Not everyone has to know how to code, or be a super nerd to invest in crypto.
VeriCoin is breaking the mold, and will succeed as long as the community stays strong in the face of the enemies trying to bring it down.
Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 563. (Read 1356163 times)
July 13, 2014, 06:12:54 PM
July 13, 2014, 06:12:18 PM
It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.
If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.
Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.
Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.
Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.
You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack. Are you thick? There is no choice
There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.
Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.
Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.
Choice 2.....
So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?
Am I missing something? You make no sense
I'm definitely not ok with rollback.
That way you just protect a broken system.
Mintpal, who is partially at fault here, suffers none.
People who trust centralized systems don't learn not to.
In fork:
hacker does not get coins and the fear of 51% attack goes away.
Mintpal and daytraders lose lots of money.
People learn once again not to trust exchanges.
Maybe one day this will sink in and we will have peer to peer trading.
Either way there is meddling by dev and central bodies which is against the underlying principles.
Look at VRC team vision, they are trying to be a payment portal more than a crypto. They want to bring blockchain technology to everyone. VeriCoin is trying to go mainstream and bring in more people to the complete eco-system.
VeriCoin should be championed by the ENTIRE crypto community as its the first crypto willing to break the stigma bitcoin has laid out.
This has been my point for weeks, bitcoin has a super nerd stigma, and paranoid banker stigma, VeriCoin is going after normal people who wish to know that the developers prefer to prevent theft, rather than screw them over to make a couple hardcore crypto purists happy.
July 13, 2014, 06:10:52 PM
Everyone do yourself a favor and thing long and hard about this...
The value of any currency, be it fiat or crypto, is not in the currency itself but the value placed upon those that back it. Be it a government, or developers, or a community that uses and accepts it, the currency is worth no more than the faith that those who use it place in that which stands behind it.
I choose to invest in and hold Vericoin not because it is worth 31k Satoshi each. I do not choose to hold Vericoin because it is high profile and has a good likelihood of getting pumped. I choose to hold Vericoin because it is backed by developers that have a vision for the coin, the skills to make it happen, and a track record of success in things they put their hands to.
The events of today have only reaffirmed that Vericoin is backed by people who will step up, when so many others would have simply slunk away.
"Bitcoin is dead, Litecoin is dead, Blackcoin is dead, Dogecoin is dead, Vericoin is dead..." The list goes on and on and you screaming fucktards have yet to once be right. This song and dance is getting old, lets change the beat.
The value of any currency, be it fiat or crypto, is not in the currency itself but the value placed upon those that back it. Be it a government, or developers, or a community that uses and accepts it, the currency is worth no more than the faith that those who use it place in that which stands behind it.
I choose to invest in and hold Vericoin not because it is worth 31k Satoshi each. I do not choose to hold Vericoin because it is high profile and has a good likelihood of getting pumped. I choose to hold Vericoin because it is backed by developers that have a vision for the coin, the skills to make it happen, and a track record of success in things they put their hands to.
The events of today have only reaffirmed that Vericoin is backed by people who will step up, when so many others would have simply slunk away.
"Bitcoin is dead, Litecoin is dead, Blackcoin is dead, Dogecoin is dead, Vericoin is dead..." The list goes on and on and you screaming fucktards have yet to once be right. This song and dance is getting old, lets change the beat.
July 13, 2014, 06:08:58 PM
Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
You are right all medias worldwide will talk about vrc ,television , radios , newspapers , business magazines , ......etc . bringing new vrc investors . VRC PRICE WILL GO TO VERY HIGH LEVELS (may be it will be more expensive than LTC right now) . Whales will buy huge vrc amounts from noobs dump . >> then PRICE will explode
I heard how bad Gox was, and I heard it a lot. Why would it be wrong to think VeriCoin comes through this stronger than ever? They are doing it RIGHT. these people saying let the theives have the money need to wake up and have there btc gone, I bet you those same people sign a different tune. As for me, not 1 coin comprimised, but I am happy the community sticks together to fight for the 30% who lost it, even if it effects the 70% in a negative way.
Thats what VeriCoin does, we stick together.
