[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - page 82.

sairon

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One does not simply mine Bitcoins

Quote from: alenevaa on March 25, 2014, 01:57:11 AM

Quote from: mhps on March 25, 2014, 12:15:39 AM

Quote from: Gorgoy on March 24, 2014, 07:58:07 PM

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

Yes, you can! But I want "to choose" too.

I'd like to have an option in wallet. You set the manual "threshold". After that splitted amount will never be less than "threshold". In another words, output will be splitted only if amount in PoS block greater than 2x"threshold".

It does make sense because if you have too many transaction in wallet for PoS you need more powerful CPU.

you can find the relevant stake generation code here: https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/blob/master/src/wallet.cpp#L1376

the nStakeSplitAge variable is set to 90 days and it seems like it's pretty important for some reason... (no idea why)
next at line #1475 the pos reward gets split into 2 outputs if the stake was younger than nStakeSplitAge (90 days)

0/10 would not recommend fiddling with the nStakeSplitAge variable without knowing exactly WHY that particular value was chosen in the first place (could be just a troll and/or a cool backdoor lol)

alenevaa

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Quote from: mhps on March 25, 2014, 12:15:39 AM

Quote from: Gorgoy on March 24, 2014, 07:58:07 PM

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

Yes, you can! But I want "to choose" too.

I'd like to have an option in wallet. You set the manual "threshold". After that splitted amount will never be less than "threshold". In another words, output will be splitted only if amount in PoS block greater than 2x"threshold".

It does make sense because if you have too many transaction in wallet for PoS you need more powerful CPU.

mhps

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Quote from: Gorgoy on March 24, 2014, 07:58:07 PM

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

mhps

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Quote from: ilostcoins on March 24, 2014, 10:43:55 AM

Quote from: mhps on March 23, 2014, 07:35:22 AM

Quote from: Groko on March 20, 2014, 09:49:33 PM

I personally don't think we (YACoin) should force people to keep their clients open all the time. And I am at a complete loss how POS is supposed to be some kind of security utopia, especially when POS it nearly killed us. We neutered POS at block 420000, so It's behaving itself nicely now.

From what I have read, the problem YAC had with POS is YAC (and its offsprings) specific. POS promises to offer solutions to problems with POW that will probably have pure POW coins killed. POS is very complex, however.

I think the problem is actually inherited from PPCoin. I seem to remember the code that calculate trust score in YAC was the same as what I saw in PPC (I'm not familiar with programming though Tongue

). The trust score issue just shows itself more clearly in YACoin because of wallet performance problems and having longer POW chains for POS block to orphan.

If PPC had this problem it would have been well known. Killerstorm said PPC didn't have the problem because PPC used the checkpoint. My impression is that checkpoint in PPC is seldom if ever used. So I guess I don't know well enough to tell.

Quote

I've always assumed interest paid is capped at 90 days because that's what I heard about PPCoin. Thank you for going through the code to find out.

Does the probability of finding POS block increase linearly with days between 30 and 90 but is independent of the quantity of coins in the chunk?

In PPC it is proportional to coin days, the number of coins in the stake multiplied by the number of days. Since there are only 60 POS blocks available at maximum every hour, if you only have small stakes your chance of getting one block is small. This discourage small stake holders from supporting the network by trying to find POS blocks.

Gorgoy

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Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

You are all awesome, I love YAC!!!!

ilostcoins

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Quote from: mhps on March 23, 2014, 07:35:22 AM

Quote from: Groko on March 20, 2014, 09:49:33 PM

I personally don't think we (YACoin) should force people to keep their clients open all the time. And I am at a complete loss how POS is supposed to be some kind of security utopia, especially when POS it nearly killed us. We neutered POS at block 420000, so It's behaving itself nicely now.

From what I have read, the problem YAC had with POS is YAC (and its offsprings) specific. POS promises to offer solutions to problems with POW that will probably have pure POW coins killed. POS is very complex, however.

I think the problem is actually inherited from PPCoin. I seem to remember the code that calculate trust score in YAC was the same as what I saw in PPC (I'm not familiar with programming though Tongue

). The trust score issue just shows itself more clearly in YACoin because of wallet performance problems and having longer POW chains for POS block to orphan.

Quote from: Groko on March 19, 2014, 09:19:20 PM

...

After mhps's comment I dug down into the code and came to the conclusion mhps was right. That is, a 1000 day old chunk of 100 coins will get get 1000 days worth of interest. And there is no limit to the number of days. If you don't open your client for 10 years, and YACoin is still around in 10 years, then you will get 10 years worth of interest.

