I've just caught up with the forum threads and not sure that an average person/investor would have the time to go through all the arguments of the hard fork posted here.
If in any case, they would be reading up the official statements from the Vericoin Developers here:
http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf
And the official statements from the Mintpal Exchange here:
https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17
What an average person would probably pick up from this would be:
1. Mintpal's security has been breached and hacked, hence less trust & extra caution to use them in the future
2. Vericoin's developers have stepped up to help protect the coin as well as it's community and investors
3. Rules are made to be broken, and it's up to whether you would prefer Batman (one who breaks rules and steps up to do the right thing) or the Cold Ruthless Law that states that there is nothing that can be done against a theft as it is against all principles of how a crypto should be.
Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules
Just my sharing.
Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 549. (Read 1356163 times)
July 13, 2014, 11:02:52 PM
July 13, 2014, 11:02:44 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this gets the attention of mainstream media, possibly giving positive attention to cryptos in general.
July 13, 2014, 11:00:54 PM
Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.
Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.
Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)
If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?
p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.
Not a single developer will accept to face jail for not attending a legal order. Just face the truth.
The whole world now knows for sure that it is technically possible for EVERY SINGLE CRYPTOCURRENCY, including BTC.
So, crypto will be better served by getting the right PR spin on this story. Simple as that.
Really?
Will Bitcoin do this? I highly doubt, because its destiny is not controlled by two or three persons (and from the same country), and that is why Bitcoin can hold its value.
Is the Bitcoin sold recently by government got by hard fork and rolling back? No.
think about answers to my questions and then answer me
July 13, 2014, 10:59:01 PM
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2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move
That's a bullshit definition of a community decision. It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team. The other exchanges had little choice but to follow. The community had zero choice.
This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.
Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?
LOl, just LOL... you can't make up your lack of understanding...
July 13, 2014, 10:58:56 PM
If you think about it, doesn't a coin that protects its community sound good to you?
Over bitcoin which was so disorganized it had to let the large thefts happen? Something to think about, I trust VRC
Maybe this has a positive outcome and the media picks this up?
It would be sick if this was a good thing and not a bad thing in the end as it will surely be publicized in every crypto magazine and news article?
Something to think about. Barring a horrible outcome to this wallet fix and rollback. Could the media push and outcome cause more demand? I really think so. I have faith enough smart people are out there it won't be dumped for a issue specific to an exchange. not a individual coin, VeriCoin just happens to be the target of the attack. You only attack a good coin where you can get your money out because it has a strong demand to soak up supply. This is why BTC / LTC / VRC may have been the targets on Mintpal.
Over bitcoin which was so disorganized it had to let the large thefts happen? Something to think about, I trust VRC
Maybe this has a positive outcome and the media picks this up?
It would be sick if this was a good thing and not a bad thing in the end as it will surely be publicized in every crypto magazine and news article?
Something to think about. Barring a horrible outcome to this wallet fix and rollback. Could the media push and outcome cause more demand? I really think so. I have faith enough smart people are out there it won't be dumped for a issue specific to an exchange. not a individual coin, VeriCoin just happens to be the target of the attack. You only attack a good coin where you can get your money out because it has a strong demand to soak up supply. This is why BTC / LTC / VRC may have been the targets on Mintpal.
I've thought about it...so what happens when the next big hack or scam concerning VRC happens?
Roll back? Double standard and not roll back?
July 13, 2014, 10:58:03 PM
Quote
2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move
That's a bullshit definition of a community decision. It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team. The other exchanges had little choice but to follow. The community had zero choice.
This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.
Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?
Um, you don't mine this coin. lol
He is just talking to talk, I dont even think he knows what a VeriCoin is, he is just mad as hell though!
July 13, 2014, 10:57:29 PM
Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............
Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.
What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".
I don't think this guy can stop, hes gone mad.
Yep, looks like he has so much to loose, does it not?
July 13, 2014, 10:57:21 PM
Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal. Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses. No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure. This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal. Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.
This.
If this rollback is done to cover MintPal's fuck up, the devs lose all credibility and are simply paid code monkeys for the exchanges.
Is that really what the community wants from a coin that had so much potential?
This is make or break time. The decisions made now will either cement VRC as a solid force in crypto or doom it to a slow and painful death.
Couldn't agree with you more. This decision has so many implications for miners, exchanges, both past and present. Miners on the wrong chain or users who recieved VRC in the time frame from the hack will lose their coins due to the "roll back" or what I call the "bail out" from the VRC devs.
July 13, 2014, 10:57:13 PM
Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............
Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.
What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".
You post as if you are directly affected by those8 million stolen coins being returned to the rightful owners.
You have nothing to stand on. VRC made a decision you don't like? Great move on. Like any good stalker you can't you are infatuated with what you perceive as something you must posses.
Am I wrong? Again, VRC is garbage and has nothing going for it? Move on nobody wants you here and you don;t want to be here. Everyone who just had their funds saved and a dev that stuck around instead of just disappearing and making another coin will fill your spot.
July 13, 2014, 10:57:00 PM
And the BTC fork for that 184 million exploited coins was for development? Yes I know you previously try to explain how that wasn't the same. Facts are, someone illicitly grabbed a bunch of coins, and the community reacted to negate it. No two scenarios are the same and must be resolved differently.
