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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 170. (Read 1276789 times)

hero member
Activity: 647
Merit: 510
Counterpartying
I think CounterWallet is compliant as far as gambling goes (abides by some relevant national/regional anti-gambling laws by enforcing geo-ip restrictions)

Can anyone confirm this?  If so, I'd consider it more great news as we wade into regulation.

Confirmed.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
I think CounterWallet is compliant as far as gambling goes (abides by some relevant national/regional anti-gambling laws by enforcing geo-ip restrictions)

Can anyone confirm this?  If so, I'd consider it more great news as we wade into regulation.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
This means that when Medici becomes a reality, it will be the first and only crypto currency stock market that the SEC will have officially approved.

What could be bigger than that?  Still, I'm very curious about the role the XCP coin will play in Medici, if any.  I'm also a bit concerned that we've been providing betting/gambling services.

I think CounterWallet is compliant as far as gambling goes (abides by some relevant national/regional anti-gambling laws by enforcing geo-ip restrictions)
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
I tend to agree more with the philosophical viewpoint of Andreas which is that due to the fact that as far as western nations are concerned, purchasing ability is not exactly super enhanced by switching from say a credit card transaction to bitcoin transaction (relatively speaking). Thus, the true wide adoption waiting for crypto currency technology will most likely come from the various developing nations who do "NEED" something like bitcoin because in comparison their local currency or economic system is just trash.

If we're talking about crypto-as-a-currency (not to be confused with crypto), then I agree.


You mention having boots on the ground doing the dirty work and I agree completely, but it's not about engaging regulation, it's going to be about Down-Teching the bitcoin technology itself. As in making it SOOO easy and simple to use and understand crypto currencies that even some guy in a remote part of the world can simply use a Nokia cell phone and basically become the bank of his village...  This is the sort of thing Andreas Antonopoulos talks about and I have to agree that making this technology simpler will increase real adoption WAYYY quicker than trying to get in bed with regulators.

Why not both?  Crypto has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
full member
Activity: 176
Merit: 100
Ain't no party like a Counterparty!
It's a steep learning curve trying to really grasp what these new protocols like Counterparty and Ethereum are actually bringing to the table but once you start to see it and it becomes this clear picture I can assure you that you won't say that "we've been providing gambling services" because counterparty doesn't provide any service at all. It's an open source code which anyone can use. Trying to say we provide gambling services is like saying the internet provides recruiting services for ISIS or other terrorist organization thus perhaps we should shut down or criminalize the internet or facebook? Negative, we shut down the perpetrators of illegal or counter productive activity not the protocol itself because the protocol is innocent.

As you know, that is an extremely common point of view amongst cryptofolk.  It is, in my opinion, naive at best and detrimental at worst.  Crypto works but in order for it to work better, practical factors like regulation must be engaged.  Thinking big is great but in order to get there from here, we need boots on the ground doing the dirty work of connecting the dots.  Fortunately, people like Patrick Byrne seem to be doing exactly that.


To call my point of view naive is a bit much, in essence you simply disagree and that is fine, you can disagree without badmouthing the opposition. I tend to agree more with the philosophical viewpoint of Andreas which is that due to the fact that as far as western nations are concerned, purchasing ability is not exactly super enhanced by switching from say a credit card transaction to bitcoin transaction (relatively speaking). Thus, the true wide adoption waiting for crypto currency technology will most likely come from the various developing nations who do "NEED" something like bitcoin because in comparison their local currency or economic system is just trash.

You mention having boots on the ground doing the dirty work and I agree completely, but it's not about engaging regulation, it's going to be about Down-Teching the bitcoin technology itself. As in making it SOOO easy and simple to use and understand crypto currencies that even some guy in a remote part of the world can simply use a Nokia cell phone and basically become the bank of his village...  This is the sort of thing Andreas Antonopoulos talks about and I have to agree that making this technology simpler will increase real adoption WAYYY quicker than trying to get in bed with regulators.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
It's a steep learning curve trying to really grasp what these new protocols like Counterparty and Ethereum are actually bringing to the table but once you start to see it and it becomes this clear picture I can assure you that you won't say that "we've been providing gambling services" because counterparty doesn't provide any service at all. It's an open source code which anyone can use. Trying to say we provide gambling services is like saying the internet provides recruiting services for ISIS or other terrorist organization thus perhaps we should shut down or criminalize the internet or facebook? Negative, we shut down the perpetrators of illegal or counter productive activity not the protocol itself because the protocol is innocent.

