[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 566.

Yuzu

sr. member

Activity: 368

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Quote from: Seldar on July 13, 2014, 05:02:59 PM

Quote from: kd5zgl on July 13, 2014, 04:58:26 PM

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!

Uh, no. If you have the gold and you gave another man the VRC for it, then HE gets his VRC back while you have the gold. So everything is still even.

FUD_master

newbie

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Quote from: BadAss.Sx on July 13, 2014, 05:02:03 PM

But the meaning of a decentralized exchange has been set again.

A majority of stakeholders have to agree on the fork. Without forking now, there will be a single entity that can make the blockchain fork. If we do fork now it takes away the power to do that.

Edit: and I believe that, in this case, there is a general agreement among stakeholders to fork.

eiskalt

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Quote from: jubalix on July 13, 2014, 04:55:45 PM

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?

Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

Seldar

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Activity: 333

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Quote from: kd5zgl on July 13, 2014, 04:58:26 PM

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!

I'm not a VC supporter, but I can't stop being revolted by Mintpal's behaviour.
They make an horrible mistake with their poor security and then they asked (or threatened ?) the devs to reverse the blockchain...
Poor devs, all their work beeing destroyed like that because of a so bad company...

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

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Quote from: ?? on ??

NOISE

Precedent of a rollback would be horrible.
Rollback is not possible without losing all credibility.
What the hell is the use of a cryptocurrency if this is the way it will be played.
How many rollbacks in the future?
Oh hell I made a mistake in my payment, lets just roll it all back.
Might as well just stick to central banks and credit cards.
Why not lobby to get BTC rolled back to before MTGOX lost all money?
People lost way more there.
No rollback.
No fork.

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.

Only person who can actually save vericoin at this stage is the hacker.
Funny thought.

barabbas

legendary

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Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 03:51:20 PM

Quote from: CryptoLTD on July 13, 2014, 03:39:05 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 03:33:16 PM

Quote from: pb2014 on July 13, 2014, 03:20:14 PM

Quote from: scrypto on July 13, 2014, 03:06:25 PM

Quote from: buy4crypto on July 13, 2014, 01:32:15 PM

Vericoin's statement

http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf

bullshit

This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.

There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.

You "guarantee" a lot of shit, that's what you "guarantee". As a matter of fact if EVERY THEFT is reversed, that would indeed guaranteed no thefts at all. And the cryptyo community needs that dearly to gain any semblance of credibility in the real world.

Oh and by the way, I am going to believe that you, Mr. Random, are indeed involved in this theft. Just like I would consider anyone who defends that a massive theft goes unpunished.

I am wired that way.

BadAss.Sx

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Bulletproof VPS/VPN/Email @ BadAss.Sx

But the meaning of a decentralized exchange has been set again.

socal

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Well what I see is a few people for the rollback I really don't see the issue with it you like to say "oh bitcoin never did this bitcoin never did this" but there's two MAJOR ISSUES with that argument. FIRST AND FOR MOST VERICOIN IS NOT BITCOIN. Secondly Bitcoin has never had 30% of all coins stolen, bet you money something would be done if it did happen to bitcoin though.

So all in all I believe the Devs are doing the right thing and yes there will invariably be a dump after the exchanges unfreeze but I'm excited for it because that means once again I get to take VRC out of the hands of idiot day traders and weak hands for cheap and put them in my nice long term staking wallet to actually support VRC

YoyodyneSystems

legendary

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Quote from: tigerwood0432 on July 13, 2014, 04:23:16 PM

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................

VRC FORKED NOW . SO WHAT ?

kd5zgl

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

Conurtrol

sr. member

Activity: 478

Merit: 250

Quote from: jubalix on July 13, 2014, 04:55:45 PM

Quote from: eiskalt on July 13, 2014, 04:52:03 PM

Hi all,

just want to show support for the DEVs decision to hardfork the blockchain.

I like it, how finally somebody stands up against all these cryptothefts by protecting the property of community members and investors.

I am all for letting those thieves know, that they cannot screw up the vericoin blockchain. A hardfork will discourage them to try again, because they have nothing to gain. It will in fact protect the integrity of the blockchain, because property rights are respected here.

Bitcoin Foundation and DEVs thought/think they need to protect the integrity of their blockchain by never rolling back transactions even after considerable amounts of BTC were stolen. This only lead to more thefts, scams and fraud - up to the point, when mtgox itself went into bankruptcy under highly suspicious circumstances.
And now $-volume at the exchanges is falling and mainstream is scared away from bitcoin, because of all these thefts.

It is not more than a theory, that you cannot roll back fraudulent transactions, because it will discourage future investors - eventually it will be proven wrong.

That is just my opinion,

Thanx

If vericoin gets dumped, I will buy more.

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

so what happens if ghash gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

onsightit

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

truth=(true?true:false);

Quote from: onsightit on July 13, 2014, 04:48:53 PM

From Li Zhuan: "We help community propser, not just us. When #vericoin releases new wallet required for hardfork & people adopt,our full force will be shown."

Thanks, Li!

