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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 185. (Read 1276789 times)

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
It's better to until the proposal to reduce bitcoind initial download size mentioned by Gavin recently has been implemented. Otherwise, downloading more than 20G bytes itself is formidable already.
If you're talking about the invertible bloom filter stuff, that's not about reducing the size of the block chain but is about reducing the amount of data that needs to propagate when a new block is found. Bloom filters are as far as I know part of the push for an SPV client. This stuff is better discussed outside of this thread though as it is not specific to Counterparty.
No, I am talking about this https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/a-scalability-roadmap/
The download is still 20 GB even if you discard most of it later.
I think a node can start working after downloading the header (around 25M) and the recent hundreds of blocks (around 200M). Then only UTXO data is needed to verify the transactions and they can be obtained from peers on demand. The UTXO data can be verified by a hash embedded in all new blocks. The clients certainly still need to store some data to secure the whole blockchain, but this can be done progressively and in the background.

From Gavin's blog:
Quote
After that, initial block chain download can be further optimized to ask peers directly for the UTXO set instead of reconstructing it by asking them for the entire history of the blockchain. The risk would be that they lie about what is spent and unspent, to try to get you to accept invalid transactions or create invalid blocks if you are mining. The best solution for that problem is to embed a “UTXO commitment” (a hash of all of the data in the UTXO set) into blocks, and adding a new consensus rule that any such commitment must be valid for the block to be valid.

Quote
The Future Looks Bright
So some future Bitcoin enthusiast or professional sysadmin would download and run software that did the following to get up and running quickly:

  Connect to peers, just as is done today.

  Download headers for the best chain from its peers (tens of megabytes; will take at most a few minutes)
  
  Download enough full blocks to handle and reasonable blockchain re-organization (a few hundred should be plenty, which will take perhaps an hour).

  Ask a peer for the UTXO set, and check it against the commitment made in the blockchain.
From this point on, it is a fully-validating node. If disk space is scarce, it can delete old blocks from disk.

Anyway, let's hope the 0.9.x be applied widely as soon as possible, so that OP_RETURN can be used to reduce UTXO set.

BTW, I've heard there's a way to spend those multi-sig transactions used in encoding XCP transactions. Is that true or not?

Yep: http://redeem.bitwatch.co/
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
It's better to until the proposal to reduce bitcoind initial download size mentioned by Gavin recently has been implemented. Otherwise, downloading more than 20G bytes itself is formidable already.
If you're talking about the invertible bloom filter stuff, that's not about reducing the size of the block chain but is about reducing the amount of data that needs to propagate when a new block is found. Bloom filters are as far as I know part of the push for an SPV client. This stuff is better discussed outside of this thread though as it is not specific to Counterparty.
No, I am talking about this https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/a-scalability-roadmap/
The download is still 20 GB even if you discard most of it later.
I think a node can start working after downloading the header (around 25M) and the recent hundreds of blocks (around 200M). Then only UTXO data is needed to verify the transactions and they can be obtained from peers on demand. The UTXO data can be verified by a hash embedded in all new blocks. The clients certainly still need to store some data to secure the whole blockchain, but this can be done progressively and in the background.

From Gavin's blog:
Quote
After that, initial block chain download can be further optimized to ask peers directly for the UTXO set instead of reconstructing it by asking them for the entire history of the blockchain. The risk would be that they lie about what is spent and unspent, to try to get you to accept invalid transactions or create invalid blocks if you are mining. The best solution for that problem is to embed a “UTXO commitment” (a hash of all of the data in the UTXO set) into blocks, and adding a new consensus rule that any such commitment must be valid for the block to be valid.

Quote
The Future Looks Bright
So some future Bitcoin enthusiast or professional sysadmin would download and run software that did the following to get up and running quickly:

  Connect to peers, just as is done today.

  Download headers for the best chain from its peers (tens of megabytes; will take at most a few minutes)
  
  Download enough full blocks to handle and reasonable blockchain re-organization (a few hundred should be plenty, which will take perhaps an hour).

