Topic: [ANN][MOTO] Motocoin - page 41. (Read 178256 times)

yes

I think  

no go

nothing wrong except

Beep Code    Descriptions
3 short            Base 64K RAM failure  

Strange.  WilliamLie2 might have to field this one, since I really don't know much about the windows build.  It is quite possible that I broke something on it, I suppose.   Did the original client work?  Try another PC, if you are able.  Perhaps there is something wrong with the OpenGL/glfw stack on that machine.

not there

This would imply that the wallet thinks it has a running motogame. Can you look in your task manager process list and see if motogame is there?

I clicked once to play, from wallet

I just did some rough estimates, and we probably have about 24-48 hours remaining for minimum-difficulty blocks, depending mostly upon whether or not the weekend brings in more play.

It is unfortunately mapped to f7, so in moments of frustration I also find myself accidentally hammering on it, and find myself staring at a black screen with minim1ner filter.  Then I just feel some regret for having ever wasted effort putting it in the wallet in the first place. ;-)

If you close and re-launch motogame, it should take you back to the default None filter.  If this isn't the case, please let me know!

If you try to run motogame through the wallet and then look in debug.log do you see CreateNewBlock entries in the log when you are trying to launch?  This will tell us if the wallet "thinks" that motogame is running or not.

yes

It is some very serious play!

This is a question I've wrestled with since finding MOTO myself.  One way in which this project "feels" differentiated from HUC is that there is this whole question to it of how much "play" can directly be "valued" as what we consider "work" if we make some peculiar mathematical assumptions.  HUC avoids that question with it's traditional PoW hashing work.

If we embed into the practice of "play" something called "computational cycle" in order to attach both time and energy burn costs, and use it to secure some transaction log, is it still "play" at all?

if we use a "proof-of-work" that presents itself as an enjoyable "video game" for people to "play" in order to (in addition to the subsidy) attract and reward miners, without breaking any constraints of the definition of "proof-of-work," is it still "work" at all?

(What if we make that work/play thing also be a collaborative scientific discovery process? WTF is it then?  Work? Play? School? Lab? Library? )

I know which sort of mines I'd like to be toiling in over the coming years.

Why the filter is switching? How turn it off?

Good on ya!


This is hard to say, currently.  The work curve calculations were done on "scaled down" difficulty maps, and includes a probabilistic analysis over extremely low TT solutions.  It is hard to say what low TT solutions on a full map will actually look like until we get there under the new configuration.  Other factors such as the combination of path-finding times and potential warp corrections could complicate the question.


To start, we could just increase the static path length requirement.  This basically gives us something of an inflection point on our whole curve, allowing us to move the "exponential portion" of the logistic curve either direction along the horizontal (TT) axis.  By changing base work requirements (such as hashing rounds required in map generation) we can affect both the base and slope (really, growth rate) of the exponential portion of the curve, as well.  This gives us the ability to "shape" our work function requirements to network conditions over time.  (In theory, this could eventually be automated within protocol itself.)

Our goal is basically to never again allow the work curve to pragmatically "become shaped like" a full logistic S curve.  As long as it continues to be shaped such that play is only allowed within the exponential growth portion of the curve, we are fine.  If the "leveling off" of the work at low TT presents itself again, and the average work curve pragmatically shows as an S curve again, the challenge will need to be further hardened as the network would then again be at risk of a warp attack.

I hope to find some time to put together some animated graphs to illustrate this whole mess, and how "bad" it actually got.    A very simply way to think of it is like this: If you can quickly solve an ~8.7 second straight line solution, what is the work difference between a TT of 60 seconds, 30 seconds, 15 seconds, or ~8.7 seconds?  Answer: virtually none.  Once you get to a "perfect solver" for unconstrained maps the logistic curve has "flattened" so that the exponential portion is basically all the way at the left (small differences in the start of the map, etc, make it never "practically vertical" entirely) and work over your range of TTs flat-lines - it is all the same work required at any difficulty.

We actually got there.