I think Li Zhuan will happily catch all the dumpers after the fork. i'm holding and staking...

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: jubalix on July 13, 2014, 04:53:25 PM

It's hard to see how VRC is going to come out of this well.

consider. Forks in BTC have been for technical reasons asfaik.

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 04:48:08 PM

I just occurred to me...
if I was the hacker:

I would send most of the coins to an address without keys.
something like: mintpalsucskandhasnosecuritylol

Hacker turned hero?
Shows Mintpal security flaw.
Decreases coin supply.
Keeps small amount as fee.
Price of coin goes up.
?? ?
Profit

Mintpal dies.
Central exchanges die.
Central everything dies.
Distribution lives.
New world.

jubalix

legendary

Activity: 2660

Merit: 1023

Quote from: eiskalt on July 13, 2014, 04:52:03 PM

Hi all,

just want to show support for the DEVs decision to hardfork the blockchain.

I like it, how finally somebody stands up against all these cryptothefts by protecting the property of community members and investors.

I am all for letting those thieves know, that they cannot screw up the vericoin blockchain. A hardfork will discourage them to try again, because they have nothing to gain. It will in fact protect the integrity of the blockchain, because property rights are respected here.

Bitcoin Foundation and DEVs thought/think they need to protect the integrity of their blockchain by never rolling back transactions even after considerable amounts of BTC were stolen. This only lead to more thefts, scams and fraud - up to the point, when mtgox itself went into bankruptcy under highly suspicious circumstances.
And now $-volume at the exchanges is falling and mainstream is scared away from bitcoin, because of all these thefts.

It is not more than a theory, that you cannot roll back fraudulent transactions, because it will discourage future investors - eventually it will be proven wrong.

That is just my opinion,

Thanx

If vericoin gets dumped, I will buy more.

so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.

jubalix

legendary

Activity: 2660

Merit: 1023

It's hard to see how VRC is going to come out of this well.

consider. Forks in BTC have been for technical reasons asfaik.

majeis

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: btcsnippers on July 13, 2014, 04:51:11 PM

can u guys please stop with these page fillers and pm eachoter or get a room.

I'll stop because you asked so nicely

eiskalt

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Hi all,

just want to show support for the DEVs decision to hardfork the blockchain.

I like it, how finally somebody stands up against all these cryptothefts by protecting the property of community members and investors.

I am all for letting those thieves know, that they cannot screw up the vericoin blockchain. A hardfork will discourage them to try again, because they have nothing to gain. It will in fact protect the integrity of the blockchain, because property rights are respected here.

Bitcoin Foundation and DEVs thought/think they need to protect the integrity of their blockchain by never rolling back transactions even after considerable amounts of BTC were stolen. This only lead to more thefts, scams and fraud - up to the point, when mtgox itself went into bankruptcy under highly suspicious circumstances.
And now $-volume at the exchanges is falling and mainstream is scared away from bitcoin, because of all these thefts.

It is not more than a theory, that you cannot roll back fraudulent transactions, because it will discourage future investors - eventually it will be proven wrong.

That is just my opinion,

Thanx

If vericoin gets dumped, I will buy more.

btcsnippers

full member

Activity: 217

Merit: 100

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 04:40:53 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 04:39:11 PM

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 04:30:27 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 04:29:06 PM

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 04:20:38 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 04:15:20 PM

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 04:09:26 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 04:08:19 PM

Quote from: surgexvb on July 13, 2014, 04:05:39 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 04:02:22 PM

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 03:56:03 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 03:51:20 PM

Quote from: CryptoLTD on July 13, 2014, 03:39:05 PM

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 03:33:16 PM

Quote from: pb2014 on July 13, 2014, 03:20:14 PM

Quote from: scrypto on July 13, 2014, 03:06:25 PM

Quote from: buy4crypto on July 13, 2014, 01:32:15 PM

Vericoin's statement

http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf

bullshit

This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.

There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.

You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 03:36:40 PM

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

Uhh, because it would result in the needless destruction of an exchange and a currency and the enrichment of a thieving party for no reason other than the preservation of the blockchain, and forking would address that.

Where is the flaw in my logic?

And prove to me why it would destroy Mintpal and Vericoin. You cannot. If Vericoin plummets in price, which it would in this scenario, Mintpal can pay back the stolen Vericoin easily. And eventually Vericoin would find a new equilibrium price and recover.

What you do not like is the thief gaining from this and the price of Vericoin suffering.

So we're back to my original original question that you never answered:

Quote from: majeis on July 13, 2014, 03:36:40 PM

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

We are not "back" to your original question. Now that I have destroyed every woefully prepared argument you have put my way, which you conveniently ignore, you have fallen back onto something else.

If someone gained 51% of the network hash of the Bitcoin network, they can change the hash mechanism without violating decentralisation or irreversibility. And other such arguments.

Destroyed?

Your solution is to let a hacker dump 33% of the coin supply and see what happens.

can u guys please stop with these page fillers and pm eachoter or get a room.

majeis

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: mr_random on July 13, 2014, 04:48:18 PM