Author

Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 552. (Read 1276933 times)

legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
Can somebody explain to me what we need these XCP for?

The way I understand it, they're converted BTC->XCP with a factor of 1k-1.5k. And now what? What are they for?

I see the value of counterparty as a protocol, decentralized exchange etc.
But I can make an offer on the market like GIVE 1 BTC; GET 1 WEED or whatever.
I don't see why there's need for another currency in all this. Except for the obvious pump and dump that's going on here of course.

I wondered about that aswell. As far as I understand it, the XCPs are needed to provide an escrow, which is not possible for BTC inside the counterparty protocol. But you could easily do the same with BTCs, right? Is this the concept of colored coins but with another currency that uses the BTC network? Or is there more to it?

I've been searching for such answer since MSC, "why is it needed". We convert fiat to bitcoin coupon to remove frictions, then somebody tells us that if we want to buy weed, we have to buy XCP coupon to remove another btc friction. I believe that another layer coupon is not needed for dex, as we could already embed information on the blockchain directly, but for some more sophisticate features it could be necessary or at least makes thing easier to implement.
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
Can somebody explain to me what we need these XCP for?

The way I understand it, they're converted BTC->XCP with a factor of 1k-1.5k. And now what? What are they for?

I see the value of counterparty as a protocol, decentralized exchange etc.
But I can make an offer on the market like GIVE 1 BTC; GET 1 WEED or whatever.
I don't see why there's need for another currency in all this. Except for the obvious pump and dump that's going on here of course.

I wondered about that aswell. As far as I understand it, the XCPs are needed to provide an escrow, which is not possible for BTC inside the counterparty protocol. But you could easily do the same with BTCs, right? Is this the concept of colored coins but with another currency that uses the BTC network? Or is there more to it?

This was an issue that was also raised with MasterCoin. I think it's a pretty interesting question.

There really isn't a need for XCP for the user-created assets. Like you said you could just trade your asset directly with BTC.

There is a need for XCP to serve as the currency for the betting exchange though. You could use user-created assets to bet with, but the creator of that asset has the ability to print an infinite amount of it. With XCP the protocol guarantees there will be a fixed amount.

The website is being buggy, and some FAQS aren't showing up, but this FAQ explains what XCP are necessary for.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
WARNING: Please stop using the Distributed Exchange for now. There's something funky going on with matched orders.


The owner of this address posted an order to sell 1000 XCP for 7.5 BTC: http://blockscan.com/address.aspx?q=1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa

Someone bought 100 XCP from him for 0.75 BTC and paid for them.

But it looks like the XCP seller was credited with an additional 100 XCP?

The XCP seller's address now shows an additional 100 XCP received and a current balance of 100 XCP.

WARNING: XCP seller referenced above is attempting to double-spend. DO NOT USE DISTRIBUTED EXCHANGE. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR BITCOINS.


I am only seeing a balance of 0 for the address 1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa which looks about right. The total received depends on the number of credits that is related to the address

And a credit of 100+ XCP for http://blockscan.com/address.aspx?q=134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp

Cheers

The balance is now 0 because the seller sent a new order to sell the 100 XCP he was wrongly credited.

Order: sell 100.01818182 XCP for 0.86 BTC at 0.0086 BTC/XCP in 1000 blocks with a required fee of 0.0001 BTC (4b8d3c3c...2d3c2425)

Effectively, both the buyer and seller received those 100 XCP, which is a double-spend.

This is no joke. I'm not editing my red caps until this is fixed.


As far as I can tell, there were two order matches, one of which 134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp paid for, and the other of which he didn't. The order match that expired, when it expired, recredited 100 XCP to 1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa; the other order match was paid for, however, and for that 134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp received his 100 XCP. If this summary is wrong, lay out what you think happened as clearly as possible, so that I can find any problems in the parsing.


Quote
Tx0    Tx0_Address    Forward Asset       Tx1_Address    Backward Asset    Remarks
3138   1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa   100.01818181 XCP      134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp   0.75 BTC   Invalid: expired awaiting BTC payment
3138   1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa   100.01818181 XCP      134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp   0.75 BTC   Valid

This is the bug right here. Both these btcpays are for the same order-match. There should only be one, not two.