However, the probability of finding a POS block for those 100 coins started at a low point at 30 days, and increased gradually until the coins got 90 days old. After 90 days the coin's continue to accrue interest, but the probability of finding a POS block for those coins stays at a constant maximum probability from day 90 until day 1000. If a POS block were found on day 1000, I would expect the interest to be (100)*(0.05)*(1000)/(365) or 13.698.

I've always assumed interest paid is capped at 90 days because that's what I heard about PPCoin. Thank you for going through the code to find out.

Does the probability of finding POS block increase linearly with days between 30 and 90 but is independent of the quantity of coins in the chunk?

mhps

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Quote from: Groko on March 20, 2014, 09:49:33 PM

I personally don't think we (YACoin) should force people to keep their clients open all the time. And I am at a complete loss how POS is supposed to be some kind of security utopia, especially when POS it nearly killed us. We neutered POS at block 420000, so It's behaving itself nicely now.

From what I have read, the problem YAC had with POS is YAC (and its offsprings) specific. POS promises to offer solutions to problems with POW that will probably have pure POW coins killed. POS is very complex, however.

igysa

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you sirs are great Cheesy

returning with the results soon.

Joe_Bauers

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GCVMMWH

Quote from: igysa on March 22, 2014, 01:13:57 PM

Quote from: Groko on March 22, 2014, 12:29:29 PM

Your config looks perfect. I don't know what 123 miner is, so perhaps that is the issue. Downloading executables from forum posts is a no no. Learn to build from source. Have you tried Thirtybird's version of minerd? It's the most up to date for YACoin. It's at https://github.com/Thirtybird/cpuminer.

You can read my explanation how POS works at http://yacointalk.grokonet.com/t/calculate-your-staked-coins-with-coin-control/41

Thanks Groko for your replay, I`ll give it a try..
I have had downloaded win wallet from the link on the first page of this thread, and it looks different then the one you use for POS mining explanation.
do you have the link for that one ?

You'll want to download the wallet here https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/releases/download/stable_0.4.2/YACoin-0.4.2.zip
Make sure you back up the folder that contains your wallet first

Once that is done, delete everything in that folder except for your wallet and install 0.4.2. You'll then need to wait for the blockchain to download. If you are upgrading from 0.4.1 you will not need to do this, but it sounds like you have a very old version.

As for minting Proof of Stake blocks, the only thing you have to do is:
First wait for the blockchain to sync fully - Then,

Go to Help -> Debug Window -> Console.

At the blinking cursor type: walletpassphrase YOURPASSWORD 99999 true
Replace YOURPASSWORD with whatever your password is Wink

You do no need to run a miner or anything else to mine Stake blocks.

I will be releasing an update soon that will allow you to do all of the following above by just checking a box. It will also not have a timer "99999" so
if you want to leave it open for 100 years, it will continue to mine stake blocks Cheesy

igysa

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Quote from: Groko on March 22, 2014, 12:29:29 PM

Your config looks perfect. I don't know what 123 miner is, so perhaps that is the issue. Downloading executables from forum posts is a no no. Learn to build from source. Have you tried Thirtybird's version of minerd? It's the most up to date for YACoin. It's at https://github.com/Thirtybird/cpuminer.

You can read my explanation how POS works at http://yacointalk.grokonet.com/t/calculate-your-staked-coins-with-coin-control/41

Thanks Groko for your replay, I`ll give it a try..
I have had downloaded win wallet from the link on the first page of this thread, and it looks different then the one you use for POS mining explanation.
do you have the link for that one ?

Sahtor

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Faucet: http://forum.yacoin.org/yaucet/
Donation address: YAUCET9giNuKrsnUVqtz8wLhwPkrhU62Du

Sending delays: 6-24h

Groko

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Quote from: igysa on March 22, 2014, 03:00:10 AM

which settings ?
as I tried with this bat and conf and there was no connection between miner (123 miner) and the wallet:

minerd -a scrypt-jane -o http://127.0.0.1:7689 -u igy -p sa

rpcuser=igy
rpcpassword=sa
rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
rpcport=7689
port=7688
daemon=1
server=1

Your config looks perfect. I don't know what 123 miner is, so perhaps that is the issue. Downloading executables from forum posts is a no no. Learn to build from source. Have you tried Thirtybird's version of minerd? It's the most up to date for YACoin. It's at https://github.com/Thirtybird/cpuminer.

You can read my explanation how POS works at http://yacointalk.grokonet.com/t/calculate-your-staked-coins-with-coin-control/41

igysa

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Hi all,

I was longer time absent from YAC mining (last time done with Mikaelh miners for GPU last September) but even thou it did bring me the best overall profit so far (I really like the coin

, I was forced to abandon as I moved to different town, and Rig left on old location becoming remote-one... so after some experiments with TC after N changes - Rig would pretty much Crash.. very hard to administer it remotely via Teamviewer - so I left GPU part on multipool.

