[ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer - page 162.

HomoHenning

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Quote from: notsofast on February 06, 2017, 01:07:50 PM

Quote from: mladen00 on February 06, 2017, 06:35:02 AM

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation with ours donation to EK and team.
Lanniester escaped from project and i dont know why would EK and team work free of charge.

Everybody can give (free will) 10-20% of personal shares to XEL fundation.

My suggestion: we can donate to fondation before genesis block will be out (we all can sign message and pm % of donations).

Can I please have a short review of exactly what happened with Lannister leaving the project and EK taking over (or, if I'm misunderstanding, a brief timeline)?

Has the raised BTC been paid/disbursed and fully allocated to developers as payment for the task of bringing XEL to the point of mainnet launch, and from that point, the project amounts to a community takeover?

lannister is offline since november. evel coded XEL for free.

HmmMAA

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Quote from: cryptoboy.architect on February 06, 2017, 01:51:37 PM

At the very least you need a place for community to collaborate. Not just on Github. Most projects have at least a Slack community and it does help a lot.

There is allready a slack channel , i don't remember who is the creator , you can sign here elasticfans.herokuapp.com

HomoHenning

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Quote from: cryptoboy.architect on February 06, 2017, 01:51:37 PM

Quote from: Evil-Knievel on February 06, 2017, 01:27:33 PM

I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.

Every project needs a leader - right now you are the leader, and the code is hosted on a centralized github.

Also for promo activities - it is hard to organize any marketing effort without a leader.

Doesn't even have to be a foundation - but the project could benefit from hiring some people to promote it, and not all talent is interested in having crypto as a reward for their effort. A foundation could take care of converting the asset so that it pays the talent.

At the very least you need a place for community to collaborate. Not just on Github. Most projects have at least a Slack community and it does help a lot.

leeder is a term for somebody who makes decisions and not the work. work can be done by anyone who want to contribute. decision can be done through voting. i think thats the message he wants to give us and i totally agree. that does not mean we cant have a foundation pool money for paying people. we could control this just by voting if we would have some code for it. just open a slack if you want btw

cryptoboy.architect

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Quote from: Evil-Knievel on February 06, 2017, 01:27:33 PM

I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.

Every project needs a leader - right now you are the leader, and the code is hosted on a centralized github.

Also for promo activities - it is hard to organize any marketing effort without a leader.

Doesn't even have to be a foundation - but the project could benefit from hiring some people to promote it, and not all talent is interested in having crypto as a reward for their effort. A foundation could take care of converting the asset so that it pays the talent.

At the very least you need a place for community to collaborate. Not just on Github. Most projects have at least a Slack community and it does help a lot.

Evil-Knievel

legendary

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I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.

notsofast

legendary

Activity: 1517

Merit: 1042

@notsofast

Quote from: mladen00 on February 06, 2017, 06:35:02 AM

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation with ours donation to EK and team.
Lanniester escaped from project and i dont know why would EK and team work free of charge.

Everybody can give (free will) 10-20% of personal shares to XEL fundation.

My suggestion: we can donate to fondation before genesis block will be out (we all can sign message and pm % of donations).

Can I please have a short review of exactly what happened with Lannister leaving the project and EK taking over (or, if I'm misunderstanding, a brief timeline)?

Has the raised BTC been paid/disbursed and fully allocated to developers as payment for the task of bringing XEL to the point of mainnet launch, and from that point, the project amounts to a community takeover?

cryptoboy.architect

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Activity: 513

Merit: 500

I think it would be great if more people become active in the community. It does help to have a more organized PR/launch.

Few questions/thoughts:

1. Do we have a slack? If not - let's have one created.
2. Roadmap with use cases - would be nice to make some slick infographics, so the public has an idea where this is going without having to read through 100s of pages in the thread
3. Exchanges integration should be easy if the RPC is the same as in NXT (which I assume it is, since it is the same code base). Still some guides for exchanges might be useful.
4. A separate forum might be good to setup as well, but for now a slack should suffice.
5. If the OP is nowhere to be found, do we have a way to update the first post? Perhaps it's time to create a new thread?

Perhaps a vote could be done by the stakeholders and dedicate % to setting up a foundation in order to cover costs for future efforts.

Velenar

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Quote from: Evil-Knievel on February 04, 2017, 05:30:25 PM

We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it!

I can not criticize the magnitude of your contributions, but really it would help to have an organized launch, with either you or one of the other top developers involved.

AFAIK, there is no strong reason otherwise, unless you're concerned about some kind of legal risks, which seem inapplicable.

Elastic can expand to a community of thousands over time after release, but, right now, there are just a handful of visitors to a bitcointalk thread, most casuals like me. There is not much of a community yet, only later.