As you know, that is an extremely common point of view amongst cryptofolk.  It is, in my opinion, naive at best and detrimental at worst.  Crypto works but in order for it to work better, practical factors like regulation must be engaged.  Thinking big is great but in order to get there from here, we need boots on the ground doing the dirty work of connecting the dots.  Fortunately, people like Patrick Byrne seem to be doing exactly that.
hero member
Activity: 647
Merit: 510
Counterpartying
legendary
Activity: 2002
Merit: 1040
I bought some XCP on Polo and am wondering what the best way to store them off exchange is?
full member
Activity: 176
Merit: 100
Ain't no party like a Counterparty!
This means that when Medici becomes a reality, it will be the first and only crypto currency stock market that the SEC will have officially approved.

What could be bigger than that?  Still, I'm very curious about the role the XCP coin will play in Medici, if any.  I'm also a bit concerned that we've been providing betting/gambling services.

I still think that the concept of what exactly Counterparty is still eludes even many of those who support it. But it's probably also because the concept of cryptographic currency is still such a huge learning curve to most. 10 months ago I didn't understand bitcoin at all, I do tech support for a graphics card manufacturer called XFX and had been hearing about bitcoin and litecoin constantly from customers who kept breaking our products while trying to mine with them so I got interested. But I have always had a kind of Libertarian mindset and open minded to disruptive theories etc... So I kind of pulled an Antonopoulos, disappeared from many of my friends and have really immersed myself not just in the community of digital currency, but have spent every day from the ground up absorbing traditional and alternative knowledge concepts about economics, computer science(of which I'm least adept at), and philosophy as these 3 categories of thought are what is necessary to have a proper grasp of the essentials of how crypto currency is actually changing the world.

It's a steep learning curve trying to really grasp what these new protocols like Counterparty and Ethereum are actually bringing to the table but once you start to see it and it becomes this clear picture I can assure you that you won't say that "we've been providing gambling services" because counterparty doesn't provide any service at all. It's an open source code which anyone can use. Trying to say we provide gambling services is like saying the internet provides recruiting services for ISIS or other terrorist organization thus perhaps we should shut down or criminalize the internet or facebook? Negative, we shut down the perpetrators of illegal or counter productive activity not the protocol itself because the protocol is innocent.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
This means that when Medici becomes a reality, it will be the first and only crypto currency stock market that the SEC will have officially approved.

What could be bigger than that?  Still, I'm very curious about the role the XCP coin will play in Medici, if any.  I'm also a bit concerned that we've been providing betting/gambling services.
full member
Activity: 176
Merit: 100
Ain't no party like a Counterparty!
Confused about the whole SEC business. Still holding my burned coins but wondering whether I made a mistake of not cashing in.

I love the technology and the developers, but these regulations may be  a huge problem Undecided

You may be making a huge mistake holding. You are welcome to contact me if you wish to offload your burned coins in one go before they plunge to zero, though.  Wink

I'll take half of those mistaken burned coins you have.

On a serious note the SEC business is about punishing companies (not technologies) that sell equity/stocks without being licensed to. I'm not going to comment on any other companies selling crypto equity illegally but I will say this, of all companies considering this, "Project Medici" being headed by CEO of Overstock, is a project which is actually going through the proper regulatory channels "before" issuing their crypto-equity virtual stock exchange.

This means that when Medici becomes a reality, it will be the first and only crypto currency stock market that the SEC will have officially approved.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
Confused about the whole SEC business. Still holding my burned coins but wondering whether I made a mistake of not cashing in.

I love the technology and the developers, but these regulations may be  a huge problem Undecided

You may be making a huge mistake holding. You are welcome to contact me if you wish to offload your burned coins in one go before they plunge to zero, though.  Wink
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
sr. member
Activity: 432
Merit: 250
Confused about the whole SEC business. Still holding my burned coins but wondering whether I made a mistake of not cashing in.

I love the technology and the developers, but these regulations may be a huge problem Undecided

There is no information yet. Consider that in the end the regulations cannot affect the technology itself. And as long as the Bitcoin network exists, Counterparty will keep working. It's a minor setback but not a huge problem. Anyone seriously investing in this technology should have been able to see this coming.

In the end, places exist outside of the U.S, and there are many uses for tokens which do not fall under any regulation anywhere. I think to see what is occurring as an end of the world scenario shows a lack of resolve or ulterior motives.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
Confused about the whole SEC business. Still holding my burned coins but wondering whether I made a mistake of not cashing in.

I love the technology and the developers, but these regulations may be  a huge problem Undecided

The question is: how much patience do you have? do you believe that within, say 3-5 years the blockchain technology will be REALLY enabled and clear to all, and ultimately become main stream?

if you do, then this can be an early entry at ground floor level to something special, and like me, you should keep your burned coins. if not, then sell for 800% and move on.

this should be viewed as a marathon not a 100M dash, and not even a one mile race.

