Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 257. (Read 583120 times)

Always interesting discussions in KarmaLand ..

I have faith in the dev team ..
So, if this is a 'proxy' vote then you can
'vote' my small stake of 10.6 million KARM FOR whatever you think best ..

Triff ..

Reverse split can be good to our economy. Karma is not Sat2, nor any other coins, that will suffer the same fate as what everyone has observed presently. Karma is backed up by solid developments and these separate it from the rest. When we reverse split, I doubt it will be met with buyers' apprehension in the market. Those who will, will not sustain their doubts. Instead, buyers will see that in a few numbers, things are getting serious. Much more, they will see karma not only in the limelight of exchanges, but see it more in the light of its developments behind the scene, and the projects that start to be making names and sparking interests in the cryptoworld. In other words, karma is valuable in itself, and so seeing the need to possess, investors will likely be more serious in their intention to own more. This is a very powerful combination: solid developments + scarcity (as represented in the reverse split impression) + a dedicated team = karma's success.

In anyway a reverse split can do to karma, it is to add more value!

the coin logo was beautiful,lol

I would agree if we were discussing a new coin. A freshly launched billion coin would be dead in the water these days. But Karma is already well established and already has 2/3rds of its mining done (in only a few months, hence all the dumping early on - too high inflation).

The only advantage I see in the reverse split is removing the huge margin when trading at these single digit rates. But I am convinced these are not going to be Karma's last stop and once above 10 or 20 sat (which Karma can certainly reach) that issue is pretty much gone. I have traded plenty of other coins and people bitch just as much when price goes from 4000 to 3000 sat, as when it goes from 4 to 3 sat. You're never going to get rid of complaints. And price moves down after a bubble just as fast too.

Karma is already one of the higher valued altcoins out there. Out of those that remain with higher marketcaps almost all have some sort of unique property. Wether that's being one of the older altcoins around, a unique mining algorithm, a unique "Proof of Something" method, advanced anonymity, a huge community, or being a whale's toy. Karma has basically left behind the entire shitcoin crowd, despite being a billion coin. I have no doubt it can grow further and moving the decimal won't do a thing to help but create confusion.

Did you discuss this change with Cryptsy / Mintpal? They have to agree, they have to accept it at first. It is lot of work for them. We should know that before we start the discussion at all. If any exchange will not agree, we have no option than let it be as is. The whole discussion is about keeping BTC market strong, so the first think to find out is, will be any change like this accepted by exchanges? And if yes, how fast?

1 dollar for 1000 coins would be 0.001$ per coin, 1 dollar for 1 coin would be 1$ per coin. So in theory the price per coin would be x1000 with a 1:1000 split. Meaning the marketcap would be exactly the same

Am I right in saying once you do the split the price of the coin will take the Same split or will the price still be 2sat??

I think that, if it is ever done, do it NOW and don't do it EVER again.
For this time, a 1:10 would be enough, why would you want to go to 1:1000? If you want this coin to be used in the commercial world you need a higher market cap, for adaption. If you go from 3 satoshi to 3000 satoshi, if the price rises it would go to 3010, 3020, 3030 etc. You make a 1 percent difference on something that could have been 33%. What you are trying go do with a 1:1000 split or even 1:100 is to try and keep the coin from not dying, but it has never been dying atm! You as a team know which projects are coming and that this price problem may only be here for a few more weeks, why the hell would you want to change it now if you could let the coin grow itself. We fought for this btc market. If it means we can do a reverse split whenever we want we wouldn't have had to fight for this market, we could've just reversed splitted the coin at 11 litoshi.
1:1000 feels never good, people WONT adapt. 1:10 may just be acceptable, but even that is not needed.
Lets be a billioncoin that succeeds, lets me a billioncoin that shows real value is inside of the coin, in the trust and development and not in the speculation.

If you dev's would change it from 1:1000, i would seriously start to doubt the trust you have in this coin, because you are scared the coin cant overcome this 1-20 satoshi range.

Cheers

Prove it:)

Lol I have a pretty good idea what is going on...no, I'm not the guy playing with 20 BTC.

LOL:) this is nuts:) Do you really think someone will throw 15 BTC buy order on KARMA based on some poll? HAHAHAHA. That guy with those BTC was playing with them for many days. He placed BUY order at 3 satoshi few days ago. It was like 15 BTC volume. It was filled, so he was trying to buy for 20 BTC at 2 satoshi. Nobody was selling at 2 satoshi, so he lifted half of buy orders at 2 and was waiting and hoping to buy cheap. Nobody was selling, very few dumpers dumped at 200 litoshi. Than he realized dumping is over and it is buy time. Don't be silly to think he placed that order based on some stupid thread post about reverse-split poll. It was just a result of low volume sell pressure.

