[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 550.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 01:04:15 PM

I think some information is missing in the discussion:
1) As stated by MP, VARIOUS exchanges have halted trading with VRC. The robbed coins can't be traded at this time
2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move
3) The problem was related to the withdrawal door at MP and there was a single transaction moving the 8M coins. This means that the coins were transferred to a single wallet and can be perfectly and easily followed up
4) The hardfork that will be created by devs will most likely isolate that single transaction and all the transaction subtree that followed. But it will probably leave intact all other transactions, whether they happened before of after the theft
5) The exchanges will reimburse people who lost money transacting with the thieves (if there was any transaction at all)
6) As a result, the whole community will be secured and the single transaction that will suffer is the one where the coins are stolen
I believe VRC is going stronger after this.

So what happens in the future when say another person gets hacked big time for a ton of VRC or another exchange hack comes around?

Double standard I presume will be in effect from the VRC devs.

I disagree. VRC will take a huge hit in terms of trust.

buy4crypto

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Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 10:46:55 PM

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: phzi on July 13, 2014, 12:52:05 PM

MintPal fucked up... it's not the VRC community's responsibility to fix this. MintPal needs to cover the lost coins out of their own pocket - PERIOD.

If the VRC devs try to push a roll back, this coin is worse then dead in the water. Obviously, if a rollback like this is possible, the blockchain cannot be relied upon as a fixed ledger, and therefore the coin is useless.

I'm willing to bet some of you are the same person, so I'll pose this question to more than one of you since I doubt none of you will give an appropriate answer:

So you think a guaranteed ongoing 51% attack or an insta-dump is a better alternative?

Please explain why.

The way the free market works is that failed businesses go out of business...not get bail outs or roll backs. That is why.

We get it, its not for you, move on. Is this the new precedent? We picked up every hardcore NERD thats mad vericoin used the technology to prevent theft, and no other coin took the responsibility to break the mold? GREAT!

ofp

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Quote from: nvminer on July 13, 2014, 10:42:49 PM

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 10:29:45 PM

Quote from: nvminer on July 13, 2014, 10:09:13 PM

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.

Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)

If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?

p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.

Not a single developer will accept to face jail for not attending a legal order. Just face the truth.
The whole world now knows for sure that it is technically possible for EVERY SINGLE CRYPTOCURRENCY, including BTC.
So, crypto will be better served by getting the right PR spin on this story. Simple as that.

smoothie

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Quote from: Soul_eater_123 on July 13, 2014, 01:03:13 PM

Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal. Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses. No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure. This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal. Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.

+1 here. Time will tell but I agree with this.

bitrap

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Devs, are you going to pre-announce when the new wallet will be released?

InvestorPerson

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Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 10:46:55 PM

The way the free market works is that failed businesses go out of business...not get bail outs or roll backs. That is why.

chargebacks. let's stick to the right terminology Cheesy

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: XbladeX on July 13, 2014, 12:54:28 PM

Quote from: cryptodevil on July 13, 2014, 12:46:40 PM

Quote from: XbladeX on July 13, 2014, 12:40:18 PM

Try do the same with decentralized BTC...
Check-and-mate, ignoramus.

BTC has hard forked previously. You, sir, are merely insistent on baring your ignorance to the world.

BTC fork didn't roll back transactions this is difference...
Anyway here is hard decision to make and no winners at the and because of fail coin build mostly.
Don't get me wrong all types of coins have their problems.

The BTC hard forks did not involve rolling back anything due to a hack on an exchange. That should be made perfectly clear.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: phzi on July 13, 2014, 12:52:05 PM

MintPal fucked up... it's not the VRC community's responsibility to fix this. MintPal needs to cover the lost coins out of their own pocket - PERIOD.

If the VRC devs try to push a roll back, this coin is worse then dead in the water. Obviously, if a rollback like this is possible, the blockchain cannot be relied upon as a fixed ledger, and therefore the coin is useless.

I'm willing to bet some of you are the same person, so I'll pose this question to more than one of you since I doubt none of you will give an appropriate answer:

So you think a guaranteed ongoing 51% attack or an insta-dump is a better alternative?

Please explain why.

The way the free market works is that failed businesses go out of business...not get bail outs or roll backs. That is why.

Celani10

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Activity: 173

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Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 10:40:54 PM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 12:16:38 PM

Simple mp f'd up. The hot wallet had too many vrc in it.

Claiming the devs should not help the community by bailing out mp is a very questionable statement.

Almost as if you were one of the people on the receiving end of a successful attack? hmm...

VRC will come out of this a lot stronger and in the spotlight imo. Complete backfire by the hackers. Pretty funny.

My prediction: VRC and its devs' trust will be tarnished for a very long time.

So you are here just to open people eyes?
You are losing your time to help us?

hahahahahahaha

Fuck off dude, you want cheap VRC

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: phzi on July 13, 2014, 12:52:05 PM

MintPal fucked up... it's not the VRC community's responsibility to fix this. MintPal needs to cover the lost coins out of their own pocket - PERIOD.

If the VRC devs try to push a roll back, this coin is worse then dead in the water. Obviously, if a rollback like this is possible, the blockchain cannot be relied upon as a fixed ledger, and therefore the coin is useless.

