10 votes supporting proposal #2.
For the reasons stated above, and adding that the Monero community will better engage a wider audience, by stepping outside of this (sometimes stinky) bubble that is bitcointalk. It is extremely difficult to organize subgroups for specialized discussion with the current communication format.
Cheers!
Topic: [ANN][MEW]Discussion&Vote #1 - Communication Strategy - Members only - page 4. (Read 4367 times)
October 06, 2014, 01:53:26 PM
October 06, 2014, 10:17:53 AM
100 Votes supporting proposal #1
Agreeing mainly with the arguments of the people above here.
Agreeing mainly with the arguments of the people above here.
October 06, 2014, 10:08:28 AM
110 Votes supporting proposal #1
Why change to something else unless the something else is better?
Proposal #2 is that we make something new.
If proposal #2 were changed to move to something else that is better, I'd support #2.
Some examples of forums I would think of as better include CryptoCrypt.org and Prolific.com.
Why change to something else unless the something else is better?
Proposal #2 is that we make something new.
If proposal #2 were changed to move to something else that is better, I'd support #2.
Some examples of forums I would think of as better include CryptoCrypt.org and Prolific.com.
October 06, 2014, 09:16:27 AM
300 votes
Support for proposal #1.
I believe that the MEW should provide the community with a good example of what should form one of the tenants of Crypto Currency Best Practice, that is to say that all coins should be backed by a visible community that supports the developers and helps build technical and non technical improvements whilst voting on important issues in a fair way. The MEW should have a presence here so that all users can be reminded of the work it does and the amount of money that it has so far passed directly onto the developers.
Remember that it is not just the people who are in the workgroup who should be reading these threads. Anyone who sees issues being voted on and actions being taken should be able to take something from the process and press their own community to build a similar group.
If we were to remove quality discussion from this forum it would not only make it hard for new users to find the MEW in order for it to grow but also would let the weeds and discontent thrive on Bitcointalk poisoning the well for everyone.
Generally the community is getting better, remember back to when a outright ponzi scheme launched by Pirateat40 (sp) was responsible for moving the BTC price 20% over a couple of months. FUD and trolls will continue to be a problem, however the fix isn't to ignore the problem, its to change the culture surrounding crypto currency.
Support for proposal #1.
I believe that the MEW should provide the community with a good example of what should form one of the tenants of Crypto Currency Best Practice, that is to say that all coins should be backed by a visible community that supports the developers and helps build technical and non technical improvements whilst voting on important issues in a fair way. The MEW should have a presence here so that all users can be reminded of the work it does and the amount of money that it has so far passed directly onto the developers.
Remember that it is not just the people who are in the workgroup who should be reading these threads. Anyone who sees issues being voted on and actions being taken should be able to take something from the process and press their own community to build a similar group.
If we were to remove quality discussion from this forum it would not only make it hard for new users to find the MEW in order for it to grow but also would let the weeds and discontent thrive on Bitcointalk poisoning the well for everyone.
Generally the community is getting better, remember back to when a outright ponzi scheme launched by Pirateat40 (sp) was responsible for moving the BTC price 20% over a couple of months. FUD and trolls will continue to be a problem, however the fix isn't to ignore the problem, its to change the culture surrounding crypto currency.
October 06, 2014, 08:42:24 AM
1,000 votes
Support for proposal #1.
Decision-making would be easy if the proposals had only pros and no cons. Here I am concerned about the correct balance between robustness and getting-things-happen. Some may hold the view that Monero is a hobby project and it's nice to see what happens. I do not have such a view - I am a person wanting to be an instrument of change in the world to the better, and also investor. My sense of urgency is therefore greater than that of someone with less stake in the project. When I played Civilization series, it took me long to think about the moves. I never thought that now is the time to take it easy. But the result was that I usually won.
So now the background is that Monero has been very active in the forum, currently holding 5/35 places in the Altcoin subforum main page. It has been also contested - 2/5 of the entries are ridicule threads and only 3/5 are supporter threads (currently: this voting, Monero Speculation, and Jojatekok's GUI wallet). With great visibility comes great responsibility. Monero's enemies have found it very lucrative to set up accounts posing as Monero supporters, to make Monero look silly, and even to accuse it of spamming the whole section.
A knee-jerk reaction by some supporters was to actually start preparations for doing it. I believe this is a worthy long-term goal. Currently, due to my failed attempts of trying to move out of BCT myself (to smaller, "quality" forums), I cannot yet support it. With the recent price action, it is likely that the number of users has shrank with the marketcap, possibly numbering only 5,000. Of this target group alone, I don't think I will find enough audience for my posting and cannot personally think of moving. I can only post the cream of the crop to one place, and if it is here, what is the reason for the other?
