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Topic: [ANN][PIVX] - PRIVATE INSTANT VERIFIED TRANSACTION - PROOF OF STAKE - ZEROCOIN - page 34. (Read 782450 times)

sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 270
Guys,

I'm trying to get my head around MN reward payments. According to PIVX PoS Rewards Breakdown specified on website and github pages, the current Phase (based on current block # 1277292 at the time of writing this) is this :

Phase X   648000-Infinite   5 PIV   90% (4.5 PIV)   10% (0.5 PIV)

taken from https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX

So masternode reward should be 4.5 PIVX, however when I look on masternode payments https://pivx.ccore.online/masternodes , masternodes are getting either 3 PIVX or 2 PIVX.

My questions is why is it 2 or 3 and not a constant single figure and mainly why is it not 4.5 as specified per PIVX POS Rewards.

Cheers.

Unfortunately, you're looking at outdated information--and you're right, there are a few places where the info needs to be updated, so it's not your fault at all for thinking this.

The TL;DR is that with the implementation of zPiv staking earlier this year, the reward system changed slightly. See my recycled response below--the second half may be more technical than you need, but the first half addresses your question:

Now that zPiv staking is implemented, new blocks are found by MNs, regular Piv stakers, and zPiv stakers. While the outcome differs depending on who finds the block, the basic idea of 'finding a block' is the same regardless.

Now, here are some additional factors to consider re: the implementation of zPiv staking (disclaimer: I'm not a dev or in any way associated with the project).

First, the see-saw mechanism was removed because 1 is the smallest zPiv accumulator value, and the block rewards therefore have to be multiples of 1. The dynamic nature of the see-saw approach results in constantly varying fractions, which are unfortunately not compatible with zPiv. This changed the incentive structure somewhat, and in fact the new system is deliberately designed to incentivize the conversion of Piv to zPiv. Which brings up the next point--

Second, block rewards increased from 5 Piv to 6 Piv, distributed as follows:

  • if a Piv staker or masternode finds the block: 3 Piv to MN; 2 Piv to Staker; 1 Piv to budget
  • if a zPiv staker finds the block: 2 Piv to MN; 3 Piv to Staker; 1 Piv to budget

As you can see, this means that the total 'public' reward increases from 4.5 to 5. Meanwhile, the potential allocation to budget increases from 0.5 to 1 (as is currently the case, each month's budget is created as a single 'superblock', based on whatever proposals have been accepted. Any un-needed budget--e.g. if there are not enough proposals to spend it on--is not created each month, so 1 Piv/block for the budget is a maximum value; in practice, the amount is usually lower). You'll also see that the reward for staking zPiv is 50% greater than for staking regular Piv (3 vs. 2).

Third, the potential increase in supply is offset by the strong incentive to convert Piv to zPiv for the purposes of staking. zPiv transactions are more expensive, and fees will continue to be burnt (plus 'extra' budget will simply not be created in the first place). If you run the math, it turns out that the 'tipping point' between inflation and deflation is somewhere between 2.8 and 10 zPiv (not Piv) transactions per second. (Variation is based on what assumptions you make; most likely numbers are toward the lower end of that range. Note also that because un-needed budget is not created, voting for or against proposals effectively amounts to a choice between implementing a feature or reducing inflation). Whatever the exact tipping point number is, if zPiv transactions/second exceed that number then PIVX will be deflationary, even with the increased reward structure. Less than that number, and it will remain inflationary.

Overall, these changes are in line with PIVX's goal of implementing full-time anonymity features. Stakers are the primary block validators on a PoS network, while masternodes are 'facilitators' that offer an extra layer of verification, improve transaction time, and allow the blockchain to be downloaded faster. In effect, Stakers are 'must haves' while masternodes are 'nice-to-haves'; meanwhile, if full-time anonymity is considered important, then converting most Piv to zPiv is a borderline 'must have' also. The incentive being given to stake zPiv reinforces these facts and takes PIVX closer to full-time anonymity. Note also that non-masternode-based voting options are planned to eventually be rolled out (https://github.com/PIVX-Project/CDG), so any significant increase in staking shouldn't adversely affect the passing of proposals or other governance activities in the long run.