  Ask a peer for the UTXO set, and check it against the commitment made in the blockchain.
From this point on, it is a fully-validating node. If disk space is scarce, it can delete old blocks from disk.

Anyway, let's hope the 0.9.x be applied widely as soon as possible, so that OP_RETURN can be used to reduce UTXO set.

BTW, I've heard there's a way to spend those multi-sig transactions used in encoding XCP transactions. Is that true or not?
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
It's better to until the proposal to reduce bitcoind initial download size mentioned by Gavin recently has been implemented. Otherwise, downloading more than 20G bytes itself is formidable already.
If you're talking about the invertible bloom filter stuff, that's not about reducing the size of the block chain but is about reducing the amount of data that needs to propagate when a new block is found. Bloom filters are as far as I know part of the push for an SPV client. This stuff is better discussed outside of this thread though as it is not specific to Counterparty.
No, I am talking about this https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/a-scalability-roadmap/
The download is still 20 GB even if you discard most of it later.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
It's better to until the proposal to reduce bitcoind initial download size mentioned by Gavin recently has been implemented. Otherwise, downloading more than 20G bytes itself is formidable already.
If you're talking about the invertible bloom filter stuff, that's not about reducing the size of the block chain but is about reducing the amount of data that needs to propagate when a new block is found. Bloom filters are as far as I know part of the push for an SPV client. This stuff is better discussed outside of this thread though as it is not specific to Counterparty.
No, I am talking about this https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/a-scalability-roadmap/
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
Can anyone explain me where i find the XCP wallet? I bought some XCP on BTER and want to put it cold storage.
I only see github links but i cant compile.

https://counterwallet.io/

ok so this is a web wllet.

is that decentralized peer 2 peer or is this hosted? sorry for my mistakes but im not so good in tech

It's not hosted; the private keys are generated client-side.

we need a simple to install desktop version.   c annot beleive it's centralised on a website!

Your password never goes to the site. it stays on your machine and the wallet is opened through some hash trickery or something. Nobody ever has access to your private key, except you.

Not impressed. You'r still putting all your trust in that website to submit transactions correctly and fairly for you.  What ever happened to a wallet that you can run on your own machine?
If you wish to have this level of control, install counterpartyd. You need bitcoind or bitcoin-qt running on the same machine and have to do a bit of configuration. http://counterpartyd-build.readthedocs.org/en/latest/BuildingFromSource.html

As I said from the begining, I want and easy to install wallet with decentralized exchange GUI, not a buch of clunky command-line interfaces.

That does not exist yet, please check back later. Sorry for the run around.
It's better to wait until the proposal to reduce bitcoind initial download size mentioned by Gavin recently has been implemented. Otherwise, downloading more than 20G bytes itself is formidable already.
hero member
Activity: 647
Merit: 510
Counterpartying
Can anyone explain me where i find the XCP wallet? I bought some XCP on BTER and want to put it cold storage.
I only see github links but i cant compile.

https://counterwallet.io/

ok so this is a web wllet.

is that decentralized peer 2 peer or is this hosted? sorry for my mistakes but im not so good in tech

It's not hosted; the private keys are generated client-side.

we need a simple to install desktop version.   c annot beleive it's centralised on a website!

Your password never goes to the site. it stays on your machine and the wallet is opened through some hash trickery or something. Nobody ever has access to your private key, except you.

Not impressed. You'r still putting all your trust in that website to submit transactions correctly and fairly for you.  What ever happened to a wallet that you can run on your own machine?
If you wish to have this level of control, install counterpartyd. You need bitcoind or bitcoin-qt running on the same machine and have to do a bit of configuration. http://counterpartyd-build.readthedocs.org/en/latest/BuildingFromSource.html

As I said from the begining, I want and easy to install wallet with decentralized exchange GUI, not a buch of clunky command-line interfaces.