What happened was counterpartyd recognized the first btcpay as valid. But then a second identical btcpay was generated, which should have been recognized as invalid: order already paid instead of invalid: expired.

Because it was recognized as Invalid: expired, the XCP were credited back to the seller even though they had already been credited to the buyer with the first Valid btcpay.


My interpretation is that there were two order matches with the same tx0 and different tx1s (and the Blockscan.com interface is just misleading). The btcpay was for the second order match.

EDIT: Note that there is a bug that I noticed yestereday where the size of an order is not replenished after a missing BTCpay. However, this won't cause any loss of funds.
full member
Activity: 219
Merit: 102
@phantomphreak needs to get up on an interview panel! Smiley Like on this video

BitShares(Protoshares)
Mastercoin
Ethereum

People from these foundations talk for over an hour. Very uhh.. confusing ? haha, but interesting.
http://youtu.be/w-9miCOsg4g

He is too busy actually coding  Smiley

Better if make best system what working not talk shit in some video  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1320
Merit: 1007
WARNING: Please stop using the Distributed Exchange for now. There's something funky going on with matched orders.


The owner of this address posted an order to sell 1000 XCP for 7.5 BTC: http://blockscan.com/address.aspx?q=1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa

Someone bought 100 XCP from him for 0.75 BTC and paid for them.

But it looks like the XCP seller was credited with an additional 100 XCP?

The XCP seller's address now shows an additional 100 XCP received and a current balance of 100 XCP.

WARNING: XCP seller referenced above is attempting to double-spend. DO NOT USE DISTRIBUTED EXCHANGE. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR BITCOINS.


Stop using your big red tard font. Contact Phantom or Xnova
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Can somebody explain to me what we need these XCP for?

The way I understand it, they're converted BTC->XCP with a factor of 1k-1.5k. And now what? What are they for?

I see the value of counterparty as a protocol, decentralized exchange etc.
But I can make an offer on the market like GIVE 1 BTC; GET 1 WEED or whatever.
I don't see why there's need for another currency in all this. Except for the obvious pump and dump that's going on here of course.
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
WARNING: Please stop using the Distributed Exchange for now. There's something funky going on with matched orders.


The owner of this address posted an order to sell 1000 XCP for 7.5 BTC: http://blockscan.com/address.aspx?q=1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa

Someone bought 100 XCP from him for 0.75 BTC and paid for them.

But it looks like the XCP seller was credited with an additional 100 XCP?

The XCP seller's address now shows an additional 100 XCP received and a current balance of 100 XCP.

WARNING: XCP seller referenced above is attempting to double-spend. DO NOT USE DISTRIBUTED EXCHANGE. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR BITCOINS.


I am only seeing a balance of 0 for the address 1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa which looks about right. The total received depends on the number of credits that is related to the address and does not necessary relate to the actual balance

And a credit of 100+ XCP for http://blockscan.com/address.aspx?q=134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp

Cheers
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
WARNING: Please stop using the Distributed Exchange for now. There's something funky going on with matched orders.


The owner of this address posted an order to sell 1000 XCP for 7.5 BTC: http://blockscan.com/address.aspx?q=1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa

Someone bought 100 XCP from him for 0.75 BTC and paid for them.

But it looks like the XCP seller was credited with an additional 100 XCP?

The XCP seller's address now shows an additional 100 XCP received and a current balance of 100 XCP.

WARNING: XCP seller referenced above is attempting to double-spend. DO NOT USE DISTRIBUTED EXCHANGE. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR BITCOINS.