This thread is trying to serve as an example where quality much outweighs quantity. I hope that at present, all the advantages of a separate forum, save privacy, can be instated here as well, with much greater audience. The separate MEW website project with blogs and links should be done if a dedicated administrator can be found. Finding the right way to do these things takes time, but time for turning the tide of XMR is now. Therefore I am in favor of fully taking into advantage of BCT until we have the critical mass of users for the dedicated forum.
It also cannot be underestimated that while there is vocal ridicule concerning the way the MEW is "institutionalizing" Monero (with the hope of its quick demise as a result), it may also be that some of the $1,000,000,000s worth of people who actually read BCT, may find the governance model something they have vainly sought after until now, and decide to give it a go. Even if our primary audience is in the people that do not own any cryptocurrencies, it would be sad to forsake the opportunity of showing BCT that things can be made differently, and to make it shown brightly, we must practice it consistently for at least 3-6 months, the duration of this decision.
The IRC channel that we have, is private, but is not suitable for structured conversation, nor for presenting issues in a coherent way. I will certainly continue to use it, and encourage others to do so, as a complement.
Support for proposal #1.
Decision-making would be easy if the proposals had only pros and no cons. Here I am concerned about the correct balance between robustness and getting-things-happen. Some may hold the view that Monero is a hobby project and it's nice to see what happens. I do not have such a view - I am a person wanting to be an instrument of change in the world to the better, and also investor. My sense of urgency is therefore greater than that of someone with less stake in the project. When I played Civilization series, it took me long to think about the moves. I never thought that now is the time to take it easy. But the result was that I usually won.
So now the background is that Monero has been very active in the forum, currently holding 5/35 places in the Altcoin subforum main page. It has been also contested - 2/5 of the entries are ridicule threads and only 3/5 are supporter threads (currently: this voting, Monero Speculation, and Jojatekok's GUI wallet). With great visibility comes great responsibility. Monero's enemies have found it very lucrative to set up accounts posing as Monero supporters, to make Monero look silly, and even to accuse it of spamming the whole section.
A knee-jerk reaction by some supporters was to actually start preparations for doing it. I believe this is a worthy long-term goal. Currently, due to my failed attempts of trying to move out of BCT myself (to smaller, "quality" forums), I cannot yet support it. With the recent price action, it is likely that the number of users has shrank with the marketcap, possibly numbering only 5,000. Of this target group alone, I don't think I will find enough audience for my posting and cannot personally think of moving. I can only post the cream of the crop to one place, and if it is here, what is the reason for the other?
This thread is trying to serve as an example where quality much outweighs quantity. I hope that at present, all the advantages of a separate forum, save privacy, can be instated here as well, with much greater audience. The separate MEW website project with blogs and links should be done if a dedicated administrator can be found. Finding the right way to do these things takes time, but time for turning the tide of XMR is now. Therefore I am in favor of fully taking into advantage of BCT until we have the critical mass of users for the dedicated forum.
It also cannot be underestimated that while there is vocal ridicule concerning the way the MEW is "institutionalizing" Monero (with the hope of its quick demise as a result), it may also be that some of the $1,000,000,000s worth of people who actually read BCT, may find the governance model something they have vainly sought after until now, and decide to give it a go. Even if our primary audience is in the people that do not own any cryptocurrencies, it would be sad to forsake the opportunity of showing BCT that things can be made differently, and to make it shown brightly, we must practice it consistently for at least 3-6 months, the duration of this decision.
The IRC channel that we have, is private, but is not suitable for structured conversation, nor for presenting issues in a coherent way. I will certainly continue to use it, and encourage others to do so, as a complement.
October 06, 2014, 06:53:21 AM
1,000 votes
To set up a new whole proposal.
Proposal text (#2 ver 1)
Whereas, BCT has been proven to be a great drain of time and energy for Monero users;
Whereas, directing new people to BCT is a shame due to high FUD content and low S/N ratio almost throughout;
Whereas, the possible surge of XMR, related or not related to the turnaround in BTC requires a fresh new start, free of the baggage of the past and attempts of outsiders to influence it (which is also forbidden by our rules);
Whereas, the situation at hand allows us to concentrate on there organizational activities better, due to the lack of financial resources to do something that actually costs money;
Now, therefore, we decide that the MEW will as soon as is practical, move its internal communication to dedicated forums, which also allow encryption, ease of moderated discussions and small workgroups. This move should be made in connection to the larger migration of Monero community to its dedicated forums.
