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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 118. (Read 1276936 times)

hero member
Activity: 647
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Counterpartying
It seems to me that Counterparty has a lot going for it but will it always be considered "slow" compared to other 2.0 tech since it's based on Bitcoin which takes a long time to confirm transactions?

The developers chose Bitcoin because they think it's the most secure blockchain (this is debatable). I agree with you that Bitcoin's slowness is a major drawback for Counterparty and that it is hindering its adoption. However, it's possible for Counterparty to move to another blockchain. If enough people complain about it then they might do it.

The reason I still haven't sold anything is that they could port it to any other blockchain anytime and Counterparty has the least legal baggage which is an asset. The Counterparty team has all it needs to come out as a big player in the industry. I just wish that they would think a little bit more visionary since Bitcoin / Proof of work and running a meta protocol on a (Bitcoin) network that is secured/powered by inflation is economically flawed.

Bitcoin has the most secure and time-tested blockchain. To new businesses, Bitcoin is the only crypto worth using. It is the reason Medici is using Counterparty. One can argue the virtue of other cryptos, but they are all theoretical unless they see actual adoption and move beyond their initial development phase. XCP would not be close to where it is today without Bitcoin. It's a good thing that XCP doesn't use it's own blockchain as I've seen dozens of cryptos fizzle away, and when they do, their mining network follows.
I agree that for now Bitcoin is the best option for marketing counterparty. Also agree about the "time tested" factor which is another reason to be on the Bitcoin blockchain. So no doubt that for now Bitcoin is the best option.

I doubt that the Bitcoin blockchain it is the safest option given (delegated) proof of stake (DPOS) alternatives like BitShares. DPOS is more decentralized and cheaper than POW (Bitcoin's funding of security through dilution /issuance of new coins is a real cost; simple calculation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6852307). Whether it is more "safe" depends on your definition of "safe" and security is hard to measure anyway (different attack vectors). To me it is obvious that Bitcoin in it's current form (POW) can not serve the purpose of a global ledger at scale. I guess that the Counterparty team is thinking about alternatives but it would be nice to see that they do.

An Overstock representative here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkiyRV99eEI (dont find the exact spot atm) also said that a crypto asset that has the value of a fiat currency is needed to facilitate buying of company shares. Who would want to buy a completely volatile asset in order to buy company stock with it? That volatility is a risk for a non trader. BitShares has solved this too with BitAssets / market pegged assets (http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/).

I am not saying Bitshares is the solution. What I want to say is that I as an investor would be more confident if I saw a publicly visible long term vision to those problems (Bitcoin's POW and volatility risk) by the Counterparty team. I do believe though the Counterparty team is capable of meeting the market's needs.

You peg a Counterparty asset to the fiat of your choice so that you have a digital token with a constant value. The process is...

1. Some company makes a Counterparty asset that is always redeemable for $1 per unit. They sell those tokens on their super reputable bank site for $1.00 per unit (or more to build in profit model).
2. Users who want to buy stuff, like a stock on Medici, would buy those crypto dollars with regular fiat, skip all the volatility of Bitcoin, and have digital dollars in the cloud, so to speak.
3. Users could trade away the digital dollars to other people, sell them back to the institution they were created by, or simply buy things with them. They would always be redeemable for $1.00 unless whoever issued it went broke.

This just puts fiat on the blockchain, kind of.
sr. member
Activity: 441
Merit: 250
It seems to me that Counterparty has a lot going for it but will it always be considered "slow" compared to other 2.0 tech since it's based on Bitcoin which takes a long time to confirm transactions?

The developers chose Bitcoin because they think it's the most secure blockchain (this is debatable). I agree with you that Bitcoin's slowness is a major drawback for Counterparty and that it is hindering its adoption. However, it's possible for Counterparty to move to another blockchain. If enough people complain about it then they might do it.

The reason I still haven't sold anything is that they could port it to any other blockchain anytime and Counterparty has the least legal baggage which is an asset. The Counterparty team has all it needs to come out as a big player in the industry. I just wish that they would think a little bit more visionary since Bitcoin / Proof of work and running a meta protocol on a (Bitcoin) network that is secured/powered by inflation is economically flawed.

Bitcoin has the most secure and time-tested blockchain. To new businesses, Bitcoin is the only crypto worth using. It is the reason Medici is using Counterparty. One can argue the virtue of other cryptos, but they are all theoretical unless they see actual adoption and move beyond their initial development phase. XCP would not be close to where it is today without Bitcoin. It's a good thing that XCP doesn't use it's own blockchain as I've seen dozens of cryptos fizzle away, and when they do, their mining network follows.
I agree that for now Bitcoin is the best option for marketing counterparty. Also agree about the "time tested" factor which is another reason to be on the Bitcoin blockchain. So no doubt that for now Bitcoin is the best option.