Calm down!!! and stop the red CAPS, please edit your messages

Seems to be ok for me, for some reason his original order was recredited, see here

Quote
Tx0    Tx0_Address    Forward Asset       Tx1_Address    Backward Asset    Remarks
3138   1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa   100.01818181 XCP      134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp   0.75 BTC   Invalid: expired awaiting BTC payment
3138   1KDiHRwFsAEVEmmqQP7jR9GaBp8Wu7uLoa   100.01818181 XCP      134NJLMjRUf2D74L3myc7MXwJSAUgkqxyp   0.75 BTC   Valid

maybe because btcpay wasn't done fast enough ? It could be an issue (you could buy the whole sell order book and then cancel them without paying?)

On the other hand, it's nice to see XCP being bought @0.0075
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Guys, everyone please upvote this on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x01vn/counterparty_xcp_distributed_exchange_goes_live/

====
Code:
http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/counterparty-xcp-distributed-exchange-goes-live-on-bitcoin-network-454221.htm

http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/counterparty-xcp-distributed-exchange-goes-live-on-bitcoin-network-454221.htm

https://www.prbuzz.com/business-entrepreneur/205490-counterparty-xcp-distributed-exchange-goes-live-on-bitcoin-network.html

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Just saw this on Reddit, thanks for doing this.

Everyone please upvote on Reddit, lets spread the awareness of this financial innovation.
legendary
Activity: 1320
Merit: 1007
Guys, everyone please upvote this on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x01vn/counterparty_xcp_distributed_exchange_goes_live/

Getting this to the frontpage of /r/bitcoin will drastically boost XCP's awareness.

Please upvote this and leave a comment, as a way of helping the XCP community.

====
Code:
http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/counterparty-xcp-distributed-exchange-goes-live-on-bitcoin-network-454221.htm

http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/counterparty-xcp-distributed-exchange-goes-live-on-bitcoin-network-454221.htm

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legendary
Activity: 1320
Merit: 1007
I've got an "insufficient funds" error here. Both addresses have 0.01 BTC and positive XCP balances. Neither can send XCP to the other...
wallet passphrase is unlocked.

Using the counterpartyd.exe with server running

Quote
counterpartyd send --from=xxxxxx --to=xxxx --quantity=10 --asset=XCP
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\cx_Freeze\initscripts\Console3.py", line 2
7, in
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\counterpartyd.py", line 540, i
n
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\send.py", line 29, in crea
te
lib.exceptions.SendError: ['insufficient funds']


A side question, is it mandatory to use bitcoind or can you just run bitcoin-qt and unlock the wallet in the console to make send and order commands ?

Bitcoin-qt works fine
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
I've got an "insufficient funds" error here. Both addresses have 0.01 BTC and positive XCP balances. Neither can send XCP to the other...
wallet passphrase is unlocked.

Using the counterpartyd.exe with server running

Quote
counterpartyd send --from=xxxxxx --to=xxxx --quantity=10 --asset=XCP
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\cx_Freeze\initscripts\Console3.py", line 2
7, in
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\counterpartyd.py", line 540, i
n
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\send.py", line 29, in crea
te
lib.exceptions.SendError: ['insufficient funds']


A side question, is it mandatory to use bitcoind or can you just run bitcoin-qt and unlock the wallet in the console to make send and order commands ?
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
TO Bitcoin Magazine:

Quote
Hello! I thought your readers might be interested in the Counterparty Proof-of-Burn period ending. You all have previously mentioned Counterparty (XCP) in another article. Over $2 million in bitcoins were effectively destroyed in a “proof of burn.” Each destroyed bitcoin earned between 1000 and 1500 XCP.
 
Counterparty is also the first functioning distributed exchange to be released. See below!
 
Annoucement: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annxcp-counterparty-pioneering-peer-to-peer-finance-official-thread-395761
Website: https://counterparty.co/
Order Book: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArOlTj1IBke6dG1SRzRGRG5IQXpUV05XRFVGNlg0VGc#gid=0
Block Explorer: http://blockscan.com/
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtz2b/2124_btc_destroyed_in_proofofburn/

FROM Bitcoin Magazine:

Quote
David,

Thank you for your email! I have cc'd our writing team to take a look and see if someone can cover this.