Sure, I'd even try launching it myself if nobody else would, but I'd be the first to describe that as suboptimal, as I'd barely know what I was doing.

Quote from: mladen00 on February 06, 2017, 06:35:02 AM

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation

Even if your pre-release donation idea doesn't happen, publishing a pair of donation addresses would be good, one in Bitcoin and one in Elastic.

Funding to a foundation would help for further development and upkeep post-release.

I'm not the person to set such up, having no reputation, but someone else could.

mr.coinzy

hero member

Activity: 500

Merit: 507

@EK, first I wish to thank you and the rest of the developers for doing this amazing work so far!! Your effort is highly appreciated.

I would also like to ask of you to be involved in the launch later on when the time is right. You are talented, highly trusted, and very respected by all. I think that you are an important valued pillar for this project. I have no doubt that we will have the best launch if you are also involved in it as much as you can and wish to be.

The community will surely make efforts to push PR so the world sees this project and it's value as the gem it is.

Thank you for the update, exciting days await us all!

cyrixcer

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Activity: 524

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Quote from: neolinkhati on February 06, 2017, 08:03:58 AM

Quote from: Evil-Knievel on February 04, 2017, 05:30:25 PM

Hi Community,

I am writing you to give you a short overview of what we have done so far, why we have done it, and what (from our point of view) still has to be done - and when. I have been moving to a new town in the last days, so

First of all, we had a last-minute idea - the idea of introducing so called super nodes. The reasons were:

1. Since earlier everyone had to verify work, we were very limited: we had very strict constraints regarding the complexity and memory requirement of work packages, simply due to the reason that the weakest node still has to be able to verify everything in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, netsplits or node shootdowns would be possible with complex long running tasks. With super nodes we are more flexible: we can set strict requirements that a super node's hardware has to meet and so can allow programs that run longer and use more memory.
Supernodes are basically nodes that do the verification and have no incentive to cheat due to a huge deposit. Contrary to other "well hyped solutions" we do not rely on trust at all ... all calculations and decisions that the super nodes perform can be publicly verified by anyone. For example by the so called guard nodes. These are nodes that randomly cross-check a small fraction of jobs. If they detect that a super node lied, its deposit gets forfeited.

2. Also, earlier a bug in the implementation (causing an infinite loop for example) could halt the whole network since every node is execution the task. Now, the network is safe from this. Also, the super node software will have emergency stop mechanisms that would prevent bugs to crash anything. Again, this design has several benefits here. It's better if one supernode freezes for 15 seconds before it detects the anomaly than if every node in the network freezes for 15 seconds.

3. Also, and this is a PR benefit, the earlier design effectively executed foreign code on the own hardware. While it's super safe due to Elastic PL's nature (our own programming language that does not allow to program anything dangerous), managers who want to use Elastic in their commercial setting might get scared. Now, nobody but the supernodes has to execute anything.

So where are we?
--------------------

We have the code base done that incorporates the new logic into the core client. The supernode functionality is there (except one little detail still missing - the guard node logic). And we have the miner done which - since super nodes and miners execute the same code - can be used for both.

What is missing with deadline dates
----------------------------------------

The following packages are still missing and are planned (not promised) to be finished as follows (London time):

09.02.2017 - The core package with guard logic is finished and goes into code-review mode
12.02.2017 - The supernode extension was added to the miner so that it can be used to verify work of others
13.-14.02.2017 - I am offline
17.02.2017 - Guard node software is finished. Parallely, everything goes into testnet mode for heavy testing
18.02.2017 - Open discussion round here, about how things are working out and specially about the retargeting algorithm that we currently have (there were ideas how to get rid of it)
18-24.02.2017 - Grace period to fix problems that we found in the test net
26.02.2017 - I will have written all details about the system down (both technically and non technically) for those guys of you, who are responsible for the PR parts (website, video, whatever)
27.02.2017 - Last discussion here in the thread
28.02.2017 - Milestone freeze, first ready-to-use version should be finished by then. I (and all the others that work on the code) am/are just (an) interested code monkey/s who love/s fascinating tech. We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it! Remember: we are doing it for you guys, and not to run a company or something by ourselves. Just do with it whatever you like.

Disclaimer
----------------------------------------
We do not run anything, we do not take responsibility for anything. We code because we love coding, and if in doubt just suggest the appropriate changes and we can figure things out. Nobody forces anyone to use anything, and nobody promises anything. We code as good as we can, ... to reduce the likelihood of bugs (which always may or may not occur) we would appreciate to get more eyes on the code. Also: if you think you can do it better ... then just do it!

After everything works out, I am sure we can think about new cool features that pop into our heads.

Great news.
I can not wait to be on mainnet.

Elastic has great commercial potential.