I hope you guys will forgive me Wink

and now I would like to mine some YAC with A10 CPU, POS mining.

Can you please tell me first is it worth it ? I mean i would just leave it mining on the CPU of this GPU rig , not expecting any major result, just to have it running as the rig spends electricity anyway.

Which miner should I use to try for AVX or AVX2 ? and which version of wallet ?

which settings ?
as I tried with this bat and conf and there was no connection between miner (123 miner) and the wallet:

minerd -a scrypt-jane -o http://127.0.0.1:7689 -u igy -p sa

rpcuser=igy
rpcpassword=sa
rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
rpcport=7689
port=7688
daemon=1
server=1

and no connection ? what am I doing wrong ?

an if i understood, if I want POS, i just need wallet to be left not-encrypted ?
some hints for POS ?

thank you very much in advance !

Groko

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Quote from: mhps on March 20, 2014, 12:17:51 AM

Quote from: Groko on March 19, 2014, 09:19:20 PM

After mhps's comment I dug down into the code and came to the conclusion mhps was right. That is, a 1000 day old chunk of 100 coins will get get 1000 days worth of interest. And there is no limit to the number of days. If you don't open your client for 10 years, and YACoin is still around in 10 years, then you will get 10 years worth of interest.

Thanks for taking time to confirm. Just a comment -- the good thing about giving you 10 years' worth of interest if you open your wallet once in 10 years is that people are attracted by the easy interest and become a long term user of the coin; the bad thing about it is that the savers would tend to open wallet once in a long while hence lending little support to the network through being a POS minting node. There are some relevant discussions here in the contect of PPC https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1360154

That is interesting reading. I personally don't think we (YACoin) should force people to keep their clients open all the time. And I am at a complete loss how POS is supposed to be some kind of security utopia, especially when POS it nearly killed us. We neutered POS at block 420000, so It's behaving itself nicely now. What I have to say about security goes for every crypto currency. If you want security, then wait for more confirmations. Job done. If someone was buying your house with YAC, you should probably wait for at least an hour's worth of confirmations before you sign your title over. Selling someone a cup of coffee? An instant unconfirmed transaction will do.

mhps

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Quote from: Groko on March 19, 2014, 09:19:20 PM

After mhps's comment I dug down into the code and came to the conclusion mhps was right. That is, a 1000 day old chunk of 100 coins will get get 1000 days worth of interest. And there is no limit to the number of days. If you don't open your client for 10 years, and YACoin is still around in 10 years, then you will get 10 years worth of interest.

Thanks for taking time to confirm. Just a comment -- the good thing about giving you 10 years' worth of interest if you open your wallet once in 10 years is that people are attracted by the easy interest and become a long term user of the coin; the bad thing about it is that the savers would tend to open wallet once in a long while hence lending little support to the network through being a POS minting node. There are some relevant discussions here in the contect of PPC https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1360154

old c coder

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Quote from: Groko on March 12, 2014, 10:57:55 AM

Quote from: mhps on March 11, 2014, 11:36:42 PM

Quote from: Groko on March 11, 2014, 11:17:10 PM

Quote

...

Is it possible to run the wallet in a debugger and watch how it works?

Yes.

Quote

Sure there is. Follow the instructions at https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/blob/master/doc/build-msw.txt. At step 26 use Makefile.Debug instead of Makefile.Release

Code:

...
1381        static unsigned int nStakeSplitAge = (60 * 60 * 24 * 90);
...

This will take longer then usual because we are running in debug mode. When it finally fires up you will get:

Code:

Breakpoint 1,CWallet::CreateCoinstake......
(gdb) list
......
(gdb) n
1384     CBigNum +;
(gdb) print +
$1 = 7776000
(gdb)

Note that 7,760,000 is = 60 * 60 * 24 * 90 seconds I presume??? And further, if one searches the sources one finds that CBigNum bnTargetPerCoinDay is instantiated locally in CheckStakeKernelHash() in kernel.cpp and in CWallet::CreateCoinStake() in wallet.cpp. Though interestingly, the latter doesn't seem to be used!?

Ron

Groko

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Quote from: aso118 on March 18, 2014, 11:55:00 AM

Quote from: Groko on March 16, 2014, 07:49:13 AM

Quote from: mhps on March 15, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

Quote from: Groko on March 12, 2014, 12:21:12 AM

I wrote a How-To for determining how many coins in your wallet are being mined for POS interest.
I show how to use Coin Control get your total number of coins being minded by the YACoin client.