I doubt that the Bitcoin blockchain it is the safest option given (delegated) proof of stake (DPOS) alternatives like BitShares. DPOS is more decentralized and cheaper than POW (Bitcoin's funding of security through dilution /issuance of new coins is a real cost; simple calculation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6852307). Whether it is more "safe" depends on your definition of "safe" and security is hard to measure anyway (different attack vectors). To me it is obvious that Bitcoin in it's current form (POW) can not serve the purpose of a global ledger at scale. I guess that the Counterparty team is thinking about alternatives but it would be nice to see that they do.

An Overstock representative here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkiyRV99eEI (dont find the exact spot atm) also said that a crypto asset that has the value of a fiat currency is needed to facilitate buying of company shares. Who would want to buy a completely volatile asset in order to buy company stock with it? That volatility is a risk for a non trader. BitShares has solved this too with BitAssets / market pegged assets (http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/).

I am not saying Bitshares is the solution. What I want to say is that I as an investor would be more confident if I saw a publicly visible long term vision to those problems (Bitcoin's POW and volatility risk) by the Counterparty team. I do believe though the Counterparty team is capable of meeting the market's needs.
legendary
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legendary
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Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
Since we use the -addrindex, separated wallet from counterparty-server,  are we there yet,  where we can have public counterparty-servers to respond to thin counterparty-clients?

I think one issue that deters ppl from participating  is it requires quite a dedication to set server up.

If there were a list of servers for a thin client to use, like electrum model,  it would gear up the adoption.

legendary
Activity: 2128
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Join the crew on BTC_XCP Cryptocat for good trading discussion.

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hero member
Activity: 924
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It seems to me that Counterparty has a lot going for it but will it always be considered "slow" compared to other 2.0 tech since it's based on Bitcoin which takes a long time to confirm transactions?

The developers chose Bitcoin because they think it's the most secure blockchain (this is debatable). I agree with you that Bitcoin's slowness is a major drawback for Counterparty and that it is hindering its adoption. However, it's possible for Counterparty to move to another blockchain. If enough people complain about it then they might do it.

The reason I still haven't sold anything is that they could port it to any other blockchain anytime and Counterparty has the least legal baggage which is an asset. The Counterparty team has all it needs to come out as a big player in the industry. I just wish that they would think a little bit more visionary since Bitcoin / Proof of work and running a meta protocol on a (Bitcoin) network that is secured/powered by inflation is economically flawed.

Bitcoin has the most secure and time-tested blockchain. To new businesses, Bitcoin is the only crypto worth using. It is the reason Medici is using Counterparty. One can argue the virtue of other cryptos, but they are all theoretical unless they see actual adoption and move beyond their initial development phase. XCP would not be close to where it is today without Bitcoin. It's a good thing that XCP doesn't use it's own blockchain as I've seen dozens of cryptos fizzle away, and when they do, their mining network follows.
sr. member
Activity: 441
Merit: 250
It seems to me that Counterparty has a lot going for it but will it always be considered "slow" compared to other 2.0 tech since it's based on Bitcoin which takes a long time to confirm transactions?

The developers chose Bitcoin because they think it's the most secure blockchain (this is debatable). I agree with you that Bitcoin's slowness is a major drawback for Counterparty and that it is hindering its adoption. However, it's possible for Counterparty to move to another blockchain. If enough people complain about it then they might do it.

The reason I still haven't sold anything is that they could port it to any other blockchain anytime and Counterparty has the least legal baggage which is an asset. The Counterparty team has all it needs to come out as a big player in the industry. I just wish that they would think a little bit more visionary since Bitcoin / Proof of work and running a meta protocol on a (Bitcoin) network that is secured/powered by inflation is economically flawed.
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
It seems to me that Counterparty has a lot going for it but will it always be considered "slow" compared to other 2.0 tech since it's based on Bitcoin which takes a long time to confirm transactions?

The developers chose Bitcoin because they think it's the most secure blockchain (this is debatable). I agree with you that Bitcoin's slowness is a major drawback for Counterparty and that it is hindering its adoption. However, it's possible for Counterparty to move to another blockchain. If enough people complain about it then they might do it.
newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
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legendary
Activity: 1036
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Huh what BTCD  Huh

BTCD is an alternative implementation of a Bitcoin full node (like Bitcoin Core formerly known as Bitcoind).

These current improvements to Counterparty are purely structural and make the entire implementation more 'modular'. In very simple terms this makes it much more friendly to developers, by breaking up the structure of the code into separate 'compartments'. You might need one part, but not the other. You might to connect one with something, but not something else. Etc. It also makes it clear what part of the code is fragile to change, and what can be changed freely.

