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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 104. (Read 1276789 times)

hero member
Activity: 678
Merit: 500
Sounds more like Ripple bought a slave.

Huh?

Why XCP is valuable?
Is XCP to XCP protocol like XRP to Ripple protocol?
Thanks

Ripple is distributed, Counterparty is also decentralized.

They way I understand it is that XCP is not meant to be an alternative currency, i.e. you wouldn't buy a pizza with it. It's the internal token of the Counterparty platform, it represents stake in the protocol (e.g. for foundation voting, etc), and is used for various spam fees inside the protocol.

Most importantly, XCP is the fuel for smart contracts. No more XCP can ever be created, and XCP are being used up for the running of each execution step of a decentralized application (a.k.a. smart contract). It will not be possible to compensate the running of Dapps without XCP.

NOTE: It's important to keep in mind that many things are being called smart contracts nowadays (even multi-sig), but the difference here is that XCP smart contracts are fully programmable (turing-complete) and entirely peer-to-peer (while some other services are centralized).

So basically:

it's the main currency of the smart contracts system (very underrated)
* it is available on exchanges
* it is necessary for spam fees
* it's deflationary, and supply is decreasing asymptotically
* there was NO pre-mine or pre-sale of any kind
* it is used for foundation voting regarding the future of Counterparty

The coolest thing that the Ripple gateway makes possible are instant-transactions with tokens. Combine that with the smart contracts system, and XCP is a beast.


Thanks for sharing  Smiley
full member
Activity: 121
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Counterparty General Manager
counterparty-lib v9.51.0 (upgrade by block 352000) & counterparty-cli v1.1.0 are out. Release notes at https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/releases & https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-cli/releases
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
sr. member
Activity: 432
Merit: 250
Sounds more like Ripple bought a slave.

Huh?

Why XCP is valuable?
Is XCP to XCP protocol like XRP to Ripple protocol?
Thanks

Ripple is distributed, Counterparty is also decentralized.

They way I understand it is that XCP is not meant to be an alternative currency, i.e. you wouldn't buy a pizza with it. It's the internal token of the Counterparty platform, it represents stake in the protocol (e.g. for foundation voting, etc), and is used for various spam fees inside the protocol.

Most importantly, XCP is the fuel for smart contracts. No more XCP can ever be created, and XCP are being used up for the running of each execution step of a decentralized application (a.k.a. smart contract). It will not be possible to compensate the running of Dapps without XCP.

NOTE: It's important to keep in mind that many things are being called smart contracts nowadays (even multi-sig), but the difference here is that XCP smart contracts are fully programmable (turing-complete) and entirely peer-to-peer (while some other services are centralized).

So basically:

it's the main currency of the smart contracts system (very underrated)
* it is available on exchanges
* it is necessary for spam fees
* it's deflationary, and supply is decreasing asymptotically
* there was NO pre-mine or pre-sale of any kind
* it is used for foundation voting regarding the future of Counterparty

The coolest thing that the Ripple gateway makes possible are instant-transactions with tokens. Combine that with the smart contracts system, and XCP is a beast.
hero member
Activity: 678
Merit: 500
Why XCP is valuable?

Is XCP to XCP protocol like XRP to Ripple protocol?

Thanks
sr. member
Activity: 433
Merit: 250
Sounds more like Ripple bought a slave.
full member
Activity: 176
Merit: 100
Ain't no party like a Counterparty!
sr. member
Activity: 476
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Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
how far are smart contracts away from being implemented into mainnet?

There's still a lot of development and testing to be done, but we're making very good progress. (See, e.g., this upstream PR made this morning: https://github.com/ethereum/pyethereum/pull/238#issuecomment-87641778). It's very important to get the launch right the first time (for security reasons, if nothing else).
hero member
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how far are smart contracts away from being implemented into mainnet?
hero member
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Counterpartying
legendary
Activity: 1106
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What other number are there that you're looking at to make determinations, which were not mentioned? Transactions is all I can think of off the top of my head.

Well, that certainly depends, but let me first ask: what do you want to measure?

My point basically was: you could transfer tokens to 1000x receivers in 1000 transactions, or in a single send-to-owners transaction. Definitely a huge difference in the number of transactions, but would this be all that different? Likewise, looking at the market cap alone can create a skewed impression, say for example, when only a small percentage of all coins are free floating, which appears to be the case with Ripple, as far as I know.

