Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 256. (Read 583278 times)

Please elaborate if you have a bit of time. A few thoughts would be helpful so we understand along what lines you are thinking a bit better.

Right now we focus on price, mining, and "what ifs"

In order to become a global digital currency we need to get Karma out of the hands of speculators and into the hands of consumers. Making bold, calculated moves (after careful consideration) is the only way that Karma can be in the top 10.

Consumers don't care about mining any more than they care about Microsoft engineers. They just want Karma to be easy to use and to do something they could not do before (or at least do it in a more attractive way, somehow).

Neither do consumers care about the price of Microsoft equities when they use the software.

For those who claim that we don't understand economics, we have 1 economist consulting on Karma + a team member with an  economics background. I continue to talk about everyday people and adding value (as an investor IRL and a former PR guy, among other things).

(If you recall, we said that we would look for an economist when we were talking about Scrypt changes. And so we did.)

Yes, some people complain that there are no technical specifications splashed on the main page of Karmacoin.me. What kind of coin is this? (Neither does Bitcoin or Dogecoin. If you're a coin geek and can't follow the links and don't know where to look then maybe you should take up baking cookies in your spare time, instead.)

We will not become #1 or #2 by focusing on the things we have focused on. We will only get there by focusing on the needs of everyday people. The time for that is now, not 2 or 5 years from now. If we don't do it then some other coin surely will. "Karma" is perfectly suited for the mass market.

We will not get there being traded by speculators and worried about exchanges. A reverse split helps to shift the Karma conversation to real value.

There are only a small handful of us in the community that are truly interested in what Karma's future is. The rest of us are just out to make some profits.

We will continue to be pioneers in the field and watch as other coins copy our methods and strategy. If this ride frightens you, there are plenty of other coins out there. But very, very few will be "safe" investments.

We've only just begun. We can either waste time talking about price, or spend more time talking about value. A "reverse split" is about value, not price.

There are changes with currencies (such as the French Franc), and sometimes splits. It could mean any number of things. However, I would argue the Karma is not a currency until it is used as a currency. Most cryptocurrencies fall under a "speculative tokens" banner, and are traded as such. In order to remove ourselves from some of the affects of our BTC spread being in the double-digits we simply use the tools we have at hand to our advantage. Few may want to buy Karma when the bid/ask is so wide. So, we have some sellers driving the price down.

Ordinarily, I would not care about price. But in this instance price matters to me because it is not attractive to be traded for BTC. And we need BTC in order to grow right now (as in this month).

Karma is not a company. We don't treat is like such, either. (Anyone is welcome to share their opinion on the thread or vote, not just LLC members, of course)

Neither are we a payment system until we are used like one. More than being a "speculative token" that can be traded, we have plans to be used as a mass-market digital currency for microtransactions and regular transactions alike.

But before we get there we need to clean house a bit, get organized, and make some changes in order to secure our future. Karma is not a company, but it did not rise 2,000+ percent just by being Karma. It did this because there are people behind it who are making careful considerations about its future. (Careful and considerate enough to pay for an economist to consult on Karma out of our own pocket, I might add.)

All that we do is for the health of the Karma economy. To say, "I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies" does not make it true. Further, you are missing that we are all behind Karma. Karma is great because of the work, dedication, opinions, suggestions, etc., of each of us right here. (I'm assuming you meant Karma, not Karmashares.)

Alphi, I've always enjoyed and respected your posts, but I have to disagree with you on this.  The market cap, the entire value of Karma as a crypto, will not change with a reverse split.  The only thing that changes is its current exchange ratio of KARMA:BITCOIN.  Currently, because of the massive number of outstanding Karma, we are stuck in the low single satoshi range.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, in and of itself.  The motivation of a reverse split is to make an individual Karma more valuable.  Of course we can still divide KARMA to the 8th decimal place, that would not change.  