Personally, I think that if someone thinks that the regulatory hurdle will take "months", they are fulling themselves. 2-3 years is more like it. 

i agree with this assessment.

also we need to keep in mind that there are other jurisdictions in play.  it is possible that the US may take a few years, however smaller jurisdictions who also see this opportunity and are able to react quicker could jump the gun. 

something like this could be a big money maker for some place like the Isle of Man, or some place in one of the EU countries that have a regional/national exchange and want to expand their footprint. Perhaps Finland or Netherlands.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Confused about the whole SEC business. Still holding my burned coins but wondering whether I made a mistake of not cashing in.

I love the technology and the developers, but these regulations may be  a huge problem Undecided

The question is: how much patience do you have? do you believe that within, say 3-5 years the blockchain technology will be REALLY enabled and clear to all, and ultimately become main stream?

if you do, then this can be an early entry at ground floor level to something special, and like me, you should keep your burned coins. if not, then sell for 800% and move on.

this should be viewed as a marathon not a 100M dash, and not even a one mile race.

Personally, I think that if someone thinks that the regulatory hurdle will take "months", they are fulling themselves. 2-3 years is more like it. 
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Confused about the whole SEC business. Still holding my burned coins but wondering whether I made a mistake of not cashing in.

I love the technology and the developers, but these regulations may be  a huge problem Undecided
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
while i was speaking at the American Banker conference on digital currencies in NYC in July 2014, i made the argument for how blockchain technologies actually allow for more safety and automation of regulatory rules for trading securities which is good for investors as well as good for gov't regulators to not  have to an open view into the software and network to know that certain rules function as they should, are enforced and are transparent to all market participants.

i mentioned how we had a system in place now that is not transparent built on the work of a guy who was chairmen of one of the major exchanges who defrauded people of billions.

there were people there from the NY DFS and the Federal Reserve, and while I am not a mind reader I think some of them found it interesting that it is possible to build a public resources and infrastructure to encapsulate certain rules to ensure that everyone is playing on a level field.

Imagine a world where corruption is not possible.
Those with vision will walk toward this world one step at a time.
Counterparty has cleared the path, and given it wheels.

As the old world fades into the past, the work of government becomes less necessary, their job done before they awake and so have less need of our taxes and time.

exactly.  and i believe that there are people, who are public servants, who think strategically and are enlightened to the point of realizing that laws must make the leap from being enforced by pen, paper and force to digital rights and enforcement; and we are seeing the very first wave of this.  these protocols that we are building are the building blocks themselves of digital private arbitration courts that consenting parties agree to when they enter.

regarding legislation what really needs to happen is similar to what happened with the Internet in the early days, meaning a relative minimalist, hands off approach where the federal and state enforcement arms are dealing with basic blocking and tackling of simple concepts such as fraud, misrepresentation, theft, etc.  the rest can be handled by private civil contract.

the Securities Act of 33/34 needs to be amended to reflect this. and as i mentioned in another chat those laws are from a generation where most Americans who were old enough to invest were relatively poorly educated (lacking even high school degrees) and where information flow (googling "is foocoin a scam?") was fragmented and slow creating informational and judgement dissonance in the investing public.

hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
Can't believe no one's posted this Overstock.com conference call transcript from Oct. 23 (found here: http://investors.overstock.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=131091&p=irol-calendar) :

Patrick Byrne - Overstock.com Inc. - CEO

Mark Griffin - Overstock.com Inc. - SVP & General Counsel
It's hard. We haven't had the initial discussions. The framework is going to be difficult. It is a paradigm shift for these regulatory agencies, so it's hard to predict.
....
Buy.

JL

Sidechains and bitcoin 2.0 may allow the insertion of ByLaws into the code enforcing regulation from the start.

If I were a blockchain and my task was used solely for machine to machine transactions and if I could prove that with a real time blockchain and a machine coin I should be given a bill of clear sailing by the regulators.

If I'm using name coin and my public transit reputation is clear, i want to be in the pre-approved boarding line at the airport - that's not money.

So Lawsky doesn't have to wait for this either, he can come out and state... (pardon my exaggerations here) if you can prove on a blockchain that you've provided DNA, fingerprinting, eye-mapping, a bond from your bank account, proof of insurance, proof of assets, recent mental and health evaluations, well you can come buy me lunch at my office and I'll take you on a tour - that's not money.

Regulators should provide the entire scale, top to bottom, if you provide proof of this, you will have access to that.
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