That's not meant to slander anyone (e.g. Ripple), but rather: one should probably not get to crazy about one aspect, when the full picture has more than one. Smiley
full member
Activity: 176
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Ain't no party like a Counterparty!
Epic stuff

Yeah I notice a lot in this crypto space that many people are trying their hand for the first time at accepting investor money for their projects and when that "shareholder" pressure starts up because people are expecting a timely ROI all of a sudden people start cracking behind the seams. This is one of the reasons I really am worried for projects like Ethereum, those guys seem like some of the most intelligent young people in the world but I don't think many people who invested saw it as "donation money" and at some point there will be a realization that literally everyone who donated to that project essentially gave their money away and then what will happen?

I think everything the devs at counterparty are actually focusing on (development and optimization of the actual protocol itself) are the best things to focus on and everything related to the business sector in the space are the focus of those who are running business'. If you are running swarm, it would be understandable if all of a sudden the counterparty protocol became compromised, that would be reason to complain to the devs about their protol and maybe have a lack of faith, but complaining about business competition? Seriously? You're killing me Larry...
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 502
Hey have you guys seen the leader of SWARM came into the Counterparty nomination forums and basically said he thinks we have no future? What do you guys think? I personally responded in the Q&A section (my username there is simba6)

Quote

I'm Joel Dietz, Swarm founder. I have put together a document that I'm circulating privately at the moment in order to collect critical feedback and decide if it is worth running.

My main consideration is this. I'm interested in Counterparty becoming a healthy and growing ecosystem. This means that it needs all of the following:

(1) Excited developers building on the platform
(2) Business potential, either current or future
(3) Competitive advantage vis-a-vis other platforms offering the same or similar services
(4) Engaged community promoting the platform

Obviously I've already committed a lot of time and energy to this ecosystem, but it's not entirely clear to me that it is growing at the pace necessary to be competitive.

First, developer evangelism while perhaps better than any other 2.0 project on the Bitcoin blockchain is not nearly at the same level as other off-chain projects (NXT, BitShares, NuBits, Ethereum). I estimate that there are something like ~10 developer actively building something on the project and none of the bigger players are releasing back open source code.

A good example of this is Swarm, we've had a strong desire to contribute back open source code but have been inhibited by the fact that there is a strong internal competitive nature to the ecosystem. Compare the slogans of the different folks now working around the ecosystem: cryptoequity (Swarm), smart securities (Symbiont), cryptoequity (Overstock), smart corporations (Koinify).

Can you tell what the difference is? Probably not. I certainly can't. Although Swarm was the first to describe or offer any of this, it makes for a fairly cluttered ecosystem.

Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

The net result that I've observed is that many of the companies in the space are less committed to Counterparty than they once were. For example Koinify, who even now has a board seat on the Counterparty foundation, is not doing any of their announced upcoming sales on Counterparty. The only one they did, GEMS, was from someone who had already decided to use Counterparty in advance of the sale.

So in general people are making only a loose commitment to the underlying technology and ecosystem, which makes sense from a business perspective but is disappointing to me since in general when I started with Counterparty I invested a fair bit of effort and time in an effort to see the whole ecosystem grow.

My general feeling about Counterparty at the moment is disappointment. I don't have a specific desire to invest a lot of time and energy promoting something that is going to ultimately turn into a second place solution. I do have a large desire to open source code and provide other resources back to the community, but don't feel like I can do that in the current environment with the risk of taking a major economic loss on my part as a result.

In any case, all of these are factors in my decision to run or not run for the Counterparty board. If they can't be resolved, I honestly don't think Counterparty has a future.

Also, although I think it is nice to have a "community director," what is really needed is not simply some idea of 'community,' but some more long-term strategic planning to build out the whole ecosystem. In my opinion so far that's been neglected -- and the XCP price shows it.

OK apologies in advance for the rant, it's meant in defense of the admiral Counterparty team, who at their own cost have built something incredible, functional and leading in the cryptosphere yet are getting talked down by a guy who's built next to nothing in a year at considerable expense to investors.

To me Counterparty is more interesting than Bitcoin itself, allowing business or individuals to produce tokens that can be used for anything from representing loans to business equity, whilst providing the mechanism to instantly administrate repayments or send dividends. This gives the opportunity to offer a value proposition to investors where Bitcoin fails.