That does not exist yet, please check back later. Sorry for the run around.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
Can anyone explain me where i find the XCP wallet? I bought some XCP on BTER and want to put it cold storage.
I only see github links but i cant compile.

https://counterwallet.io/

ok so this is a web wllet.

is that decentralized peer 2 peer or is this hosted? sorry for my mistakes but im not so good in tech

It's not hosted; the private keys are generated client-side.

we need a simple to install desktop version.   c annot beleive it's centralised on a website!

Your password never goes to the site. it stays on your machine and the wallet is opened through some hash trickery or something. Nobody ever has access to your private key, except you.

Not impressed. You'r still putting all your trust in that website to submit transactions correctly and fairly for you.  What ever happened to a wallet that you can run on your own machine?
If you wish to have this level of control, install counterpartyd. You need bitcoind or bitcoin-qt running on the same machine and have to do a bit of configuration. http://counterpartyd-build.readthedocs.org/en/latest/BuildingFromSource.html

As I said from the begining, I want and easy to install wallet with decentralized exchange GUI, not a buch of clunky command-line interfaces.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
... last time I checked, transactions with OP_RETURN outputs take significantly longer to get included in a block.

I can confirm this: the confirmation delay is still an issue, even today.

because most miners do not like to include op_return tx ?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1026
... last time I checked, transactions with OP_RETURN outputs take significantly longer to get included in a block.

I can confirm this: the confirmation delay is still an issue, even today.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
As far as I know, simple send is already encoded as 40 bytes OP-RETURN, but will only be put into the counter wallet when majority of nodes and mining pools use 0.9.x

hmmphh... I am not too sure but I don't remember seeing an OP_return in the output script of the send transactions

The code is there in counterpartyd to automatically use OP_RETURN when the data are less than 40 bytes in length, but the feature is turned off because, last time I checked, transactions with OP_RETURN outputs take significantly longer to get included in a block. You can force the use of OP_RETURN, however, with the encoding CLI argument and API parameter.
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
As far as I know, simple send is already encoded as 40 bytes OP-RETURN, but will only be put into the counter wallet when majority of nodes and mining pools use 0.9.x

hmmphh... I am not too sure but I don't remember seeing an OP_return in the output script of the send transactions
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
Can anyone explain me where i find the XCP wallet? I bought some XCP on BTER and want to put it cold storage.
I only see github links but i cant compile.

https://counterwallet.io/

ok so this is a web wllet.

is that decentralized peer 2 peer or is this hosted? sorry for my mistakes but im not so good in tech

It's not hosted; the private keys are generated client-side.

we need a simple to install desktop version.   c annot beleive it's centralised on a website!

Your password never goes to the site. it stays on your machine and the wallet is opened through some hash trickery or something. Nobody ever has access to your private key, except you.


Not impressed. You'r still putting all your trust in that website to submit transactions correctly and fairly for you.  What ever happened to a wallet that you can run on your own machine?
It is a wallet run on your own machine. Just the programming language is JavaScript and the browser is the interpreter. A program written in Other language will not be any safer. That said, an independent wallet is still a good plus. Maybe based on WebKit so less extra work to do.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
One good thing that will come out of this that BTC cartel will realize that XCP is actually enhancing its usability. We will have less of Lucas Jr. types trying to police the transactions.

Actually Eligius (Luke Jr pool) is the first to process OP_RETURN 80 bytes transactions.

Wow, didn't know that. I remember him coming over in this thread several months back and being very aggressive and threatening. That was when I realized the problems of BTC centralization by the cartel.
Counterparty is still in the blacklist of his bitcoind.
Only the format harmful to Bitcoin. Didn't you change to OP_RETURN months ago?

For all of the transactions to work they need 80 bytes. Some way along if I recall correctly, there was an attempt to put certain transactions through with an OP_Return (40 bytes) but that was shelved aside as the transactions were taking longer than usual (possibly due to miners blocking/not processing OP_Return ??)