Meanwhile, the allocation to budget was increased to reflect the need for strong, ongoing development during this formative--and competitive--period. It allows PIVX to continue to hire and pay the best Devs (for reference, currently core devs are paid 1000 Piv/mo to work full time) and implement new features faster and more successfully--and if un-needed, it will not be created, further reducing inflation. Long term, especially if/when PIVX's price increases, the budget allocation may be reduced, but even now it's less than the allocation found in many other projects. And the overall increase from 5 to 6 Piv per block is offset by the expected increase in the number of zPiv transactions. Fees will still be burnt, and PIVX will remain barely inflationary, or possibly deflationary as the number of transactions increases.
sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 270
I purchased some PIVX today because I wanted to diversify. It must have been about an hour ago that I made a transfer to my PIVX wallet and I am still waiting for the PIVX to show up. When I transfer SOLARIS XLR, the coin is transferred almost immediately. I am kind of regretting my PIVX purchase now but perhaps the slowness is positive?

Can someone enlighten me or give me hope I have not made a mistake?  Why would you choose a privacy coin that is super slow?

Perhaps my transfer is abnormal and usually it is fast?

I would like to know.

Thanks.

Update:  A transaction came in but it was only a fraction of what I had sent to my wallet.  WHAT IS GOING ON?Huh?
IT HAS BEEN QUITE A FEW HOURS NOW AND STILL NO PIVX HAS COME INTO MY WALLET.  WHY I GOT THE MINTED HALF COIN
IS A MYSTERY WHEN I WAS NOT EVEN STAKING.

PIVX transfers are generally pretty instantaneous, so there is probably something else going on here (e.g., I transferred some yesterday; it took a couple of seconds between wallets and a couple of minutes to Binance. And, in 2.5 years of using PIVX, I don't think I've ever had a transfer take more than a few minutes).

- Were you withdrawing from an exchange to your wallet? If so, there can certainly be delays, but those are typically related to the exchange processing your request. Also, what exchange did you use? This can make a big difference.
- Did you check the tx id on a block explorer to confirm that it was indeed processed? And of course your wallet is fully synced, yes? That takes a couple of hours if you're starting a new desktop instance from scratch.
- The fractional mint is weird; I don't have an explanation for that. Rewards come in a set size of 2.xx Piv, so getting half a Piv implies something else is going on.

Most importantly, have you gone on Discord? In order of activity, it's Discord >>> Reddit > BCT. You'll get a faster answer from much more knowledgeable people there.
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
Guys,

I'm trying to get my head around MN reward payments. According to PIVX PoS Rewards Breakdown specified on website and github pages, the current Phase (based on current block # 1277292 at the time of writing this) is this :

Phase X   648000-Infinite   5 PIV   90% (4.5 PIV)   10% (0.5 PIV)

taken from https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX

So masternode reward should be 4.5 PIVX, however when I look on masternode payments https://pivx.ccore.online/masternodes , masternodes are getting either 3 PIVX or 2 PIVX.

My questions is why is it 2 or 3 and not a constant single figure and mainly why is it not 4.5 as specified per PIVX POS Rewards.

Cheers.
full member
Activity: 552
Merit: 110
I purchased some PIVX today because I wanted to diversify. It must have been several hours ago that I made a transfer to my PIVX wallet and I am still waiting for the PIVX to show up. When I transfer SOLARIS XLR, the coin is transferred almost immediately. I am kind of regretting my PIVX purchase now but perhaps the slowness is positive?

Can someone enlighten me or give me hope I have not made a mistake?  Why would you choose a privacy coin that is super slow?

Perhaps my transfer is abnormal and usually it is fast?

I would like to know.

Thanks.
jr. member
Activity: 182
Merit: 2
A coin security, an excellent choice for potential coin storage investment. PIVX is also extremely focused on promoting, promoting the advantages. With abundant capital and professional marketing strategy, PIVX builds a large community and develops rapidly
sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 270
how many masternodes are running right now in pivx network?

See more information here. Currently there are 1739 online masternodes.

I'm guessing @migz meant here (1726 at this moment, but there's always a bit of fluctuation): http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html
member
Activity: 143
Merit: 10
how many masternodes are running right now in pivx network?

See more information here. Currently there are 1739 online masternodes.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
how many masternodes are running right now in pivx network?
member
Activity: 126
Merit: 10
I wondering whats is better wallet for Win7 light desktop or Win installer?
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
strange happenings on pivx

I kept 20k exactly of these from a while back

on the previous wallet it had at some point converted 10% into zpiv (fair enough)

over months the combined was 20k and the stakes...

Now the latest wallet shows

18700 ish total with no zpivs??

was there some issue that could have caused this.

