Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 470. (Read 1356149 times)

no doubt that when a coin is faced with a fundamental problem which could break it going forward the only option is to hard fork.
I think you are missing the point though..

because of the centralization of power it was all too easy to force this coin into a position where it was faced with such a dilema.
and it was all too easy for the devs to force change upon the community.

perhaps you are too busy arguing theoretical when you cannot even see the reality of the situation in front of you.




humans have space flight they *CAN* fly the moon and they *CAN* fly to the next solar system.

your missing the point that one is possible.. and the other is currently practically impossible.

The LTC dev's comment is the reason I dumped LTC this morning.  Felt great!  Try it, anyone else that has LTC.

no you are not right at all..

miners having 51% of the power to produce coins for very limited period of time is not the same thing as stake holders with 51% of the coins and the power to create 51% of all future coins for eternity.
this is why the vericoin devs had to take such drastic action when someone had a mere 30% of the coins.

also a pool having 51% of the hashing power is not the same thing as a single entity having that much power because miners would simply move if the power was being abused.

pos and pow have very different problems.

You know what's funny, if the fud were invested enough they could have swung the wallet the other way.

Damn...you beat me to it lol

If a disastrous event happened that effected miners and holders of Bitcoin and the only way to fix the problem was the Devs to hard fork....what do think would happen?

the best example are all the miners mining at ghash.io with 51+% am i right?
pos/pow have the same problems

But they *CAN* be rolled back. That's the point.

this simply is not true at all...

in a PoW coin you have to convince the miners to adopt the new fork.
If 51% of the miners do not agree then the fork simply does not happen.

due to its size and also its PoW implementation it would be virtually impossible for the bitcoin devs to do something like this with bitcoin without first gaining the consensus from mining community.

miners play a vital role in securing the network not only from outside attacks but from internal misuse of power. they are separate from stake holders with separate interests so they act as a counterbalance.

in a PoS coin there are no miners so there is no separation of powers.
in theory stake holders should play that vital role of making sure that power is not abused.
in practice however.. stake holders do what they are told or get locked out of the system.

this is not just a problem for PoS coins, it does affect all small growing coins, the PoS part merely amplifies problem because some crucial checks and balances are removed.

so I reiterate that it really isn't true at all so say that ANY coin can be rolled back. Some are many orders of magnitude more difficult to roll back than others.

one needs to also consider that rolling the blockchain back isn't just invalidating 1 or two transactions.. it is invalidation every transaction across the entire system that happened after the roll back point.
when people are using the network to buy and sell goods you simply cannot do such a thing without causing major financial damage to the people using the system.

in the case of a small alt coin where the majority of trading is happening off the block chain at exchanges and being done by speculators then there isn't such a big issue with rolling back.

I read in the "first press release from Voot coin" that IconicExpert -my supposed alter-ego for some nut cases- has issued and Yahoo financial published, that "VootCoin's NiteSend feature uses a multilayered protection process to help ensure untraceable, hidden, completely private transactions between parties who are not able to know each other's identities." And this brings to my memore the all kinds of vanilla-flavors anons that now plague every single crypto coin out there (including VRC, of course). But what makes me smile most is the part in which "...the parties (transacting) are not able to know each other's identities." This to me is like the gay (or not gay) baths on Melrose, in Hollywood, where people go, insert their dicks in a hole in a wall and someone on the other side sucks it until business is taken care of... Not a bad deal if you are into that kind of stuff but, for the life of me I cannot think of any transaction in which any normal person would want to be involved in which they would go to such extent to avoid knowing who are they buying from -and even selling to-. Not that I care much about who is selling what if the product or service is  known and highly regarded but, if they are, the people I have known all my life take great pains and considerable expense in making it known to everyone that those are indeed their products/services . Just the opposite seems to continue being all the rage in (some) cryptos.

Now I know that VRC, its community and its devs are not interested in transactions involving arms, terrorist services and slavery (sexual, organ or otherwise). So it would leave only porno stuff (and if you need crypto to pay for that you have problems that no amount of anon is going to solve) and drug cartel activities (where you may knot know the identity of the person you are buying the stuff from but you know its proceedings go ultimately to a cartel. I am quite sure that the devs pursuit of mainstream adoption would gladly leave both those sources of "interest" out too.

So quite glad that anon pursuit is NOT one of the priorities of VRC.

Sorry for the somewhat off-topic. Hopefully some would find it if not interesting, at least slightly humorous.

Trully, another way of thinking could benefit the greater good for all of crypto.

Appreciate this post. Very good thought.

To expand on a point I made earlier, I want to relay a story from history:

------
In World War II the allies relied heavily on bombing the enemy to try and turn the tide of the war. However they were losing a lot of planes from ground fire and air combat. When many of the planes returned, they were often shot up so badly it was a wonder they could fly at all.