I am assuming that once the OP_Return (80 bytes) is "mainstream" the shift to using OP_Return will occur
As far as I know, simple send is already encoded as 40 bytes OP-RETURN, but will only be put into the counter wallet when majority of nodes and mining pools use 0.9.x
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
One good thing that will come out of this that BTC cartel will realize that XCP is actually enhancing its usability. We will have less of Lucas Jr. types trying to police the transactions.

Actually Eligius (Luke Jr pool) is the first to process OP_RETURN 80 bytes transactions.

Wow, didn't know that. I remember him coming over in this thread several months back and being very aggressive and threatening. That was when I realized the problems of BTC centralization by the cartel.
Counterparty is still in the blacklist of his bitcoind.
Only the format harmful to Bitcoin. Didn't you change to OP_RETURN months ago?

Nice to see that you have start accept Counterparty possibility with bitcoin. And great work for all CP devs with overstock what ever news there is coming I hope we will see that soon in price Smiley
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
Can anyone explain me where i find the XCP wallet? I bought some XCP on BTER and want to put it cold storage.
I only see github links but i cant compile.

https://counterwallet.io/

ok so this is a web wllet.

is that decentralized peer 2 peer or is this hosted? sorry for my mistakes but im not so good in tech

It's not hosted; the private keys are generated client-side.

we need a simple to install desktop version.   c annot beleive it's centralised on a website!

Your password never goes to the site. it stays on your machine and the wallet is opened through some hash trickery or something. Nobody ever has access to your private key, except you.

Not impressed. You'r still putting all your trust in that website to submit transactions correctly and fairly for you.  What ever happened to a wallet that you can run on your own machine?
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
One good thing that will come out of this that BTC cartel will realize that XCP is actually enhancing its usability. We will have less of Lucas Jr. types trying to police the transactions.

Actually Eligius (Luke Jr pool) is the first to process OP_RETURN 80 bytes transactions.

Wow, didn't know that. I remember him coming over in this thread several months back and being very aggressive and threatening. That was when I realized the problems of BTC centralization by the cartel.
Counterparty is still in the blacklist of his bitcoind.
Only the format harmful to Bitcoin. Didn't you change to OP_RETURN months ago?

For all of the transactions to work they need 80 bytes. Some way along if I recall correctly, there was an attempt to put certain transactions through with an OP_Return (40 bytes) but that was shelved aside as the transactions were taking longer than usual (possibly due to miners blocking/not processing OP_Return ??)

I am assuming that once the OP_Return (80 bytes) is "mainstream" the shift to using OP_Return will occur
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
One good thing that will come out of this that BTC cartel will realize that XCP is actually enhancing its usability. We will have less of Lucas Jr. types trying to police the transactions.

Actually Eligius (Luke Jr pool) is the first to process OP_RETURN 80 bytes transactions.

Wow, didn't know that. I remember him coming over in this thread several months back and being very aggressive and threatening. That was when I realized the problems of BTC centralization by the cartel.
Counterparty is still in the blacklist of his bitcoind.
Only the format harmful to Bitcoin. Didn't you change to OP_RETURN months ago?
sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 250
can anyone explain me. I currently have my XCP at counterewallet.io

what happends if this site goes down/offline? Can i still use my 12 words to retrieve my xcp ?
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
One good thing that will come out of this that BTC cartel will realize that XCP is actually enhancing its usability. We will have less of Lucas Jr. types trying to police the transactions.

Actually Eligius (Luke Jr pool) is the first to process OP_RETURN 80 bytes transactions.

Wow, didn't know that. I remember him coming over in this thread several months back and being very aggressive and threatening. That was when I realized the problems of BTC centralization by the cartel.
Counterparty is still in the blacklist of his bitcoind.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
One good thing that will come out of this that BTC cartel will realize that XCP is actually enhancing its usability. We will have less of Lucas Jr. types trying to police the transactions.

Actually Eligius (Luke Jr pool) is the first to process OP_RETURN 80 bytes transactions.

Wow, didn't know that. I remember him coming over in this thread several months back and being very aggressive and threatening. That was when I realized the problems of BTC centralization by the cartel.
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