Me and Kos are well established businessmen.  We do understand economics.  We do also understand what a reverse split is.  The value of a company is based on current and future revenues, capital equipment, cash on hand, employees, intellectual property, etc.  When a company does a reverse split it only limits the number of shares that are outstanding.  The value of the company does not change.  A reverse split is often used to avoid being delisted from stock exchanges.  Once a company is delisted they are forced into the OTC (Over the Counter) market.  This delisting diminishes visibility and respect.  The litoshi paring, a Doge paring, is the OTC market of the crypto world.  Again, there is nothing wrong with it, other than visibility.  For Karma to be better respected and appreciated in a broader market, I feel we need to decrease the total number of outstanding Karma.  Again, this does NOTHING to lower the value Karma as a whole.

The market has spoken and Karma is a continual top 30-40 market cap crypto, even touching the top 20 recently. This will not change if we reduce the number of outstanding Karma.  We have all of our ducks in a row, we just do not want to turn away investment because of the single satoshi levels.  Personally I am in favor of the 1:10.   We would be in the 30 - 40 Satoshi range,.  I think everyone still likes holding Millions in their wallet and with a 1:10 we wouldn't take this away.   Now doing a 1:100 is also something I would consider if others did as well.  

We need to keep KARMA visible and a viable investment vehicle until our algo changes are made and projects get noticed.  

About reverse split issue.

I move that this issue be stopped.

Here are the reasons:

1. This issue is against kosmost's own voice that we all have been supporting from the start;

"We will leave it to some of the community to focus on price, while we continue to focus on adding value  
All one needs to do is take a look at our 90-day chart to see a trend forming, especially in the context of our developments."

"We waste too much time on petty nonsense. First we obsessed about price for 20+ pages, now it's this..
Surely we can be more productive  "

"Our coin is healthy, our market is heatlhy. We are still on a path to BTC pairing, and still on track with everything else.
The more our community helps us get there, the better  " etc. etc. along these same lines.

2. It is dividing our small close knit community into PROS, CONS, NEUTRALS.

3. Dropping zero/s by reverse split is actually exchanging what we SURELY have to what we MAY or MAY NOT have.

What real and sure things do we have?                                What we MAY HAVE

* Steadily progressing coin at lowest of 2-3 sats each         *If we drop 1 zero WE MAY have 30 satoshi each but who controls the market price? NO ONE CAN MAKE SURE.
* SMALL Close knit Community with additional values           (For this point its dangerous to gamble)
   we will have more investors.                                        * We MAY HAVE some more investors OR NOT. (For this point it's useless to gamble)
* Trust of the present holders                                         * We MAY HAVE trust of the potential holders OR NOT.
* We have more than enough budget for projects               * We MAY HAVE more budget or LESSER
* We have a more or less good market cap                        * Our market cap is SPECULATED to remain the same IF the market follows with raising price, OR NOT. (why?)
* Without messing with this we can focus on projects         * Everyone is agitated about price because of UNCERTAINTY

4. We know we joined karma community because of it's dependability and stability, because we saw the devs keeping their words, doing things in time. That record will be broken by messing with the coin's number.

5. If we still decide to reverse split and the price plunge what would we do to raise it again? Will we do projects to add value? Why not just do the projects then and continue with the good method we have been doing?

So looking at this at different angles it always raise the flag that it is NOT NEEDED and it is even giving a chance for trouble to happen, which we don't have at the moment.

6. If the small investors that we have been saying we wanted to enter Karma, is having a hard time to buy in now, do we really want to make that 10x, 100x or 1000x harder?

7. please move this issue to the forum cemetary and put a big R.I.P. sign over it.

tl;dr: Stop this.


Please second the motion. http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,463.msg2430.html#msg2430

Crypto Analytics reiterates is BUY rating on KARM

for Analysis and Target Price:

http://cryptoanalytics.trade/karm/
@cryptoanalytic

Karma and Karmacoin are now our registered trademarks! http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2ad9hk/karma_and_karmacoin_are_now_our_registered/

This is so cool

Why not decrease the number of coins? Can this be an alternative to reverse split?