Less straight paths.  Even just removing one bit (50%) out of the available map nonce space seems to have made a significant improvement in balancing mining!  (None of the nonce values I've seen have been very large... "big" nonces are now back in the tens.)  There's a small performance trade-off, here, but I think it can easily be managed with simple mechanisms like background map work, as WilliamLie mentioned.

I cannot tell if this is serious or not but WTF I love it! 

The "questionable" bots might be me. I usually play on a faster speed.

At what stage would the maps be impossible to finish? You mentioned that increasing the difficulty if the bots start taking over again or if it is too easy. What would change? More polygons? Less straight paths?

I'd suggesting practicing in "ForFun" mode, first.  Just run motogame by itself, not through the wallet, then you will not have map resets when blocks come in.  While practicing, forget about the coin and just drive around for awhile first.  Watch replays and see how people handle different "tough" situations, and then try replicating.  Get comfortable using quick rewinds to re-try failed moves a few times.  Figure out if you're more comfortable playing in "overview" mode with the full map display, or switching back and forth, or just staying zoomed in after selecting a map.

Most importantly, work on learning how to quickly asses if a map is actually do-able or not!

The game is only going to get more difficult again from here.  At 60 seconds on TT there is actually relatively little challenge, and anyone with a bit of practice can grab coins pretty easily, even during the peak mining hours.  If I can get blocks right now I assure you that anyone can.  I'm really really bad.  I can tell that we have a couple of very skilled human players mining again, so when competition does heat up and TT starts reducing things are going to be interesting.

It is important to keep in mind that right now the network is still potentially in a fragile state.  Our chain crashed - this is no insignificant event!  Our work function changed rather drastically.  It would be best to be cautious, and consider things to be "extra experimental" right now.

I would not recommend a big push for adoption until after the dust settles.  Until we hit our first setting of target, I would strongly advise caution to anyone accepting Moto!  Wait for extra confirms.  Check getchains output often.  Be paranoid.  The network literally can't be less secure than it is right now, it is explicitly set to lowest difficulty until re-target.

I know that this is not the usual song and dance that you seem to see from most devs, who would push for exchanges and adoption at any cost, so it may seem strange.  I assure you that it is critical.

Past block 180000 we can have more confidence in the new configuration and can trust that sufficient work is being built onto the chain.  Even then, care should be taken.  We are trying some very new things.  Many coins claim to be cutting edge.  Moto was already on the "bleeding edge."  With the developments over the past weeks we've jumped straight into the wound.

This is not to say that I see/anticipate any specific reason for concern.  With the exception of initially having what I would consider dangerously low hash-rate applied the relaunch appears to have gone very cleanly.  We had an early fork of 7 blocks while old peers were banning new versions as misbehaving, but no transactions appear to have been conducted at the time.  Subsequent forks have all been only 1 or 2 blocks long.  The couple of things that I've done in testnet to further verify the new setup have all shown positive results.  Bots are either not coming online at all, or failing to make any significant showing, so I don't think they'll suddenly overrun humans again.  There are a few blocks in the chain that are "questionably" botted, as they were submitted a bit more quickly than their run's time, but could just be good humans practicing at a faster frame-rate, "training" for when difficulty increases.  I do intend to try "botting" again myself at some point, but this hasn't been much of a priority for me, yet.

There is certainly a bright future for Moto, if we survive this reboot.  I have no doubt that many exchanges will want to get on board.  We will see unique services and applications, not even "in context" to other coins.  After Thier's Law runs its course, Moto will be one of the very few offerings left standing, because it actually has something to offer!  This will happen, all in good time, but it would be exuberantly foolish to try to rush things, and likely downright dangerous.  (I highly suggest reading Satoshi's own comments on the matter of pushing for adoption rate.  What he had to say might surprise you.)

Can you run motogame.exe by itself, not from the wallet?

This game is really hard, spend an hour and get nothing

amm doesnt want to go,w ill retray
I get this on wallet exit

If you use Windows, try to download and install Visual C++ Redistributable Packages: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=40784