Joel and his small team of young web designers took over $1m in fundraising a year or so ago to create an unfinished website. The proposition itself, was for them to syphon off as much cash as they can from anyone offering or purchasing crypto equities in exchange for using a platform they had yet to start (isn't Bitcointalk better for this purpose anyway? works fine, did for them, Counterparty, Mastercoin and many others! plus has massive amounts of established traffic to target prospective investors!).

It really is amazing what a non nonsensical 8 page PDF filled with pictures and charts that don't tally up can do!

A respectable business startup should take personal risk, sacrifice determination and passion ala Counterparty. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with raising funds to meet a goal but Joel and his team were aiming for the $21m mark nearly ten times Oculus Rift funding goals! seriously WTF! Joel & co are extremely lucky to have been supported so heavily in their efforts.

To put things in perspective I've got friends locally here in Chiangmai who are fantastic web designers with vastly more experience and their commercial rates are only in the $15 an hour bracket, $600 a week. OK it's a particular cheap place to live but come on, a $600 a week subsidy should be plenty enough for any young group of coders, just out of uni to follow their dreams.

If you put the amount they raised, into man hours of graft at that rate, it works out that they have about 70k hours of coding (8 years!) during which they're certainly not going to starve anywhere on the planet.

What Joel and his team have achieved in a year with a million dollars, I could pay a couple of friends locally to do for a few $k in far fewer months, pretty shameful. More shameful and a testament to the amount of front he's got, is that he's spreading muck about some of the most dedicated and on the money coders, who have built the most functional platform to date for the purpose of distributing custom tokens.

How he's got the nerve, or even feels that his opinion should be considered relevant a year after raising so much money, and producing so little himself really is beggars belief. Pretty funny! Joel you should perhaps reflect on the stark contrast and speed between your own heavily funded work, and the work the Counterparty team have produced at their own cost, in a similar time period.
full member
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Counterparty General Manager
New Counterparty Update is live featuring Counterparty Foundation community director candidates, the Chrome XCP wallet, development updates & more. Check it out at http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-update-mar-27/
hero member
Activity: 647
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Counterpartying
Quote
Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

It is undeniable that XCP leads in terms of transaction volume and usage with a very significant difference, but looking at one number alone may leave a sligthly skewed impression, as this is sometimes a comparison between apples and oranges. You'd probably be surprised how many transactions can be associated with "send to many" actions, such as the distribution of LTBcoins.

What I learned over the time: the whole eco system is still at a very early stage.

What other number are there that you're looking at to make determinations, which were not mentioned? Transactions is all I can think of off the top of my head.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1026
Quote
Also, if you look at the stats you'll see that although Counterparty has greater than 80% of the transaction volume among Bitcoin blockchain projects, the market capitalization of Maidsafe (on Omni/Mastercoin) is greater than all Counterparty projects combined.

It is undeniable that XCP leads in terms of transaction volume and usage with a very significant difference, but looking at one number alone may leave a sligthly skewed impression, as this is sometimes a comparison between apples and oranges. You'd probably be surprised how many transactions can be associated with "send to many" actions, such as the distribution of LTBcoins.

What I learned over the time: the whole eco system is still at a very early stage.
member
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Does anyone know how I can access the features of the counterparty wallet that say not avaliable in my country (land of the free of all places). 
full member
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Ain't no party like a Counterparty!
Yeah one of the things I wanted to point out (as someone who follows counterparty and nxt) is the difference in caliber of those who browse the forums and engage in business ventures in these two protocols. It's easy to say nxt seems better because of their pretty forum and the amount of organized hype they are able to produce for investors and such but in counterparty the type of ventures you see being created are all world changing level ventures. There are very few cheap "Lets start a thousand dollar business" ideas going on in the counterparty ecosystem.

When I gauge the potential value of these various protocols I look at the level of the developers and investors in the ecosystem and my goodness here we have people with ideas like the bitcongress initiative (http://bitcongress.org/) which aims to replace how we vote nationally using tokens made using counterparty, we got ColonyEarth (https://colonyearth.com/) which is another world changer idea whose currency permacredits will be created from counterparty, by the way if you never heard of colony earth scroll down on the link i provided and look at the investors/team involved in that plan, you got the freaking Euro architect on that team!! I mean these are just a few but just about every counterparty business venture is a mega game changer idea so I think it will take a bit longer to see the sort of market cap results people may come to expect when they compare it to nxt or mastercoin who come out with things almost weekly you see what I mean?
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