Have tried deleting entire BC and starting fresh... same result?
sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 270
I just read on twitter that PIVX have plan to masternode. Can you give information to me?

PIVX has had masternodes for as long as it has existed (early 2016). This is NOT a new feature. Typing 'PIVX masternode' into Google will give you a lot more info, but here are two resources:

General info: https://pivxmasternode.org/

Rewards monitor: http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html
full member
Activity: 406
Merit: 100
I just read on twitter that PIVX have plan to masternode. Can you give information to me?
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
...

2. This is the master sheet comparing privacy coins: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-weHt0PiIZWyXs1Uzp7QIUKk9TX7aa15RtFc8JJpn7g/edit#gid=237137882 It was developed collaboratively and is as close to impartial information as you're going to find in the crypto space. Perhaps it will help you in your analysis.
...

Thanks!
 That google doc is interesting.  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 270
Why should one buy PIVX instead of other privacy coin? I can't decide whether I should buy this coin or not.

Two years ago this coin cost less than one cent and past bull run up to 13 dollar. The current price is around 2 dollar and seems still a little bit high.

1. As you likely know, the price of almost all cryptos remains speculative. Most projects are still months or years away from delivering on whatever it is they are promising to do. So, it's probably better to think in terms of potential growth and adoption of a project, rather than in terms of USD pricing. A project might, hypothetically, grow well relative to other cryptos and achieve significant adoption, yet find a valuation below where it is today. We just don't know. (Also, short term, there's going to be a bumpy ride until there's concrete news about the BTC ETF approval: if it's approved, BTC may spike at the expense of all alts for a while; if it's not approved, BTC may falter, also at the expense of alts.)

1a. PIVX's run from ~0 to ~$2 or $3 was largely driven by discovery. PIVX was known as DarkNet Coin initially and, while signs of its potential were there from the start, there were a lot of shitcoins around so market skepticism was high. The rebrand to PIVX, plus an initial marketing push, made a lot of investors go 'Whoa, this project is actually really good'. So you might say this initial rise was driven mostly by PIVX's own merits. On the other hand, the rise from $2 or $3 to > $13.50 was purely driven by overall market speculation and FOMO in late 2017/early2018.

2. This is the master sheet comparing privacy coins: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-weHt0PiIZWyXs1Uzp7QIUKk9TX7aa15RtFc8JJpn7g/edit#gid=237137882 It was developed collaboratively and is as close to impartial information as you're going to find in the crypto space. Perhaps it will help you in your analysis.

3. There are other good privacy coin projects out there. Most represent some kind of tradeoff between security and convenience as a currency; others focus on serving as a secure platform. I am certainly not going to suggest that other projects are crap or that PIVX is clearly the best. But, factoring everything in, I think a reasonably objective case can be made that PIVX is in the top 3 - 5 'best' privacy coins, insofar as it has strong features, fast transfer speeds, reasonable ease of use, a full-time, professional team, and a great community (again, review the spreadsheet for specifics). And it is arguably the 'best' Proof-of-Stake privacy coin. The question then becomes, relative to the 2 - 4 OTHER coins that might be in the 'best' conversation, how does PIVX's future growth potential stack up? Aside from continuing to rank among the most secure privacy coins, PIVX has some other important features ahead (https://pivx.org/what-is-pivx/roadmap/ )--for example, the zDEX decentralized exchange. How do you feel about those planned features?

4. Ultimately, the answer to your question depends on a) how you feel about PIVX's upcoming features vs. the 'competition'; b) how you feel about PIVX's marketing of those features vs. the marketing of other projects (e.g., a 'worse' project could still beat a 'better' one if it succeeds in capturing users' attention better; conversely, a project that has not yet begun to strongly market itself might have more room for growth than one that is already well-known); and c) how you feel about the privacy coin space as a whole (will it grow? become marginalized due to regulations? something else?).