Best regards,
Elizabeth
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
Hello,

  • I've build my own installer (Windows) from git source up-to-date.
  • BitcoinQT is launched and up-to-date

Then when I want to launch the counterpartyd.exe, I have this error:

Code:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\cx_Freeze\initscripts\Console3.py", line 2
7, in
    exec(code, m.__dict__)
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\counterpartyd.py", line 22, in
 
    from lib import (config, api, zeromq, util, exceptions, bitcoin, blocks)
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\zeromq.py", line 14, in odule>
    import zmq
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\zmq\__init__.py", line 29, in
    from zmq import core, devices
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\zmq\core\__init__.py", line 26, in >
    from zmq.core import (constants, error, message, context,
  File "ExtensionLoader_zmq_core_error.py", line 22, in
  File "ExtensionLoader_zmq_core_error.py", line 14, in __bootstrap__
ImportError: DLL load failed: Module not found

Can someone help ?

Does exist a better step by step Counterparty on windows installation ?

This is showing the same error after reinstalling by following the doc here:
- http://counterpartyd-build.readthedocs.org/en/latest/BuildingFromSource.html#on-windows

make sure you have all the pre-requisites installed as per the instructions
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1362
Hello,

  • I've build my own installer (Windows) from git source up-to-date.
  • BitcoinQT is launched and up-to-date

Then when I want to launch the counterpartyd.exe, I have this error:

Code:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\cx_Freeze\initscripts\Console3.py", line 2
7, in
    exec(code, m.__dict__)
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\counterpartyd.py", line 22, in
 
    from lib import (config, api, zeromq, util, exceptions, bitcoin, blocks)
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\zeromq.py", line 14, in odule>
    import zmq
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\zmq\__init__.py", line 29, in
    from zmq import core, devices
  File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\zmq\core\__init__.py", line 26, in >
    from zmq.core import (constants, error, message, context,
  File "ExtensionLoader_zmq_core_error.py", line 22, in
  File "ExtensionLoader_zmq_core_error.py", line 14, in __bootstrap__
ImportError: DLL load failed: Module not found

Can someone help ?

Does exist a better step by step Counterparty on windows installation ?

This is showing the same error after reinstalling by following the doc here:
- http://counterpartyd-build.readthedocs.org/en/latest/BuildingFromSource.html#on-windows
legendary
Activity: 1320
Merit: 1007
From Masterxchange

============

Hello Patel,

We are following closely the development of Counterparty.

For now, we are busy adding a couple of other coins and increasing overall usability on masterXchange but adding XCP is the next path we could follow if there is enough incentive.

Thanks for the heads up and please feel free to give us more suggestions in the future.

Eldido
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
Was there an error in how blockscan was calculating the amount of outstanding XCP? Yesterday the amount outstanding was 2,648,755.92 and today it is 2,638,379.28. Not a huge difference but I am just wondering what happened.

mtbitcoin did a purge, to bring the correct balances after some bug fixes

Thanks

I think whenever someone places an order or makes a bet those funds are deducted from balance as well

Yes, that is correct as stated in the previous post above. This is just a simple metric to see the overall transaction activity at any one time
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
Was there an error in how blockscan was calculating the amount of outstanding XCP? Yesterday the amount outstanding was 2,648,755.92 and today it is 2,638,379.28. Not a huge difference but I am just wondering what happened.

This is the total available balance as reported by the counterparty client (SUM(amount) from balances table). The available balance should vary from time to time depending on if any XCP is locked up in transactions like buy/sell/bet,etc ....or any XCP fees deducted

legendary
Activity: 1320
Merit: 1007
Can you put miners fee at 0.0002 for XCP transactions?
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
I'm quite sure that the benefits of building on Bitcoin, not the least of which are much increased development speed and security, do indeed outweigh the costs.

To expand on this a little, the biggest danger with Ethereum is that its scripting language is Turing Complete, and so it's defenses against any exploit conceivable are only as secure as the sandbox that contains the running scripts.

Here's an interesting discussion thread on the topic of Ethereum vs Bitcoin.