July 13, 2014, 06:08:30 PM
Patrick Nosker @pnosker 10m
New #VeriCoin Fork Formed Successfully! Mandatory wallet update to come shortly. #VRC
New #VeriCoin Fork Formed Successfully! Mandatory wallet update to come shortly. #VRC
July 13, 2014, 06:06:50 PM
It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.
If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.
Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.
Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.
Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.
You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack. Are you thick? There is no choice
There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.
Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.
Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.
Choice 2.....
So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?
Am I missing something? You make no sense
I'm definitely not ok with rollback.
That way you just protect a broken system.
Mintpal, who is partially at fault here, suffers none.
People who trust centralized systems don't learn not to.
It will set a ridiculous precedent.
Maybe we should also immediately start forming the senate that decides what theft is big enough to warrant a rollback and who it will benefit?
In fork:
hacker does not get coins and the fear of 51% attack goes away.
Mintpal and daytraders lose lots of money.
People learn once again not to trust exchanges.
Maybe one day this will sink in and we will have peer to peer trading.
Either way there is meddling by dev and central bodies which is against the underlying principles.
July 13, 2014, 06:06:32 PM
Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
You are right all medias worldwide will talk about vrc ,television , radios , newspapers , business magazines , ......etc . bringing new vrc investors . VRC PRICE WILL GO TO VERY HIGH LEVELS (may be it will be more expensive than LTC right now) . Whales will buy huge vrc amounts from noobs dump . >> then PRICE will explode
July 13, 2014, 06:05:51 PM
Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
I think this makes sense, too. I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
July 13, 2014, 06:02:34 PM
It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.
If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.
Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.
Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.
Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.
You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack. Are you thick? There is no choice
There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.
Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.
Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.
Choice 2.....
So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?
Am I missing something?
July 13, 2014, 06:00:11 PM
Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!
to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.
And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.
For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.
July 13, 2014, 05:58:09 PM
MintPal fucked up... it's not the VRC community's responsibility to fix this. MintPal needs to cover the lost coins out of their own pocket - PERIOD.
If the VRC devs try to push a roll back, this coin is worse then dead in the water. Obviously, if a rollback like this is possible, the blockchain cannot be relied upon as a fixed ledger, and therefore the coin is useless.
If the VRC devs try to push a roll back, this coin is worse then dead in the water. Obviously, if a rollback like this is possible, the blockchain cannot be relied upon as a fixed ledger, and therefore the coin is useless.
Does this mean that VRC is not fungable because they regard the stolen coins as bad or tainted?
I do believe the fork is good for the "stock price" of the coin, due to the imminent probability of 8 million coins being dumped at any given time.
July 13, 2014, 05:57:13 PM
It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.
If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.
Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.
Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.
Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.
You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack. Are you thick? There is no choice
There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.
Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.
Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.
July 13, 2014, 05:55:27 PM
So Bitcoin is broken a hundred times, you should sell them all.
By the way, the exchange system is decentralized. You seem to have a different definition of central and decentral as everyone else here has.
And you are legitimizing theft, as all hardcore anarchists do. Theft is a crime which cannot be allowed in a civil society.
Centralized = Mintpal in this scenario. A central agency, a single point of failure trusted with a large amount of coin.
Decentralized = peer to peer trading.
Simple.
By trying to erase the theft you are protecting the system that makes thieving like this possible.
Is this the long term solution? Everytime there is a theft roll it back?
How many roll backs? Who decides? How the hell do we ever use this for a currency if thats gonna be the case?
If you roll back you make this happening again way more likely.
You make it inevitable. Making the next rollback inevitable.
By not rolling back you force to find another solution. This way we move forward. Not backward.
Exactly what happened with all these bitcoin thefts, right?
The opposite is true, you don´t discourage fraudsters by a laissez-faire approach.
And again: hardfork does not mean moving backwards, in fact it means moving forward. It is an ability of the technology and it is right to use this ability to discourage theft.
July 13, 2014, 05:55:09 PM
It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.
If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.
Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.
Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.
Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.
You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack. Are you thick? There is no choice
Its not that it would, under the right circumstances its feasable.
Is it likely no?
But its very nice for a conspirary theorist to play on.
July 13, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
This is definitely an interesting debate, is it worth doing a hard fork or not? Furthermore, what If I dump my coins right now or sell them? Then if we hard fork, are you going to hard fork those 8 million coins out of the said address and into the hands of mintpal? Furthermore, what prevents the person with 8mil coins from mixing and selling them at other exchanges?