Nobody grabbed illicit coins... someone exploited a flaw to generate more coins then they should while mining a block. It was a protocol level flaw in bitcoin that was fixed. Yes, that was a development mistake, and a hardfork was necessary (the fix made the new blockchain incompatible with the old blockchain, and that 184million coin block was orphaned as a result). The VRC action is totally different. VRC IS NOT SUGGESTING A HARDFORK - the devs aren't fixing anything. They are acting for benefit of an exchange and third party to the protocol.Rolling-back a blockchain is unbelievably contrary to a decentralized ledger. That, is the key.
Quote
A bookkeeper who "fudges" the books, has no place being trusted to keep the public ledger. Pressure is moot.
exploited, hacked, stole, pickpocketed. Spin it how you like, someone came into possession of a bunch of widgets that weren't theirs. Then the community reacted to protect itself from the criminals.
Crypto being in its infancy, decentralization is currently only a dream. Many more people are needed to spread out from the "center". We have not developed enough, for the purist sense of decentralization.
If you think about it, this is an awesome capability. To be able to nullify a crime of this magnitude, saving people millions. The mtgox, that wasn't.
To those screaming "they could just roll back my transaction if they don't like me" wow really? To bring the whole thing to a complete stop like this would only be to protect the coin and community. Its not like the dev just pops in reloads the file and is on his way with just your coins. Many "decentralized" people have to agree to cooperate to accomplish something on this scale. So unless you snaked enough coins or hashes to 51% a coin, you probably have no worries.
How about the idea of a multistage "Emergency Stop" button. Like the emergency shut down on the Stock Exchanges? Starting from Pools or Exchanges when something suspicious occurs. Quarantines local activity and sends alarms to the devs, other Exchanges, and Pools.
just a thought.
Beyond the stupidity of keeping the 8 mil in the hot wallet. Kudos to MintPal stepping up immediately and facing this.
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.
July 13, 2014, 10:56:32 PM
It's not about bailing out mintpal you thick fucks, it's about protecting VRC from an 8 million coin dump... and you want to talk about mining? It's multipool only, they have it under control, do some fucking research. I here by declare to accept all FUD on behalf of VRC and reply to anybody with a big FUCK YOU!
July 13, 2014, 10:56:19 PM
Quote
2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move
That's a bullshit definition of a community decision. It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team. The other exchanges had little choice but to follow. The community had zero choice.
This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.
Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?
Um, you don't mine this coin. lol
July 13, 2014, 10:55:14 PM
Quote
2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move
That's a bullshit definition of a community decision. It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team. The other exchanges had little choice but to follow. The community had zero choice.
This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.
Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?
July 13, 2014, 10:55:06 PM
Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............
Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.
What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".
Mining occurs in 1 pool as this is POS, if you looked at this coin for more than 5 mins before you decided to attack it you would know this. Its not a POW coin buddy
July 13, 2014, 10:54:26 PM
Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............
Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.
What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".
I don't think this guy can stop, hes gone mad.
July 13, 2014, 10:52:44 PM
Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............
Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.
What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".
July 13, 2014, 10:52:38 PM
I will just say it, anyone who thinks @mintpal should cover 3039 btc and let some group of elitist have 8 million VRC to dump and crash the coin is an idiot this is the best alt coin ever made and the only potential 2nd to this alt is vertcoin, gj vrc dev I am proud you kept the value of my VRC alive.
--Minaphure, Respect.
--Minaphure, Respect.
July 13, 2014, 10:52:29 PM
We get it, its not for you, move on. Is this the new precedent? We picked up every hardcore NERD thats mad vericoin used the technology to prevent theft, and no other coin took the responsibility to break the mold? GREAT!
you didn't prevent it. you just caused a chargeback. and you won't be able to prevent it in the future
now it has been stated that this chargeback won't ever happen again. let's see what happens when the next theft rolls over you. it can happen, or do you wanna tell me there's 100% security
July 13, 2014, 10:51:22 PM
% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.
VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"
Utter BS.
the hack wasn't the devs problem but the fact that thieves controlled 30% of the coin supply became the devs problem.
what if the thieves do not dump but simply stake their coins.
nobody would invest in a currency that is 30% controlled by thieves knowing that potentially 30% of all new coins for eternity could be going back to the thieves pockets.
I believe this is the dilemma faced by the dev team and why they took action.
they didn't do it to save Mintpal they did it to save vericoin.
stolen money that can generate clean money which can then be spent easily without raising an eyebrow.. this is the very definition of money laundering.
rolling back the block chain is fundamentally wrong but it is the lesser of two evils for this particular situation.
July 13, 2014, 10:51:10 PM
The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.
With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.
We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.
We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.
Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.
With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.
We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.
We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.
Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.
This is BULLSHIT.
Now future scams and hacks involving VRC don't get the same treatment? Double standard much? Hypocrite?
Now your trust has gone out the window.
Another crypto stalker infatuated with vrc that thinks it has nothing going for it. Move on.. your constant posting clearly shows how desperate you are to buy cheap, although of course you will deny it. Your actions betray your motives. Again vrc dead? Vrc didn't make the right decisions? Move on, nobody will miss your rant.
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