My wife is wearing the new Karmacap from Fabrik! have a look http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,468.0.html

bitcoin , the highest market cap started introducing sidechain. because they are lacking people using bitcoin to buy goods. bitcoin is stil faily new and they realized they need to adjust. people are holding the coin becuase they think they will be worth 1million each. you can read articles how people are literarly burring the coin to the ground. how can this coin be used healthy when people hold dear to it?

Karma is even younger. we have no other place use this as only few exchanges. such change will not scare anyone grandmother anytime soon. and you are right. we can not go changing the code left and right. But be truthful.. you bought into the "name" and not the code. i don't think anyone went "wow, a scrypt coin. i love it!" but they loved the name and what the coin represent. we are not changing that.

people will hold dear to karma like gold. so lets move the coin up in satoshis. and introduce a color coin as i mention in previous post

karma will not go from $1.5 million cap to $30 million just with reverse split. I am guessing it will adjust at $ 4 mill cap after the initial spike. So basically the same marketcap for now. but we will not risk loosing the btc market and it will give us time to work on project. eventually every single progress will start increasing our marketcap. so doing the split will not mean people 6 months from now missed the train. they still will have time as we will have tons of room for growth

Thanks for explaining. Actually this should be posted in Karma white papers and sent to newcomers in as a welcome message.

if we reverse split to 1:1000

there will be some long way before karma adjusts to high satoshi price. it will be wild ride but i believe its best. it will give ways to bigger investors to come in and it will be secure to smaller investor too.

take an example of dogecoin. there was a massive push. They even had reddit CEO basically push the coin to frontpages of one of the biggest social "blog" networks. they had professional marketing team. The took a famous meme and decided to run an experiment with it. a fun coin. but then they said "eff' it. and released the beast.

dogecoin blew up from the investors , not because it was fun. BTT investors here saw the backing of this coin from the dogecoin dev team and the reddit CEO and knew it would make news. and they were right. dogecoin started rising. when faced with question why this coin focused on a meme is getting attention they said beacuse its "fun". the played the not serious angle. and started to market that. big bag holder walking around tipping crazy amounts and reddit stuff helping them gain attention.

But soon the investors started to realize that a billion dollar coin is hard to move forward. especially one that was pumpin new coins daily. So they it started to stall at 30-50 satoshi range. they just could not move it higher.

then the whales tried to give it a shot. we all know the famous wolong. they brute pumped it double its value and tripple but they soon meet the fate of pumping a multibillion coin with mass dumping.

ever since then, no experienced investors thinks twice to invest in multi billion coins.


But we did not have any one famous backing us up. Especially when this coin was created by the old dev with sole purpose to be a instamine galore. it was a temporarily project of theirs. it was designed to pump as much coin as dogecoin and be able to sell them once they hit an exchange and walk away. which they basically did. But what they missed to realize it people like me and others. we loved the name. it only survived because of the name. it makes sense. its brand-able . its fantastic name. its a name that sells the purpose its self. its a name that promotes good and fairness.

we could see this coin die so we joined forces and gave it a meaning. gave it a purpose. We started making a list of end of the line goals. you all know the history of how we got here.

why all these info? To show you that Karma was not designed to last. it was designed to be  maintained to sold for profit. the first 10,000 block were up to 2 mill coins a block.

Lets not stick too close to something that was designed to be forgotten and move forward and evolve. We want to see Karma being used a currency but it will become a commodity to hoard. it will be like bitcoin. People will start to hold on to it rather then use it. and when they see a price big enough they will sell it for profit. (as they should since its their option)  but this will prevent the coin being used and recycled daily. it stops being healthy distributed.

this is why bitcoin has started thinking into side chains and this is why other older coins have realized they need color coins. because their investors will hoard the coin, so then create an other token that is backed by this coin and use this as a commodity. basically making the coin their "GOLD" and the color coin their "FIAT"

This will be our future. People will hoard Karma as the GOLD and probable KarmaX as the FIAT.  We can have 1 Karma = 1000 KarmaX. and start tipping , trading this token with goods.