5. Finally, my personal opinion, with the caveats that it is not advice, I am not an expert, and you should DYOR and reach your own conclusions. You mentioned that the current price seems a bit high. Again, I would argue that we can't say much about 'high' or 'low' in a fundamentally speculative market, but whatever PIVX is, I don't think it is out of line vs. other privacy coins--i.e., I don't think it's MORE overvalued; if anything, I'd say its relatively low profile makes it somewhat undervalued vs. other options (at least the well-known ones). Its privacy features are right up there with the best. In terms of growth potential, I think there is more room for growth with PIVX than for, say, Monero, but whether it actually achieves that growth is another matter. I absolutely think the PIVX team will deliver on its promises; they've always done that and I see no reason for them to stop (and I've been here pretty much since the beginning). But delivering on promises doesn't necessarily translate to mainstream adoption, and PIVX doesn't have first-mover advantage. So, while I think PIVX will do well in the future, it may not do very well unless a) one of its new features (e.g., zDEX) turns out to be unexpectedly super-awesome, or b) the privacy coin space does especially well vs. other projects. Personally, I think that both the privacy coin space and the currency space will be somewhat niche markets in future, and that blockchain's primary use-cases will fall in the utilities. That puts me in the awkward position of, on the one hand, thinking that PIVX is a great project with a great community and devs and strong roadmap for the future and, on the other hand, thinking that despite all of this, there are some red flags regarding the sector of the market that it is courting. So the most honest answer I can give is that I think PIVX is definitely worth investing in IF you believe in the future of private currencies. All crypto investments are risky bets; all we can do is assess the risks as best we can, and make the choices we consider least risky relative to the potential reward. (Disclosure: I continue to hold PIVX. Not as much as I once did, but still. It will always have a special place in my heart, whatever happens.)
jr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 1
Why should one buy PIVX instead of other privacy coin? I can't decide whether I should buy this coin or not.

Two years ago this coin cost less than one cent and past bull run up to 13 dollar. The current price is around 2 dollar and seems still a little bit high.
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 277
liife threw a tempest at you? be a coconut !
don't forget bitmessage  Wink
chan name pivx
chan addy : BM-2cVMeUcmJpeXLc9N1tD5NL4mZwqMMh1LKh
full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 100
The Standard Protocol - Solving Inflation
Hi all

Ive just been looking into PIVX and it seems like a pretty sound project, and investment opportunity, one thing is worrying me at the minute, and thats the price dropping, it seems a little cheap, is there a reason for this ?
Rick

completely honest answer, I bought more yesterday a bit higher price even, it doesnt matter , all is going backup up , BTC is being shorted (on purpose and premeditated) and thats the reason why alts retreat as well, mid to long term you are solid

Thanks for the reply  Grin  
I have manged to buy a few today, why not lol.  PIVX definitely does have potential.

It has a lot of potential but it is also up against strong other coins in the anon sphere. What they have achieved in a short period of time is remarkable though.

yes, but I also aint paying premium for others with similar mathematics (or approach) , might as well pay less at the bottom rock prices to achieve the same

I wouldn't consider it a premium as you said. The networks are also larger and have more users already. That's why the coins are worth more.

Often when I see debates about the best anon coins it is often said that it is XMR and Zcash. I think PIVX also has a chance, but it's hard to back that up with scientific evidence as I am not a pro.

no Sir aint paying 200 + usd or so for em (but one of a better tries of solicitation I have seen, nice try!), waaay too expensive for the risks given, the financial hammer was especially heavy there and risks remain for more, risks are much smaller here due to rock bottom prices and mathematics is sound that backs it all up as in technology

Nice try? LOL I haven't tried anything. You can feel free and do whatever you want. Nothing to do with trying to talk you into something when expressing my thoughts. Don't wanna offend you, but you are not important enough to me to spend time on talking you into something Wink
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 277
liife threw a tempest at you? be a coconut !
Just a little word saying that I didn't realized the incredible amount of work that the marketing team did. It is just mind blowing by it's quality and quantity. To all the noobs posing stupid questions here or on discord, shame on you, you can't even do a little research, because you would have found everything you need and more.

So thank you very much... I prefer to keep my discord alias bitichingfree...

and the PIVXpress series on youtube is great !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb3PkZCZeSs

thank you slappy to explain that expanding beyond this forum is a real strategic move.

but as I can refrain, why the surf girl doesn't wear the pivx tag on her board ? WTF !!! at least an address , in purple...

and don't forget to check the reddit, official forum, discord (of course) and the bitmessage for those who seek more privacy and reliability by full decentralization... (can always come handy).
sr. member
Activity: 359
Merit: 270
I have heard that their protocol has some inherent defects. It was told during zero protocol conferences this year.

Sure, as do all protocols. But assuming you're referring to the research published on April 12th of this year (https://www.chaac.tf.fau.eu/2018/04/12/zerocoinzcoinpivxzoinsmartcashhexxcoin-attack/), you may find the PIVX team's response, published on the very same day, enlightening:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pivx/comments/8bvf8r/how_todays_zerocoin_article_relates_to_pivx/
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