To set up a new whole proposal.
Proposal text (#2 ver 1)
Whereas, BCT has been proven to be a great drain of time and energy for Monero users;
Whereas, directing new people to BCT is a shame due to high FUD content and low S/N ratio almost throughout;
Whereas, the possible surge of XMR, related or not related to the turnaround in BTC requires a fresh new start, free of the baggage of the past and attempts of outsiders to influence it (which is also forbidden by our rules);
Whereas, the situation at hand allows us to concentrate on there organizational activities better, due to the lack of financial resources to do something that actually costs money;
Now, therefore, we decide that the MEW will as soon as is practical, move its internal communication to dedicated forums, which also allow encryption, ease of moderated discussions and small workgroups. This move should be made in connection to the larger migration of Monero community to its dedicated forums.
October 06, 2014, 06:45:07 AM
1,000 votes
To set up a new whole proposal.
Proposal text (#1 ver 1)
Whereas, BCT has been proven to be an energetic platform for discussion;
Whereas, almost all the members of the MEW are active in BCT already, making its use very convenient;
Whereas, the recent fall in BTC price and the decimation of altcoins has lead to our userbase and fiat resources shrinking considerably and they must be put to more important uses than setting up proprietary forums and communication tools;
Whereas, the current altcoinworld holds a great deal of people that over time could be persuaded of Monero's speciality (especially MEW, which they don't have);
Now, therefore, we decide that the MEW will base both its internal and external communication as much as is practical in BCT (not stopping the use of existing proprietary channels, however, but also not pushing the new members to use them).
To set up a new whole proposal.
Proposal text (#1 ver 1)
Whereas, BCT has been proven to be an energetic platform for discussion;
Whereas, almost all the members of the MEW are active in BCT already, making its use very convenient;
Whereas, the recent fall in BTC price and the decimation of altcoins has lead to our userbase and fiat resources shrinking considerably and they must be put to more important uses than setting up proprietary forums and communication tools;
Whereas, the current altcoinworld holds a great deal of people that over time could be persuaded of Monero's speciality (especially MEW, which they don't have);
Now, therefore, we decide that the MEW will base both its internal and external communication as much as is practical in BCT (not stopping the use of existing proprietary channels, however, but also not pushing the new members to use them).
October 06, 2014, 06:34:57 AM
Welcome to the first MEW economic* discussion and voting round.
*votepower-based
Dear sirs,
The thing to discuss and vote upon is the midterm strategic direction on where to take our communication, both internal and external. Midterm is 3-6 months. The result of the D&V round is a "Resolution". The following excerpts from our Articles of Association govern/relate to this round:
As Operational Executive, tasked to organize the voting in practice, I have made the following decision concerning how it shall be carried out:
- Discussion time is the stated 168 hours following the timestamp of this post. During this time we should optimally find a consensus on the result so that the actual voting will quickly reach the supermajority (not defined strictly, but indicates an economic near-consensus). If not, two proposals will be drafted and put to vote against each other.
- The official discussion will be made in this thread under strict supervision. No outsiders may take part of the discussion, only MEW members appearing in the official vote list may do. Members Executive David Latapie updates the list and it will be updated before the voting commences.
- It is encouraged to use any and all other communication channels for discussion as well, proprietary and public. Using them, it is possible to hear also the non-member feedback, which may be useful (remember, non-members account for 60%+ of the moneros, and 100% of the newcomers!
)
- The Resolution will be in a (Whereas, Whereas, Whereas, ..., Now, therefore) format. This means that there are several items of background information for the resolution, including why it is important to make it, and why the result reached is better than the proposed alternatives. It shall be less than 1 page long in total, about half a page is good.
- Posting to this thread shall be made according to the rules. First the poster states his number of votes, and may post any additional introduction if he so wishes. Then he posts the reason of posting, which may be supporting some proposal (or part thereof), adding a new proposal (or part thereof), or "discussion" (including debunking existing proposals). If the post is about the practicalities of voting, instead of the content being discussed, use "interrupt", but sparingly. I will delete interrupts when they are addressed.
- If everyone understands that we are talking about issues instead of people, and in the end only the number of votes count, hopefully it is not needed to go any more to the depths of moderation.