You can find the How-To here:
http://yacointalk.grokonet.com:8090/t/calculate-your-staked-coins-with-coin-control/41

I am not familiar with YAC POS calculation. I see this line here

Quote

Each chunk of eligible coins has it's interest calculated based on the chunk's age in the range between 30 and 90 days.

Does it mean for POS generation if I have 100 YACs in the wallet for 1000 days I can only expect 100 * 90* 5% / 365 reward if a POS block is found? In PPC POS calculation the probability of finding a POS block is based on coin age capped by 90 days but the reward value itself is not capped. In the above example I would expect 100 * (1000 - 30) * 1% / 365 reward.

I think you are right. I will update the post.

Groko - that is a great post on yacointalk. I've been mining YAC since the launch, and I learned a few things from your overview. Thanks!

And I believe mhps is right - I think YAC caps POS at 90 days. So a 100 YAC transaction at 1000 days would produce the same interest as at 90 days (100 * 90 / 365 * 0.05 YAC = 24.65 coin years * 0.05 YAC => 24 years * 0.05 = 1.20 YAC gained).

Again the guide is very well written, but it maybe helpful to add an example, or two, of how the 5% interest is calculated. Things like the coin-year rounding down to the nearest whole year weren't initiative to me when I originally started. From the example above, I would have expected 1.23 YAC instead of 1.20 - it boggled my mind why all POS were 'rounded' to the lowest 0.05. I figure if we can save someone an hour of sifting through the forums, it will benefit the community.

Thanks aso118. I had lots of trouble figuring out what POS was all about, especially with the confusing way the YACoin client has been reporting earnings from POS blocks. I've been working hard to fix how the client reports POS earning. It sounds like a new release of the YACoin client is coming soon. If all goes as planned, the new client will have a transaction record that matches to the last decimal point how much YACoin is actually in your wallet.

After mhps's comment I dug down into the code and came to the conclusion mhps was right. That is, a 1000 day old chunk of 100 coins will get get 1000 days worth of interest. And there is no limit to the number of days. If you don't open your client for 10 years, and YACoin is still around in 10 years, then you will get 10 years worth of interest.

However, the probability of finding a POS block for those 100 coins started at a low point at 30 days, and increased gradually until the coins got 90 days old. After 90 days the coin's continue to accrue interest, but the probability of finding a POS block for those coins stays at a constant maximum probability from day 90 until day 1000. If a POS block were found on day 1000, I would expect the interest to be (100)*(0.05)*(1000)/(365) or 13.698.

Joe_Bauers

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OK thanks. I will work to get a Windows build up soon. Nothing has changed in the way coins are minted except it now just takes a check mark (and password if wallet is encrypted to unlock for stake minting only) to enable Wink

Beave162

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.

Quote from: Joe_Bauers on March 19, 2014, 12:45:13 PM

Quote from: Joe_Bauers on March 14, 2014, 10:18:30 PM

OK, I added the stake function to testing. I tested it over the past few days and everything looks good. Test it out if you can (you'll need to build), and if no problems, I will release it (including a windows build) soon.

https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/commit/eb8c27f5a8caa0a21618d00d5f63fecfa1d782e8

Has anyone been able to try this out? Are you all waiting for a compiled version? I've already minted a few blocks Cool

I'm waiting anxiously for the compiled version! Thanks so much, Joe. Nothing has changed the way coins are minted right? Just the interface?

Quote from: demios on March 15, 2014, 03:10:45 AM

if someone is still interested in my case

....the coins arrived at last.

i opened the third ticket, and i was a little bit rude and sarcastic, maybe that helped, but,
agent Leah, again excalated ticket to tier 2agent, Mullick.
He said that these problematic transactions have gotten stuck in their wallet due to being to large to fit into a block (too many inputs).
he resent them and now, after two months, YACs are my wallet.

That is great news! And thank you for the update. The name of the game is finding the least corrupt exchange. Keep voting on cryptorush.in. I'm voting everyday.

Thirtybird

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Quote from: Joe_Bauers on March 19, 2014, 12:45:13 PM

Quote from: Joe_Bauers on March 14, 2014, 10:18:30 PM

OK, I added the stake function to testing. I tested it over the past few days and everything looks good. Test it out if you can (you'll need to build), and if no problems, I will release it (including a windows build) soon.

https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/commit/eb8c27f5a8caa0a21618d00d5f63fecfa1d782e8

Has anyone been able to try this out? Are you all waiting for a compiled version? I've already minted a few blocks Cool

If I could compile it I would - I used to fail when trying to compile for windows under MingGW - the whole QT thing never worked for me.

Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - page 82. (Read 380091 times)