It is the super star project in this year, let us see. ICO was funded with 700 BTC, the fund should be enough for future development, fortunately devs are very working hard, we are lucky investors.

by rallier

legendary

Activity: 1848

Merit: 1334

just in case

@EK, i appreciate your efforts. But community need your support for release... you know..
if you /or your team can keep going to develop bug fix etc., then release, it will be enough for community.

neolinkhati

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Premium

Quote from: Evil-Knievel on February 04, 2017, 05:30:25 PM

Hi Community,

I am writing you to give you a short overview of what we have done so far, why we have done it, and what (from our point of view) still has to be done - and when. I have been moving to a new town in the last days, so

First of all, we had a last-minute idea - the idea of introducing so called super nodes. The reasons were:

1. Since earlier everyone had to verify work, we were very limited: we had very strict constraints regarding the complexity and memory requirement of work packages, simply due to the reason that the weakest node still has to be able to verify everything in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, netsplits or node shootdowns would be possible with complex long running tasks. With super nodes we are more flexible: we can set strict requirements that a super node's hardware has to meet and so can allow programs that run longer and use more memory.
Supernodes are basically nodes that do the verification and have no incentive to cheat due to a huge deposit. Contrary to other "well hyped solutions" we do not rely on trust at all ... all calculations and decisions that the super nodes perform can be publicly verified by anyone. For example by the so called guard nodes. These are nodes that randomly cross-check a small fraction of jobs. If they detect that a super node lied, its deposit gets forfeited.

2. Also, earlier a bug in the implementation (causing an infinite loop for example) could halt the whole network since every node is execution the task. Now, the network is safe from this. Also, the super node software will have emergency stop mechanisms that would prevent bugs to crash anything. Again, this design has several benefits here. It's better if one supernode freezes for 15 seconds before it detects the anomaly than if every node in the network freezes for 15 seconds.

3. Also, and this is a PR benefit, the earlier design effectively executed foreign code on the own hardware. While it's super safe due to Elastic PL's nature (our own programming language that does not allow to program anything dangerous), managers who want to use Elastic in their commercial setting might get scared. Now, nobody but the supernodes has to execute anything.

So where are we?
--------------------

We have the code base done that incorporates the new logic into the core client. The supernode functionality is there (except one little detail still missing - the guard node logic). And we have the miner done which - since super nodes and miners execute the same code - can be used for both.

What is missing with deadline dates
----------------------------------------

The following packages are still missing and are planned (not promised) to be finished as follows (London time):

09.02.2017 - The core package with guard logic is finished and goes into code-review mode
12.02.2017 - The supernode extension was added to the miner so that it can be used to verify work of others
13.-14.02.2017 - I am offline
17.02.2017 - Guard node software is finished. Parallely, everything goes into testnet mode for heavy testing
18.02.2017 - Open discussion round here, about how things are working out and specially about the retargeting algorithm that we currently have (there were ideas how to get rid of it)
18-24.02.2017 - Grace period to fix problems that we found in the test net
26.02.2017 - I will have written all details about the system down (both technically and non technically) for those guys of you, who are responsible for the PR parts (website, video, whatever)
27.02.2017 - Last discussion here in the thread
28.02.2017 - Milestone freeze, first ready-to-use version should be finished by then. I (and all the others that work on the code) am/are just (an) interested code monkey/s who love/s fascinating tech. We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it! Remember: we are doing it for you guys, and not to run a company or something by ourselves. Just do with it whatever you like.

Disclaimer
----------------------------------------
We do not run anything, we do not take responsibility for anything. We code because we love coding, and if in doubt just suggest the appropriate changes and we can figure things out. Nobody forces anyone to use anything, and nobody promises anything. We code as good as we can, ... to reduce the likelihood of bugs (which always may or may not occur) we would appreciate to get more eyes on the code. Also: if you think you can do it better ... then just do it!

After everything works out, I am sure we can think about new cool features that pop into our heads.

Great news.
I can not wait to be on mainnet.

Elastic has great commercial potential.

wwdz99

sr. member

Activity: 243

Merit: 250

Quote from: Evil-Knievel on February 04, 2017, 05:30:25 PM

Hi Community,

I am writing you to give you a short overview of what we have done so far, why we have done it, and what (from our point of view) still has to be done - and when. I have been moving to a new town in the last days, so

First of all, we had a last-minute idea - the idea of introducing so called super nodes. The reasons were:

1. Since earlier everyone had to verify work, we were very limited: we had very strict constraints regarding the complexity and memory requirement of work packages, simply due to the reason that the weakest node still has to be able to verify everything in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, netsplits or node shootdowns would be possible with complex long running tasks. With super nodes we are more flexible: we can set strict requirements that a super node's hardware has to meet and so can allow programs that run longer and use more memory.
Supernodes are basically nodes that do the verification and have no incentive to cheat due to a huge deposit. Contrary to other "well hyped solutions" we do not rely on trust at all ... all calculations and decisions that the super nodes perform can be publicly verified by anyone. For example by the so called guard nodes. These are nodes that randomly cross-check a small fraction of jobs. If they detect that a super node lied, its deposit gets forfeited.