*votepower-based
Dear sirs,
The thing to discuss and vote upon is the midterm strategic direction on where to take our communication, both internal and external. Midterm is 3-6 months. The result of the D&V round is a "Resolution". The following excerpts from our Articles of Association govern/relate to this round:
Quote
To become a member, one has to buy votes, which carry a fixed price 1 XMR per 1 vote. One Identity is allowed to buy maximum 1000 votes. Minimum is defined by MEW according to what is practical [currently: 10 votes /RP].
- - -
MEW is a direct democracy based on economic majority. The highest governing body is community vote (CV), which has the jurisdiction on all matters, unless otherwise specified, with a simple majority of votes cast ("majority"), unless otherwise specified.
- - -
MEW disregards non-member attempts to influence its action, welcoming the interested parties to become members instead.
- - -
Voting may be regarding:
- General Fund spending initiative
- Appointment or dismissal of an Executive
- Making a Resolution
- Making a Public Declaration
- Change of the Articles of Association
Voting procedure is as follows:
- voting is triggered
- matter to be voted upon is published
- 168 hours of discussion time
- final proposal to be voted upon is fixed
- 168 hours of voting time
- publishing of the result
All resolutions except spending may be passed in express order as follows: if a required majority of all outstanding votes is affirmative, the result is immediately obtained.
To give weight to the vote, it is possible to attach a conditional resignation to the vote. If the result comes against such voter, he is automatically resigned from MEW as a result and refunded. If the vote was concerning spending and the voter was against it, his refund is calculated prior to the spending takes place. It is not possible to revert such resignation except by applying for membership anew.
Members may proxy all or part of their vote-power to another member. No member may have more than 10,000 total vote-power, if this happens the excess will not be counted.
- - -
MEW is a direct democracy based on economic majority. The highest governing body is community vote (CV), which has the jurisdiction on all matters, unless otherwise specified, with a simple majority of votes cast ("majority"), unless otherwise specified.
- - -
MEW disregards non-member attempts to influence its action, welcoming the interested parties to become members instead.
- - -
Voting may be regarding:
- General Fund spending initiative
- Appointment or dismissal of an Executive
- Making a Resolution
- Making a Public Declaration
- Change of the Articles of Association
Voting procedure is as follows:
- voting is triggered
- matter to be voted upon is published
- 168 hours of discussion time
- final proposal to be voted upon is fixed
- 168 hours of voting time
- publishing of the result
All resolutions except spending may be passed in express order as follows: if a required majority of all outstanding votes is affirmative, the result is immediately obtained.
To give weight to the vote, it is possible to attach a conditional resignation to the vote. If the result comes against such voter, he is automatically resigned from MEW as a result and refunded. If the vote was concerning spending and the voter was against it, his refund is calculated prior to the spending takes place. It is not possible to revert such resignation except by applying for membership anew.
Members may proxy all or part of their vote-power to another member. No member may have more than 10,000 total vote-power, if this happens the excess will not be counted.
As Operational Executive, tasked to organize the voting in practice, I have made the following decision concerning how it shall be carried out:
- Discussion time is the stated 168 hours following the timestamp of this post. During this time we should optimally find a consensus on the result so that the actual voting will quickly reach the supermajority (not defined strictly, but indicates an economic near-consensus). If not, two proposals will be drafted and put to vote against each other.
- The official discussion will be made in this thread under strict supervision. No outsiders may take part of the discussion, only MEW members appearing in the official vote list may do. Members Executive David Latapie updates the list and it will be updated before the voting commences.
- It is encouraged to use any and all other communication channels for discussion as well, proprietary and public. Using them, it is possible to hear also the non-member feedback, which may be useful (remember, non-members account for 60%+ of the moneros, and 100% of the newcomers!
)- The Resolution will be in a (Whereas, Whereas, Whereas, ..., Now, therefore) format. This means that there are several items of background information for the resolution, including why it is important to make it, and why the result reached is better than the proposed alternatives. It shall be less than 1 page long in total, about half a page is good.
- Posting to this thread shall be made according to the rules. First the poster states his number of votes, and may post any additional introduction if he so wishes. Then he posts the reason of posting, which may be supporting some proposal (or part thereof), adding a new proposal (or part thereof), or "discussion" (including debunking existing proposals). If the post is about the practicalities of voting, instead of the content being discussed, use "interrupt", but sparingly. I will delete interrupts when they are addressed.
- If everyone understands that we are talking about issues instead of people, and in the end only the number of votes count, hopefully it is not needed to go any more to the depths of moderation.
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