoin, therefore, the Darksend protocol serves no purpose.

Argument based on bullshit => Bullshit.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
Can someone please rebut this, or at least parts of it? It keeps getting mentioned in IRC and trollboxes, apparently smart people are believing it and I can't find any counterproof to point to.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Application_Built_on_top_Of_Cryptocurrency

Quote
Bitcoin is a lot like HTTP. It is an application layer protocol and tools can be built on it (like websites can be built on HTTP). There is a class of cryptocurrencies that promise features like casino websites and exchanges and anonymity protocols to be built on top of them.

When creating a new website, one doesn't make a new protocol unless it is necessary. For example, HTTPS is an encrypted version of HTTP, therefore it is useful and necessary. When creating an app such as "DarkSend", one doesn't need to make a new protocol such as "Darkcoin". This is synonymous to making an HTTPS alternative (eg. HTTPSX) for your new website for encrypted chat and not adding any new security or functionality to HTTPSX.

Because Darkcoin is by far the most popular cryptocurrency of this class, the Darkcoin example will be covered in this section.

The Darkcoin devs created a tool called DarkSend. DarkSend is an implementation of coinjoin (an anonymity feature originally implemented in Bitcoin[4]) which utilizes the Darkcoin network to organize the coinjoins. If DarkSend becomes open source and is useful, it will be ported to Bitcoin with a few small modifications. Currently DarkSend masternodes are paid 10% of the block reward after they hold 1000DRK in order to become a masternode.[5] This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable. It is also costs bandwidth to run a masternode, therefore there is an incentive to buy 1000DRK and get a chance at the 10% block reward masternodes are being paid, but not actually act as a masternode. For this reason, DarkSend would work better if the masternodes were paid by those they were helping coinjoin, or if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion. The better implementation not vulnerable to the attack described is compatible with Bitcoin, therefore, the Darksend protocol serves no purpose.

This part (especially) makes no sense.

Plus, when the Bitcoin geriatrics get around to doing any of this, I might start to worry. But they never will, due to apathy, inertia, regulatory concerns, fear of change, etc.

edit: the more I reread it the less sense it makes. "This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable." What? Are they implying that masternode ops are going to modify their particular instance of darkcoind to mess with the network? If that's even possible, a simple crc/checksum on startup would solve the 'problem.'
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Can someone please rebut this, or at least parts of it? It keeps getting mentioned in IRC and trollboxes, apparently smart people are believing it and I can't find any counterproof to point to.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Application_Built_on_top_Of_Cryptocurrency

Quote
Bitcoin is a lot like HTTP. It is an application layer protocol and tools can be built on it (like websites can be built on HTTP). There is a class of cryptocurrencies that promise features like casino websites and exchanges and anonymity protocols to be built on top of them.

When creating a new website, one doesn't make a new protocol unless it is necessary. For example, HTTPS is an encrypted version of HTTP, therefore it is useful and necessary. When creating an app such as "DarkSend", one doesn't need to make a new protocol such as "Darkcoin". This is synonymous to making an HTTPS alternative (eg. HTTPSX) for your new website for encrypted chat and not adding any new security or functionality to HTTPSX.

Because Darkcoin is by far the most popular cryptocurrency of this class, the Darkcoin example will be covered in this section.

The Darkcoin devs created a tool called DarkSend. DarkSend is an implementation of coinjoin (an anonymity feature originally implemented in Bitcoin[4]) which utilizes the Darkcoin network to organize the coinjoins. If DarkSend becomes open source and is useful, it will be ported to Bitcoin with a few small modifications. Currently DarkSend masternodes are paid 10% of the block reward after they hold 1000DRK in order to become a masternode.[5] This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable. It is also costs bandwidth to run a masternode, therefore there is an incentive to buy 1000DRK and get a chance at the 10% block reward masternodes are being paid, but not actually act as a masternode. For this reason, DarkSend would work better if the masternodes were paid by those they were helping coinjoin, or if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion. The better implementation not vulnerable to the attack described is compatible with Bitcoin, therefore, the Darksend protocol serves no purpose.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
Who is going to be the first to have their 1000drk stolen from their masternode?
Once they find a way to get into the amazon servers then its a free for all
Anyone recommend a good dedicated server?
Airgap your ssh key and use a strong wallet password. Your DRK will be safe.

(I hope.  Wink)

edit: and multiple wallet backups, obviously.
2-fa also on the amazon account itself.
Good call, was meaning to get around to this, just have.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Dark will definitely pass LTC - its not a matter of if....its a matter of when.

It has been proven that this is not a pump & dump - people have tried to dump this coin for the past 2 weeks and the fundamentals have kept the core value of the coin strong.

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Honest opinion wanted - I am a latecomer to DRK but just bought 90 DRK at 0.0229. Will the coin go up or down from here?
To appreciate Darkcoin, you need to understand the difference between DECENTRALISED privacy using masternodes versus stealth addresses plus coinjoin. If people think Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior, then darkcoin should at least surpass litecoin, if not bitcoin eventually.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Honest opinion wanted - I am a latecomer to DRK but just bought 90 DRK at 0.0229. Will the coin go up or down from here?
honest....and I hold a lot of dark. Unsure. I think it's a good sign we held the .02 mark. It's been a fast run-up. I wouldn't mind if we stayed at this level for a bit to normalize. That said, if masternodes get peeps by the short and curlies, could see a magnificent spike. I believe if we do drop, it will be a little. I do see room for growth, much more than we've seen

Thanks very much for your input Smiley
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Honest opinion wanted - I am a latecomer to DRK but just bought 90 DRK at 0.0229. Will the coin go up or down from here?
honest....and I hold a lot of dark. Unsure. I think it's a good sign we held the .02 mark. It's been a fast run-up. I wouldn't mind if we stayed at this level for a bit to normalize. That said, if masternodes get peeps by the short and curlies, could see a magnificent spike. I believe if we do drop, it will be a little. I do see room for growth, much more than we've seen
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1018
Honest opinion wanted - I am a latecomer to DRK but just bought 90 DRK at 0.0229. Will the coin go up or down from here?

Really?
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
Honest opinion wanted - I am a latecomer to DRK but just bought 90 DRK at 0.0229. Will the coin go up or down from here?

My honest view:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6335710
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Honest opinion wanted - I am a latecomer to DRK but just bought 90 DRK at 0.0229. Will the coin go up or down from here?
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