The post below by Adam Back is kind of a TL;DR about the dangers of Ethereum (though don't miss Gavin Andressen and Vitalin Buterik duking it out a bit further down the thread):

From another thread:

Thanks d'aniel.  My initial feeling is that Turing-completeness is not necessary for bitcoin and would very likely lead to unforeseen problems and instability (mostly related to the halting problem).  Money isn't a computer.

They [meaning Etherium] address halting by fee paying for interpreter cycles.  When the fee runs out the contract is stopped.

But there are obviously interpreter escape dangers, which are harder to contain for a stateful, looping, low level (byte code like) language.  Look at the history of java sandbox escapes.  People say that was mostly due to call outs to complex native library have to look through the (large!) CVE database on JVM to figure out the stats.  Also the pressure may have been lower.  If you get real money under it all kinds of resources and unrevealed 0-days can leak out of the woodwork and create the new target for grey and black hats some of whom are world class at this stuff.  Or even from national security network intrusion insiders with Snowden-level access or the people developing and selling grey market 0-day to the intelligence community etc.  Those people are fallible humans too - they may succum to the financial motive, or the people who developed and sold them the 0-days may find a new monetization model, or second use for them (they cant "forget" them after sale).

There have also been VM escapes from full hw abstraction vms (i mean not just API sandbox light linux-in-linux virtuozzo but actual whole OS in the container).

And finally bitcoin scripting is functional, stateless and non-looping (non TC in fact also) for a reason.  Bitcoin doesnt (and I think its intentional) have even extrospection.  There are grey-goo outcomes if you are not careful with even something as constrained as an extrospection op code to existing language.   There will be whole classes of not yet imagined grey goo opportunities lurking in a full TC language.  You cant easily systematically defend against whole classes of such issues without intentional constrained language.

Here's a thread started by Greg to explore grey-goo outcomes from extended scripting:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coincovenants-using-scip-signatures-an-amusingly-bad-idea-278122

Greg Maxwell also noted the elevated risk of forks developing.  If there is any deviation in script outcome and being more complex there is more risk there also.  eg tracking how many cycles through a JIT executed/CSE optimized etc version as super-majority of nodes MUST interpret the script to the same byte code instruction, or one version can return true, another false etc.

I discussed these risks with Vitalik and he is a very smart guy, so obviously they'll try to do what they can to contain them, but you know bitcoin is the highest assurance sw dev and QA risk on the planet by orders of magnitude.  So it maybe a time for risk containment rather than risk LoC and API size expansion, I am already worried on bitcoin about base band-processors hacks, 0-day OS and CPU hacks, and thinking a more zero-trust more air-gap model needs to be the objective.

If hypothetically ethereum grew to large adoption (litecoin level say) and then there was enough motivation and something failed hard, there are potential whole system value loss, hard fork and other failure modes.  It seems to have by design, ongoing higher surface area security & value safety risk

Also btw Dan Kaminsky said he spent 4 months trying to hack bitcoin (network stack, overflow on messages, the usual host-security 0-day discovery process) and he failed.  He's one of the best host security guys and the experience impressed him.  Its not a simple thing to make a network stack that bullet proof, most even hard core programmers cant do it.  You probably have to practice 0-day development to some depth to even understand fully the risks and defense landscape.  Bitcoin got there with a really solid start from Satoshi and a bootstrap period where other bugs were fixed before the pressure built up to $10b.

I am not going to comment for now on the funding model Smiley  They are somewhere between the others and I am sure Vitalik has his eye on actual innovation as well, because knowing him he lives for tech challenge.

I think anything that needs to be done, can be done in a bitcoin centric backwards compatible evolutionary way using eg 1-way peg and other related features while maintaining value firewalls between long term holders and people using newer features.

But clearly other than the security containment, zero-defect in flight once live, and grey-goo risks, Ethereum can create some fun self-extensibility with a loose analog of like introspection, late binding, eval and dynamically loadable code languages.  We do have to be clear that the cost is the towards opposite end of the spectrum, though lower than activeX and executing native code delivered over the network.  Fun possibilities but a big security job.

Adam


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