This is a direct response to various concerns voiced by the community, as some projects and developers faced challenges. This move towards a 'plug-in' mentality, clarity and expansion is essentially a statement by the developers showing that Counterparty is not a standalone 'program'. Counterparty is an open-source protocol that invites developers to experiment and explore.



As JahPowerBit said, You can make light wallets, GUIs and applications with much less effort now.

For people following the Counterparty project on github (something I really recommend), you may have noticed that documentation is being completely redone as well. https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP

It's easy to deduce that this is a clear effort in speeding up the development of 3rd party applications, reducing the learning curve and risk for new developers, and creating a more stable platform.

Let's get coding, party people Cool



Ah ok i thought Bitcoin Dark i was lost
Thanks for the explanation
legendary
Activity: 1372
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It seems to me that Counterparty has a lot going for it but will it always be considered "slow" compared to other 2.0 tech since it's based on Bitcoin which takes a long time to confirm transactions?
sr. member
Activity: 335
Merit: 255
Counterparty Developer
Also ... I am fed up with the full bitcoind node in the background.
I just started implementing an extention, which will allow the lightweight operation with obelisk nodes like for example electrum.
I hope you guys will be interested in that?

Sure!! It would be great!
legendary
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legendary
Activity: 1260
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newbie
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Traders: Betting on the future of Counterparty?

Try BTC/XCP trading over Bitrated for native multisig escrow and no hassle trading. Deep liquidity on a decentralized anon orderbook.

Install Cryptocat and join room BTC_XCP.

Install Tox and add ID: 4DE791009D234CCC66ED1B6D417FF99ED8CB4EA597463611B76426E8A49C381410999A7578B8.
sr. member
Activity: 432
Merit: 250
New development update is live with detailed information about new releases: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-14/

Awesome, I think this is exciting news for developers that want to use Counterparty.

Also it seems some people may have missed this, it's from the Counterparty Foundation news page:

Quote
One of the topics of the meeting was to discuss Foundation’s goals and agree on main objectives for the following months. After reviewing the current situation in the Counterparty community and the Bitcoin ecosystem, as well as discussing the benefits of each potential area of focus, the Board decided on the following goals to be fulfilled in the next six months:

    Finish the development of Smart Contracts, prepare for the official launch on mainnet, and drive global awareness.
    Finish the development of the desktop wallet.
    Pursue mobile wallet integration.
    Work with exchanges on XCP integration.
    Start preparing Counterparty events and educational courses.


http://counterpartyfoundation.org/notes-from-the-second-counterparty-foundation-board-meeting/
full member
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Counterparty General Manager
New development update is live with detailed information about new releases: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-14/
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
Main benefits:
- Clear distinction between block explorer and wallet dependencies: Applications like CW not needs any more to have a running Wallet in the server. This mades possible for instance to add support for BTCD very easily. Also light wallet is easiest to develop with this architecture: you can use a distant block explorer (like BCI) and a local light wallet (like pyrpcwallet)
- Clear distinction between applications and library: One can develop easily an alternative CLI or GUI (or any other "Crypto Application") just by using `counterparty-lib` as a classical Python library. Also `counterparty-lib` contains now only code related to the protocol, this makes clearer what should be covered by the test suite in priority, and in general makes easier to maintain the "core" code.
In short this update is another step forward to make Counterparty the standard framework to develop Bitcoin 2.0 Applications.


I am really liking the separation of the core counterpartyd into a separate library. Its really slick.. +1.  The standalone command line tools are also great.  Thank you !
sr. member
Activity: 432
Merit: 250
Huh what BTCD  Huh

BTCD is an alternative implementation of a Bitcoin full node (like Bitcoin Core formerly known as Bitcoind).

These current improvements to Counterparty are purely structural and make the entire implementation more 'modular'. In very simple terms this makes it much more friendly to developers, by breaking up the structure of the code into separate 'compartments'. You might need one part, but not the other. You might to connect one with something, but not something else. Etc. It also makes it clear what part of the code is fragile to change, and what can be changed freely.

This is a direct response to various concerns voiced by the community, as some projects and developers faced challenges. This move towards a 'plug-in' mentality, clarity and expansion is essentially a statement by the developers showing that Counterparty is not a standalone 'program'. Counterparty is an open-source protocol that invites developers to experiment and explore.



As JahPowerBit said, You can make light wallets, GUIs and applications with much less effort now.

For people following the Counterparty project on github (something I really recommend), you may have noticed that documentation is being completely redone as well. https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP

It's easy to deduce that this is a clear effort in speeding up the development of 3rd party applications, reducing the learning curve and risk for new developers, and creating a more stable platform.

Let's get coding, party people Cool

legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
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