Another betting fraud in Brazil - part 2

rdluffy

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Quote from: wiss19 on June 01, 2023, 01:11:31 PM

Quote from: Taskford on May 31, 2023, 05:50:55 PM

Oh well on big leagues especially when their sports is so famous match fixing is lessen since its easy to spot those incident nowadays. All have camera and anyone can upload the footage anytime they want that's why some of those doings got easily busted by people and officials working on the league. Maybe the best thing they could do if they want to eliminate this match fixing or any manipulation happening they should more higher fines or even players or team involve will get blacklisted on the league for sure many will afraid to do this action and they can make sure betting will be fair with that.

It might be easy to identify an action that is done as a result of a match of spot-fixing if it's done in a clear manner which shows the player has done something unusual, but there are also players who even do cheating but they do it in a way that they get away undetected and even the officials can't suspect them of being cheaters.

And about bans and fines, I think authorities are pretty strict with that these days, as said by OP in his post above, they can even ban players for life from soccer and also fine them for what they did, fines might not be an issue but a ban for a lifetime will surely make every player scared.

I'll quote you both to answer
@Taskford, I believe that when players try to cheat the game with the result, it is a little easier to detect the cheating
But in the case of most of the matches they are investigating, the bettors tried to "outsmart" the match and not cheat the result, but rather the actions of the players, which would be much easier, under control, and draw less attention.
The players would need to draw a foul, a penalty or even just take a yellow card.
How many times don't we see players get yellow carded for stupid reasons? Like complaining too much, swearing at the referee, taking too long to charge a lateral etc? And even in big matches, such as the World Cup or the Champions League, you can see that there are many of these attitudes.
That is why it is so difficult to detect something like this.

And I agree with the bans, to me it's the best decision, just ban the player and make the example.

Today, I found that Eduardo Bauermann from Santos, was suspended for 12 matches in total.
In this case I thought it was too little, and at the very least he could have given a one-year suspension
Source

wiss19

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Quote from: Taskford on May 31, 2023, 05:50:55 PM

Oh well on big leagues especially when their sports is so famous match fixing is lessen since its easy to spot those incident nowadays. All have camera and anyone can upload the footage anytime they want that's why some of those doings got easily busted by people and officials working on the league. Maybe the best thing they could do if they want to eliminate this match fixing or any manipulation happening they should more higher fines or even players or team involve will get blacklisted on the league for sure many will afraid to do this action and they can make sure betting will be fair with that.

It might be easy to identify an action that is done as a result of a match of spot-fixing if it's done in a clear manner which shows the player has done something unusual, but there are also players who even do cheating but they do it in a way that they get away undetected and even the officials can't suspect them of being cheaters.

And about bans and fines, I think authorities are pretty strict with that these days, as said by OP in his post above, they can even ban players for life from soccer and also fine them for what they did, fines might not be an issue but a ban for a lifetime will surely make every player scared.

Taskford

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Quote from: jakelyson on May 13, 2023, 04:00:14 PM

Quote from: Crypt0Gore on May 11, 2023, 03:39:31 AM

I am not surprised, because such will happen where there is less payment for the players, In my country players are been paid higher fee to lose a match that's why I am not surprised, it's better to focus on popular league matches like Seria A and La Liga.

But seriously, something like this can be going on in the background too, how will anyone know that big leagues are clean of bribing too? There is no way you will know, but the only thing that makes me believe that bigger leagues are safer is because they are well-paid.

Higher payments get rid of bad intentions and bribery in sports.

It will probably lessen the likelihood of players getting involved but I do not think it will totally solve the problem. This kind of problem has been going around for a long time already and it can affect all kinds of sports whether it is small league or not. As long as there is gambling in any sport, gamblers will try to do this. I think it is the responsibility of the league to spot immediately if any of the players or teams are involved in any manipulation of the games. They cannot stop casinos from operating so they cannot stop malicious entities to try to manipulate the games. All they can do is try to spot any manipulation immediately and punish anyone involved heavily. Hopefully, it will be enough deterrent to keep the manipulation to a minimum.

Oh well on big leagues especially when their sports is so famous match fixing is lessen since its easy to spot those incident nowadays. All have camera and anyone can upload the footage anytime they want that's why some of those doings got easily busted by people and officials working on the league. Maybe the best thing they could do if they want to eliminate this match fixing or any manipulation happening they should more higher fines or even players or team involve will get blacklisted on the league for sure many will afraid to do this action and they can make sure betting will be fair with that.

rdluffy

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After a few days, several things have happened, and I will try to summarize:

The Superior Court of Sports Justice of Brazil has already started punishing the investigated, and the player Romário from the Vila Nova team has been banned (forever) from soccer, and will still have to pay a fine of 25,000 BRL. The other player Gabriel Domingos has been suspended for 720 days and will have to pay 15,000 brl fine.