Actually the price decline stopped and reversed within an hour of the poll being created. Look at the timing of the trades. Admittedly that only reflects the opinions of a few people, mine included.

I am against reverse-split. The reason is simple, BTC market is fine, price decline stopped. Nobody is selling now. There is a huge buy order at 3 satoshi. Yesterday was dumped last cheap Karma. It is impossible to buy KARMA at 250 litoshi now. So, why you want to do that? It is much much easier to grow from 3 satoshi to 30 satoshi than from 3000 satoshi to 30000 satoshi. We need trade volume, trade volume will come, when price will go up. Right now, people are holding and buying. Dumpers finished dumping. KARM can be first billion coin to succeed. Doge will die, KARMA can take its place now. Every reverse-split will make chaos, lot of work, lot of problems and if there is really not a very serious reason for that, do not do that. Karma is fine and on uptrend again.

I agree with pretty much everything Alphi said.

I also posted on the Karmashares forum on this topic. Just to make my voice heard here too, here's the tl;dr - I don't like the idea

Karma is - for all the advantages and disadvantages it brings - a "billion coin". It is one of the defining aspects of the coin. Keep it that way, please!

Please let your voices be heard here: http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,463.msg2391.html#msg2391

I, personally did not vote for or against any number...but I believe in the points you raised, this is a community controlled activity so it is imperative that all sides be properly heard.

+1 Alphi's previous comment. Do we really need this change..?

you should take a look at the coin Sat were billions did the same maneuver 1000:1 SAT2 currency lost and a lot was after 6 satoshi is 0.00002447 volume was even worsened, investors do not like these changes
https://www.mintpal.com/market/SAT2/BTC

the same thing happened to the lim = limx so that there is a terrible dev

I believe that we should not change the amount of coins, moreover, such was the assumption that the coins will be a lot and now we want to change? I understand what the transition to X11 X13 can to protect the interests of diggers coins

software developers are not investors nor are they economists. they should not be consulted for investment advice.

the more people talk about changing this crypto coin the more I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies.

Karma is a payment system and a currency, it is not a company and it is not a security.

crypto currency has value because of its utility and because it is to some degree finite.


the biggest selling point of BTC was that there could only ever be 21 million coins. this figure will never change and it is what gives BTC its value and scarcity.

there will only ever be 92 billion (or so) Karma coins... people accepted this fact when they bought into this experiment.

if you change that number, (no matter how you do it), then you send two very strong messages to the market.

Firstly you tell all holders of the coin that their investment is not secure. If you thought you had 100 Karma one day then the next day you could have 1... the day after that you could have 100,000...  all at the whim of a few very vocal self serving investors. (if a coin can be reverse split.. then absolutely nothing stops it from being split again in the future)

Secondly you tell future investors AND users of the currency that the coin is not stable.. if I open up my Karma fruit store on the side of the road selling all kinds of fruit... lets say apples for 50,000 Karma each, oranges for 20,000 karma some day in the future I will have change all of my prices, not only that but when I collect sales tax and then go to pay my quarterly tax obligations I am in a complete mess because someone has decided that half way though the financial year they would chop off a few zeros from every karma that I collected.. so now I have to reconcile two completely different sets of accounting numbers.


There is a reason that currencies are not split and reverse split (ie taking zeroes off and adding zeroes to the end).. and that is because it completely messes up the entire economy from the little grandma on the side of the road selling fruit to the large corporation trying to collect and pay its taxes).

Maybe in countries like Zimbabwe this happens but do you really want Karma to become the zimbabwe dollar of the crypto world?


Yes you can do it with shares on the NYSE no problem this is because shares are not, nor are they intended to be, used as a currency for day to day transactions.

And yes it can be argued that not many people are using Karm at the moment so it doesn't affect many people.. but that is beside the point..a dangerous precedent is being set here. I for one would never have invested in BTC if the developers could just change the numbers whenever it suited them.

If Karma splits then so will I... I'm just about done with people constantly arguing about how to manipulate the price.

This is not what Karma was designed for, this is not the ethos of Karma. If people do not like the idea of a currency which is supposed to used for altruism and education instead of making people rich.. then they should leave rather than try to take over the coin... because a coin that does not stick to its original selling point is pointless.

I have created a new thread for the proposed Finance and Accounting workgroup objectives for 2014 here:
http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,464.0.html

"Karma" and "Karmacoin" are now our registered trademarks

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2ad9hk/karma_and_karmacoin_are_now_our_registered/