[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 565.

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: pnosker on July 13, 2014, 05:20:14 PM

Quote from: opsguy on July 13, 2014, 05:17:08 PM

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, [email protected]. You will need to reclone/compile.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.

buy4crypto

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

freecrypto.top

Quote from: barabbas on July 13, 2014, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: stormia on July 13, 2014, 05:10:37 PM

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

Because it is an easy target... if you own 4.5 million coins. Or, in the immortal words of Gordon Gekko, because "it can be done, damnit!". A 51% attack is a guaranteed success. The Black Hand owns 4.5 million VRC.

Quite simple, really.

FUD FUD FUD

Wonder what you are doing here, mad about thieves not getting paid huh? I wonder how many thieves we pissed off today, must have been a big team, Seems like all of blackcoins finest community members have shown up here today, coincidence I am sure! There community is known for having such nice people involved!

pb2014

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

Quote from: kd5zgl on July 13, 2014, 04:58:26 PM

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

No. When you get the money from the rollback then you pay the guy who sold you the gold. Unless you want a broken knee cap.

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: eiskalt on July 13, 2014, 05:19:10 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: eiskalt on July 13, 2014, 05:04:51 PM

Quote from: jubalix on July 13, 2014, 04:55:45 PM

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?

Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.

Nothing is broken, when you roll back a fraudulent transaction by hardforking. The system works, trust will be restored. It is not a handicap to hardfork, it is an advantage.

The more I think about it, the clearer I can see, that this dogma of "never-roll-back-a-transaction,-even-if-it-is-fraudulent,-because-you-must-protect-the-integrity-of-the-blockchain" was invented by the very same scammers that committed all these thefts.

Nonsense.
If fraud CAN happen it is broken.
If the whole system can come crashing down because of one fraudulent transaction then it is very broken.
Why do you think Bitcoin is worth so much more than anything else? Because it has survived stuff like this and worse.

If you need a rollback then the system doesn't work.
If there is a rollback then there is no trust.
What a rollback shows is that it doesn't work and can't be trusted... it needs to be fixed.
A broken system.
If Mintpal got stolen all its Bitcoin do you think there would be a rollback to protect daytraders?
Ask yourself why not.
What is the difference here?

The only answer here is to move to decentralization.
Mintpal failed. Mtgox failed. Central things will always fail at some point.

pnosker

sr. member

Activity: 504

Merit: 250

Quote from: opsguy on July 13, 2014, 05:17:08 PM

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, [email protected]. You will need to reclone/compile.

eiskalt

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: eiskalt on July 13, 2014, 05:04:51 PM

Quote from: jubalix on July 13, 2014, 04:55:45 PM

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?

Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.

Nothing is broken, when you roll back a fraudulent transaction by hardforking. The system works, trust will be restored. It is not a handicap to hardfork, it is an advantage.

The more I think about it, the clearer I can see, that this dogma of "never-roll-back-a-transaction,-even-if-it-is-fraudulent,-because-you-must-protect-the-integrity-of-the-blockchain" was invented by the very same scammers that committed all these thefts.

opsguy

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

majeis

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: stormia on July 13, 2014, 05:10:37 PM

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

Unless MP releases more info about the hack, there's not going to be a more widely-accepted answer other than:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Haters+Gonna+Hate

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: alwa1 on July 13, 2014, 05:09:28 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

NOISE

Precedent of a rollback would be horrible.
Rollback is not possible without losing all credibility.
What the hell is the use of a cryptocurrency if this is the way it will be played.
How many rollbacks in the future?
Oh hell I made a mistake in my payment, lets just roll it all back.
Might as well just stick to central banks and credit cards.
Why not lobby to get BTC rolled back to before MTGOX lost all money?
People lost way more there.
No rollback.
No fork.

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.

Only person who can actually save vericoin at this stage is the hacker.
Funny thought.

Maybe the hacker will want ransom in BTC Cheesy

Hacker just has to send most of the vericoins to irretrievable address.
This will destroy the coins, drop supply, raise price.
Mintpal will be shamed. Hacker will be hated but forgiven/forgotten.
Vericoin will survive.
Hacker will make money as fee for showing Mintpals poor security.

Profetu

full member

Activity: 204

Merit: 100

Main topic of conversation at the party for sure.

barabbas

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1000

Quote from: stormia on July 13, 2014, 05:10:37 PM

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

Because it is an easy target... if you own 4.5 million coins. Or, in the immortal words of Gordon Gekko, because "it can be done, damnit!". A 51% attack is a guaranteed success. The Black Hand owns 4.5 million VRC.

Quite simple, really.

Artoodeetoo

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: stormia on July 13, 2014, 05:10:37 PM

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

PRobably because it had the most in its hot wallet...

alwa1

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: stormia on July 13, 2014, 05:10:37 PM

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

maybe because it was expected a huge volume incoming weeks… everything is just speculation now

Yuzu

sr. member

Activity: 368

Merit: 250

Quote from: stormia on July 13, 2014, 05:09:17 PM

Quote from: Yuzu on July 13, 2014, 05:07:40 PM

Quote from: Seldar on July 13, 2014, 05:02:59 PM

Quote from: kd5zgl on July 13, 2014, 04:58:26 PM

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!

Uh, no. If you have the gold and you gave another man the VRC for it, then HE gets his VRC back while you have the gold. So everything is still even.

Not if the exchange of VRC for gold happened after the attack

That's extremely unlikely if the exchange caught the theft quickly.

adaseb

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 1723

Well this is exactly what greed and fear do to people

Just like the stock markets

Just let them rollback. Nothing will go wrong

stormia

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

alwa1

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

NOISE

Precedent of a rollback would be horrible.
Rollback is not possible without losing all credibility.
What the hell is the use of a cryptocurrency if this is the way it will be played.
How many rollbacks in the future?
Oh hell I made a mistake in my payment, lets just roll it all back.
Might as well just stick to central banks and credit cards.
Why not lobby to get BTC rolled back to before MTGOX lost all money?
People lost way more there.
No rollback.
No fork.

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.

Only person who can actually save vericoin at this stage is the hacker.
Funny thought.

Maybe the hacker will want ransom in BTC Cheesy

stormia

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Yuzu on July 13, 2014, 05:07:40 PM

Quote from: Seldar on July 13, 2014, 05:02:59 PM

Quote from: kd5zgl on July 13, 2014, 04:58:26 PM

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!

Uh, no. If you have the gold and you gave another man the VRC for it, then HE gets his VRC back while you have the gold. So everything is still even.

Not if the exchange of VRC for gold happened after the attack

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: eiskalt on July 13, 2014, 05:04:51 PM

Quote from: jubalix on July 13, 2014, 04:55:45 PM

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?

Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.

barabbas

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1000

How many rolls back in the future is the question?

The clear answer: As many as situations grant. Any and all thefts will be reversed. How's that for assurance, transparency and honesty?

Ultimately VRC will be worth what its community determines and supports. What's with all these familiar names (all associated one way or5 another with BC and The Black Hand, by the way) that never ever posted here and now come to post shit against hard forking and leaving the thieves with nothing? People add two plu two, come on!

Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 565. (Read 1356163 times)