There were so many hacks with LTC and BTC exchanges yet never once did those developers resort to such actions. This shows the true colors of the VRC devs.

Whatzhub

newbie

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I've just caught up with the forum threads and not sure that an average person/investor would have the time to go through all the arguments of the hard fork posted here.

If in any case, they would be reading up the official statements from the Vericoin Developers here:
http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf

And the official statements from the Mintpal Exchange here:
https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

What an average person would probably pick up from this would be:
1. Mintpal's security has been breached and hacked, hence less trust & extra caution to use them in the future
2. Vericoin's developers have stepped up to help protect the coin as well as it's community and investors
3. Rules are made to be broken, and it's up to whether you would prefer Batman (one who breaks rules and steps up to do the right thing) or the Cold Ruthless Law that states that there is nothing that can be done against a theft as it is against all principles of how a crypto should be.

Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules

Just my sharing.

buy4crypto

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Quote from: nvminer on July 13, 2014, 10:42:49 PM

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 10:29:45 PM

Quote from: nvminer on July 13, 2014, 10:09:13 PM

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.

Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)

If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?

p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.

The difference is a mass audience ready to invest in something that breaks away from the current crypto mold of fraud and theft. They are waiting for a coin like VeriCoin that prevents theft using the technology, rather than being held hostage by the minority of purists.

InvestorPerson

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Quote from: buy4crypto on July 13, 2014, 10:41:13 PM

Cool, thanks for your opinion, gnite

m'lady, it was an honour

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: XbladeX on July 13, 2014, 12:40:18 PM

Quote from: cryptodevil on July 13, 2014, 12:13:53 PM

Quote from: XbladeX on July 13, 2014, 12:06:12 PM

Because one guy can rollback coin... this is evidence

You need to learn a little more of the concept of what a hard fork is. If 'one guy' attempted a hard fork and the rest of the coin's community did not accept it, do you know what happens? Nothing. No fork takes place.
We have been told why a fork needs to occur, but it requires the majority to accept it. So, no, it is not 'one guy' performing a hard fork, it is the community.
Decentralised.
Check-and-mate, ignoramus.

"
1) We lost a considerable amount of VeriCoin in the attack, however we have been working with the VRC developers and all major exchanges to hard fork the coin at a position before the attack. " = rollback in short ( https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17 )

Have little guys decided about that hard fork or you got solution and have to accept it ?
NO. Devs and exchanges comes out with ultimate solution to save their business mostly.
Answers is no - those hard decision was taken by developer and exchange owners...
You can only accept it or no...
Try do the same with decentralized BTC...
Check-and-mate, ignoramus.

I know yeah? Why wasn't there a poll that the devs created to see community consensus first?

Their actions speak louder than anything they say.

nvminer

newbie

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Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 10:29:45 PM

Quote from: nvminer on July 13, 2014, 10:09:13 PM

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.

Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)

If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?

p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.

prometheianz

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Merit: 10

VRC sacrificed to preserve Mintpal profits.. sad.

buy4crypto

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Quote from: InvestorPerson on July 13, 2014, 10:40:46 PM

Quote from: tigerwood0432 on July 13, 2014, 10:31:59 PM

BLA BLA BLA BLA , DID BLACKCOIN DEVS ASKED YOU WHEN THEY FORKED AND BC PRICES COLLAPSES ? , BC WILL TAKE YEARS TO GO UP AGAIN

damn you must be a hardcore optimist. BC won't see 20k for the rest of the year. if it survives that long

Quote from: tigerwood0432 on July 13, 2014, 10:37:08 PM

Ok so now , what coin do you want to promote ? what coin do you want us to invest in ?= please go straight to the point and stop your song

just rebrand vericoin to paypalcoin Grin

Cool, thanks for your opinion, gnite

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 12:16:38 PM

Simple mp f'd up. The hot wallet had too many vrc in it.

Claiming the devs should not help the community by bailing out mp is a very questionable statement.

Almost as if you were one of the people on the receiving end of a successful attack? hmm...

VRC will come out of this a lot stronger and in the spotlight imo. Complete backfire by the hackers. Pretty funny.

My prediction: VRC and its devs' trust will be tarnished for a very long time.

InvestorPerson

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Activity: 316

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Quote from: tigerwood0432 on July 13, 2014, 10:31:59 PM

BLA BLA BLA BLA , DID BLACKCOIN DEVS ASKED YOU WHEN THEY FORKED AND BC PRICES COLLAPSES ? , BC WILL TAKE YEARS TO GO UP AGAIN

damn you must be a hardcore optimist. BC won't see 20k for the rest of the year. if it survives that long

Quote from: tigerwood0432 on July 13, 2014, 10:37:08 PM

Ok so now , what coin do you want to promote ? what coin do you want us to invest in ?= please go straight to the point and stop your song

just rebrand vericoin to paypalcoin Grin

buy4crypto

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Activity: 434

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freecrypto.top

So this is what 2 million dollars worth of FUD looks like Grin

I am enjoying this you guys, Look at how mad those dudes are that its happening, they are watching 2 million be "STOLE" right back from em!

Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 550. (Read 1356163 times)