2. Also, earlier a bug in the implementation (causing an infinite loop for example) could halt the whole network since every node is execution the task. Now, the network is safe from this. Also, the super node software will have emergency stop mechanisms that would prevent bugs to crash anything. Again, this design has several benefits here. It's better if one supernode freezes for 15 seconds before it detects the anomaly than if every node in the network freezes for 15 seconds.

3. Also, and this is a PR benefit, the earlier design effectively executed foreign code on the own hardware. While it's super safe due to Elastic PL's nature (our own programming language that does not allow to program anything dangerous), managers who want to use Elastic in their commercial setting might get scared. Now, nobody but the supernodes has to execute anything.

So where are we?
--------------------

We have the code base done that incorporates the new logic into the core client. The supernode functionality is there (except one little detail still missing - the guard node logic). And we have the miner done which - since super nodes and miners execute the same code - can be used for both.

What is missing with deadline dates
----------------------------------------

The following packages are still missing and are planned (not promised) to be finished as follows (London time):

09.02.2017 - The core package with guard logic is finished and goes into code-review mode
12.02.2017 - The supernode extension was added to the miner so that it can be used to verify work of others
13.-14.02.2017 - I am offline
17.02.2017 - Guard node software is finished. Parallely, everything goes into testnet mode for heavy testing
18.02.2017 - Open discussion round here, about how things are working out and specially about the retargeting algorithm that we currently have (there were ideas how to get rid of it)
18-24.02.2017 - Grace period to fix problems that we found in the test net
26.02.2017 - I will have written all details about the system down (both technically and non technically) for those guys of you, who are responsible for the PR parts (website, video, whatever)
27.02.2017 - Last discussion here in the thread
28.02.2017 - Milestone freeze, first ready-to-use version should be finished by then. I (and all the others that work on the code) am/are just (an) interested code monkey/s who love/s fascinating tech. We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it! Remember: we are doing it for you guys, and not to run a company or something by ourselves. Just do with it whatever you like.

Disclaimer
----------------------------------------
We do not run anything, we do not take responsibility for anything. We code because we love coding, and if in doubt just suggest the appropriate changes and we can figure things out. Nobody forces anyone to use anything, and nobody promises anything. We code as good as we can, ... to reduce the likelihood of bugs (which always may or may not occur) we would appreciate to get more eyes on the code. Also: if you think you can do it better ... then just do it!

After everything works out, I am sure we can think about new cool features that pop into our heads.

Great updated! Canot wait to see u Milestone version. Grin

DomainMagnate

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Heard a lot about elastic everywhere and it got my attention.
I would like to invest in elastic.Any idea which exchange is it going to be listed after mainnet?
I hope I get to buy it cheap Grin

hagie

hero member

Activity: 792

Merit: 501

Quote from: ImI on February 04, 2017, 05:55:23 PM

Nice update!

What about malicious guard nodes? Lets say a guard node intentionally and falsely marks a supernode as a liar and so the supernode looses his XEL?

Maybe the supernode don't immediately loose it's xel but the payout is held in escrow/smartcontract until other supernodes verify. Or it must be some 3 out of 5 or 2 out of 3 check.
Regards

mladen00

legendary

Activity: 2124

Merit: 1013

K-ing®

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation with ours donation to EK and team.
Lanniester escaped from project and i dont know why would EK and team work free of charge.

Everybody can give (free will) 10-20% of personal shares to XEL fundation.

My suggestion: we can donate to fondation before genesis block will be out (we all can sign message and pm % of donations).

unvoid

hero member

Activity: 535

Merit: 500

Quote from: josegines on February 06, 2017, 05:03:25 AM

I have a doubt regarding the redeem, apologies if it is answered.
How do you sign a text in Omniwallet?
If I can not, where do you recommend that I export the wallet to be able to sign the text?

thank you very much

I don't know if omniwallet supports message sign but if not, you can try to export/backup your private key, import it to the desktop software (i.e. Electrum) and sign message there.

josegines

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 532

I have a doubt regarding the redeem, apologies if it is answered.
How do you sign a text in Omniwallet?
If I can not, where do you recommend that I export the wallet to be able to sign the text?

thank you very much

TrollPanda

member

Activity: 60

Merit: 10

Quote from: lizidev on February 06, 2017, 03:37:38 AM

Where to buy xel?
what the price?

You can't buy it yet, still on testnet. Should be released in March.

lizidev

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Where to buy xel?
what the price?

Topic: [ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer - page 162. (Read 450523 times)