So why do i want Karma reversed split to 92 Million coins.:

* Because some one panic selling 50 mills out of their 200,000,000 coins is more dangerous then panic selling 50,000 coins.
* Because of the small margins in satoshis. Some one buying at 1000 satoshis will have to sell much higher to gain profit instead of some one buying at 10 satoshi to sell at 12 satoshi for a reasonable gain. This will prevent huge walls building up. .
* Because it will bring more investors as they will have more leverage and safety net. If an organized group start spreading FUD and cause panic sells it will not be as great. they might course the price to dip a few 10s satoshis before they are exposed as fake accusations. and even if there were true accusation it would give the investors some safe time to walk away with minimal losses. Unlike now with billion of coins. If only 5 to 10 people panic sells that could be over 500 millions of coin. probably drawn us to 10 litoshi before the accusation are cleared as fake. no big investor will sleep well



Again: Karma will always be connected to people hoarding it for a higher profit. They will not buy a cheeseburger with karma anytime soon. So we start treating karma as gold. this is one of the major reason we lunched the LLC. so we can build projects to be backed up by karma. but as we starting to see, Karma is not being used as a currency. but as their way to become millionairs.

So then we introduce color coin/ sidechain and start start using them for such uses and have them backed by a fixed price of karma. SO we fix the Color coin.

1 karmaX = $0.001 worth of Karma. so 1000 KarmaX will always be worth $1 worth of karma.

this will prompt people to trade karmaX because if they hold it for 1 year it will still be worth $1


Bitcoin and older coins have already seen this and are trying to push it. A main reason why NXT secured their BTC market. they started to introduce color coin concept because no one was buying cheeseburger with NXT coins

Please see the bigger picture

There is whole lot way for Karma to travel from 2-3 to 10K Satoshi.

If the ratio is 100:1

The total number will be 1 billion

There is no 'big guy' in 1 billion market

The price of one coin will be 10,000 satoshi

Good for karma

I like the price of karma (now it 2~4 satoshi)

But it's ending new age is coming..

Please follow the link and make your voice heard. If you would like the split then select the ratio you would like best, if you are against any split select other and write a little paragraph on why you don't think the split is a good idea.    It is important you make your position known. This poll is simply a feeler to test the waters to see how the community would feel about such a split. The decision to move forward and actually do a real motion to split might come as a result of the findings in this poll so if you don't follow  the link and make your voice heard then i don't want to hear jack crap from you later when the split gets voted on and the results are not to your liking.

I just think the logo is beautiful,lol

The discussion here is becoming too aggressive and not productive. Instead of generating ideas what can we do to grow community and take at least a little part of it, we are whining about the price, exchanges, etc. Let`s focus on the small or big things that we can contribute to. With the help of all KARMA moderators we can split big goals to a little tasks that can make us huge.

Always interesting discussions in KarmaLand ..

I have faith in the dev team ..
So, if this is a 'proxy' vote then you can
'vote' my small stake of 10.6 million KARM FOR whatever you think best ..

Triff ..

Reverse split can be good to our economy. Karma is not Sat2, nor any other coins, that will suffer the same fate as what everyone has observed presently. Karma is backed up by solid developments and these separate it from the rest. When we reverse split, I doubt it will be met with buyers' apprehension in the market. Those who will, will not sustain their doubts. Instead, buyers will see that in a few numbers, things are getting serious. Much more, they will see karma not only in the limelight of exchanges, but see it more in the light of its developments behind the scene, and the projects that start to be making names and sparking interests in the cryptoworld. In other words, karma is valuable in itself, and so seeing the need to possess, investors will likely be more serious in their intention to own more. This is a very powerful combination: solid developments + scarcity (as represented in the reverse split impression) + a dedicated team = karma's success.

In anyway a reverse split can do to karma, it is to add more value!