I am very interested in seeing how this plays out.
Also having that many coins in a PoS system.. isnt that just asking for 51% attacks?
I am very interested in seeing how this plays out.
Also having that many coins in a PoS system.. isnt that just asking for 51% attacks?
July 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
...
Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?
...
Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?
...
Pos 2.0 rat4 (Blackcoin core dev) developed system to rappel such attacks or make it REALY hard to do...
But whole his idea was marginalized by VRC community as unnecessary because you don't need it...
http://www.blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdf
A. Coin Age
In the PeerCoin protocol block generation is based on coin
age which is a factor that increases the weight of unspent coins
linearly over time; the proof that has to be provided together
with a new block and has to satisfy the following condition:
proofhash < coins · age
....
In short BC dev did:
CHANGES IN THE PROTOCOL
-A. Taking the Coin Age out of the equation.
-B. Changing the Stake Modifier
-C. Block Timestamp Rules
this took him months of work and few thousands lines of code
to solve your attack problems like you can suffer now
if you will read whitepaper correctly you will find solution how prevent 30%
of coins ruling whole POS network that is why he called it POS 2.0 ...
it soved in simply way one of POS problems
July 13, 2014, 05:51:56 PM
So Bitcoin is broken a hundred times, you should sell them all.
By the way, the exchange system is decentralized. You seem to have a different definition of central and decentral as everyone else here has.
And you are legitimizing theft, as all hardcore anarchists do. Theft is a crime which cannot be allowed in a civil society.
Centralized = Mintpal in this scenario. A central agency, a single point of failure trusted with a large amount of coin.
Decentralized = peer to peer trading.
Simple.
By trying to erase the theft you are protecting the system that makes thieving like this possible.
Is this the long term solution? Everytime there is a theft roll it back?
How many roll backs? Who decides? How the hell do we ever use this for a currency if thats gonna be the case?
If you roll back you make this happening again way more likely.
You make it inevitable. Making the next rollback inevitable.
By not rolling back you force to find another solution. This way we move forward. Not backward.
Interesting question.
But I'm not sure it's clear that VRC is "saving" mintpal, anyways. It may fail, regardless and VRC will move on protecting its investors from the thieves and doesn't have to be behind mintpal. It's my understanding that VRC appears to be only working with mintpal to recover the coins... not try and engineer their bail-out.
Thoughts?
July 13, 2014, 05:50:39 PM
This a call to action for decentralized exchanges being the rule not the exception! - Douglas Pike (@effectsToCause, VeriCoin Co-Creator/Developer)
https://twitter.com/effectsToCause/status/488379402133450752
July 13, 2014, 05:50:34 PM
They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.
Send me an email, [email protected]. You will need to reclone/compile.
All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.
You do not like it, when the thieve robs an empty bag?
The thieves are here among us. I can feel it. They are not happy to steal 2 million USD and then have the developers take that back. Someone, or some team out there went from scamming 2 million dollars, to having nothing but more anger towards the community for taking back its OWN money.
Haters out there are criminals for most part, and tech purists.
You would think a true community worried about advancing technology would support VeriCoin and its descision to help get it right, instead they (especially blackcoin people) keep using this as a promotion oppertunity for themselves. Think about it... Why VeriCoin?
July 13, 2014, 05:49:54 PM
All these experts are now coming out giving their opinions. 
I bet they do not own 1 damm coin.
What would you like to happen? Do nothing and let some Thief own a major chunk and get away with millions which as result will tank the coin. (considering the amount of Fud this coin has been getting, i am sure that is the underlying plan) - Honestly Tell that to the people who lost their money
The dev team stepped up, and surely will get my support once the market opens up
Mintpal should ideally do the same.
Do not rejoice in the suffering of others
I bet they do not own 1 damm coin.What would you like to happen? Do nothing and let some Thief own a major chunk and get away with millions which as result will tank the coin. (considering the amount of Fud this coin has been getting, i am sure that is the underlying plan) - Honestly Tell that to the people who lost their money
The dev team stepped up, and surely will get my support once the market opens up
Mintpal should ideally do the same.
Do not rejoice in the suffering of others
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