"We need to reinforce these planes with armour" said the leaders in charge. But the engineers had a problem "If we put too much armour on them, then the planes will be either too heavy to fly or burn too much fuel to be able to make the trip".

A mathematician named Wald was asked to catalogue where all the bullet holes had torn through the plane. He produced a diagram that reflected something similar to this:

http://www.nww2m.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/plane-damage.jpg

The plane on the left represented the undamaged plane, and the plane on the right was where the damaged was being recorded. The superiors said "ah, we need to reinforce the wings, nose and tail because this is where the damage is occurring".

Wald said "I'd reinforce the areas where there are no bullet holes".

"What?" they said incredulously. "But that's where all the damage is!"

"But Sir" said Wald "these are the planes that made it back"

As the obviousness of Wald's observation sunk in, the engineers began the task of reinforcing the remaining planes
------

If cryptocoins are going to win the war and become a viable currency, we have to stop focussing on the holes and start seeing the areas that truly need to be reinforced.

My windows wallet was stuck syncing when I woke up. I backed up wallet.dat (just in case) and restarted wallet. It synced fine when it started. Staking resumed.

My new wallet shows my coin balance and history but is not synching.. On mac I went to Library/Application Support - and there is no Vericoin folder in there where I can keep the necessary wallet file. Even the old wallet never made it into the application support folder. In Mac Finder - Vericoin Wallet was (and still is) just an item i could eject like a memory stick. So now it has been synching a good 12 hours and nothing. Again, coins are showing but they are not staking and wallet is not synching.

Please Help

PEOPLE DIDN'T REALIZE THAT ROLLBACK SAVED THEIR ASSES  = 1.45 MILLION EUROS WILL PUT ANY HUGE EXCHANGER DOWN !!!

1) So mintpal down means  all mintpal's crypto gone : 45% zs , 38% min , 75%mint , 78% tor , 29 % MYR ,  btc , ltc, cloack,rzr,pinkcoin, BOOBSCOIN, Peepeecoin ,psychocoin  ....etc

>>> Results = 90 % of mintpal's investors broken

>>>> creating panic sells on other exchanges (remember gox effects & btc price after what happened : from 1000 usd to 299 $ = HUGE PANIC )

2) Other exchanges will go down also = because they have transfers between them

>>> More investors ruined = MORE PANIC

>>>> Due to panic selling = some currencies will die ..........

>>>> Double PANIC >>> It will attract medias attention >>>> Triple PANIC

>>>> More investors ruined >>> more selling

 .
3) = it will be like subprim crisis with banks

 = pyramid = 90 %  exchanges will close . if you where at mintpal with all your life savings  holding in MINTPAL  and no rollback = you will be crying right now


Imagine if US FEDERAL RESERVE was hacked by 30% of all USD dollar in circulation

 = 3000 (3 THOUSANDS) BILLION DOLLARS (http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm)

= Dollar will be a monkey currency , you will buy your goods with Bananas, what US government will do in that case ? = think about it !

So thanks for your topic , that's why = I WILL NEVER BUY LITECOIN = LITECOIN IS DEAD

Ps : Not negociating with terrorists ? ahahahaha ,you are right kid = let the hostages die !! its better don't try to bring them back  (or to roll them back = let them die = the world will be better without hostages alive

If you have courage = do not delete my post .

i don't need an hypocrit answer . so please don't answer me = i will not read it .

Trying to promote your dead coin like this ? = its pathetic .

Regards

Until it's technically impossible to rollback the chain, this "problem" will continue. The argument of "I don't like what the VeriCoin devs did, I'm going to buy coin instead" doesn't hold because all other cryptocoins can be rolled back as well. Just because the devs say they won't doesn't mean they can't!

So bravo VeriCoin devs! You did a good thing, and although people are upset you violated some sort of imaginary moral law, the problem that has always been there is now front and centre.

If you don't like it, show me the code to fix the problem.

This is precisely what we'll see: The free market will react to the actions and will declare the winners and the loosers. We'll see this happening in the coming days.

Now, if there's a single thing that made me invest in Vericoin, that thing was the perceived quality of the development team. We might be hammered to some degree by the market but I'm very happy to see how the development team reacted and fully confident of the future of the coin.

All right then, will leave now to sell my LTC. 

See you soon VeriFriends.

I have more faith in crypto than ever after this. I understand the idealists point of view. But thievery is something we have to be able to address in a more constructive way than letting them get away with it. Especially if its within reason, the technology allows it, and in the end, the most important THE COMMUNITY VOTES TO ACCEPT THE CHANGE.

A lot of the action in altcoin seems fear based.

The devs acted without fear of public crticism. They are also the devs not scared to show their faces.

I say they have the balls to get the job done whatever comes their way.

Yeah, and I will sell my remaining litecoins as soon as possible.

Thanks Litecoin-DEVs, you just screwed it up.