I thought it was a good attitude to ban the player from soccer because it can be an example for future players who think of cheating the system.

Source

So far, there are 16 people in total indicted for involvement in 13 matches in total and 8 of these people are players
I suspect they may find more as time goes on, the justice in investigating at least 20 matches.

And more relevant news, even a Brazilian player playing in MLS (United States) for the Colorado Rapids has been suspended by the club for suspected cheating in an MLS game
The suspicion is that he was paid 12,000 USD to receive a yellow card in a match against the Los Angeles Galaxy
Source

And finally, I believe that if all federations investigate, they will surely find a lot of fraud in many countries, including the European leagues.

jakelyson

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on May 11, 2023, 03:39:31 AM

I am not surprised, because such will happen where there is less payment for the players, In my country players are been paid higher fee to lose a match that's why I am not surprised, it's better to focus on popular league matches like Seria A and La Liga.

But seriously, something like this can be going on in the background too, how will anyone know that big leagues are clean of bribing too? There is no way you will know, but the only thing that makes me believe that bigger leagues are safer is because they are well-paid.

Higher payments get rid of bad intentions and bribery in sports.

It will probably lessen the likelihood of players getting involved but I do not think it will totally solve the problem. This kind of problem has been going around for a long time already and it can affect all kinds of sports whether it is small league or not. As long as there is gambling in any sport, gamblers will try to do this. I think it is the responsibility of the league to spot immediately if any of the players or teams are involved in any manipulation of the games. They cannot stop casinos from operating so they cannot stop malicious entities to try to manipulate the games. All they can do is try to spot any manipulation immediately and punish anyone involved heavily. Hopefully, it will be enough deterrent to keep the manipulation to a minimum.

slapper

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This is very unexpected! Another Brazilian sports betting scam? They seem to have an insatiable appetite for controversies. Fantastic job! The ramifications ought to be enormous. I mean, the CBF requesting a probe from the Federal Police. This is serious business, folks! Clap slowly

Take a look at these 16 accused, all of whom are Brazilian championship-level athletes competing in either the A or B series. Surely they believed themselves to be the master manipulators! Unfortunately, they have been caught. Especially unfortunate is Eduardo Bauermann, who Santos fired. Ouch!

It's unbelievable that con artists keep getting away with it. Why can't we just have a good, honest game? But who wants stability anyway? Let's make the bookies lose money left and right to keep them on their toes. And don't forget about us, the honest betters, who study the games day in and day out only to be left baffled.

How ironic! We need to make sure that justice is administered in Brazil during this period of rapid growth for bookies. For the sake of the development and success of the industry, those responsible must be punished. The elegant dance of retribution can now commence.

rdluffy

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on May 12, 2023, 11:27:55 AM

...Since they control majority of these platforms, they can manipulate the outcome to their liking, thereby making gambling a business venture on their end.
...

Quote from: Webetcoins on May 13, 2023, 10:46:03 AM

...
But if the platforms are themselves involved and participating in all this, they will need to close them down as well and if they can't control this or find the suspects, they should probably ban all the betting platforms since that is the only option that remains.

I believe that in this case the betting platforms are probably the biggest victims we are talking about, along with the clubs
The platforms work with mathematical odds, and have a good estimate of how many bets will win or not.
When some people, or in this case several people, place bets that already know the outcome because they have direct influence, it would be like a loss for the companies.
Look at the case where they bet 175 BRL and won 43,000 BRL, I did a brief calculation here and the odds would be 245
Honestly speaking, how many of us make bets of 245 odds?

The people who placed the bets still made some of these "strange" bets and lost on purpose, supposedly so as not to attract attention, or to flag the account

Casdinyard

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Quote from: Webetcoins on May 13, 2023, 10:46:03 AM

Quote from: qwertyup23 on May 12, 2023, 11:27:55 AM

These are the kinds of problems that the government must deal with. This is outside the scope of any normal person to overcome as these cartels are definitely powerful and dangerous. Since they control majority of these platforms, they can manipulate the outcome to their liking, thereby making gambling a business venture on their end.

Unfortunately for us normal individuals, we really cannot do anything about it but to avoid engaging into their controlled casino. The more a person fights or attempts to show restraint, the more risk you put on your own life with it.

I don't think that even the authorities have much of an option to find a suspect, except they can keep an eye on every single betting platform and sportsbook operating within the country and look for any usual activity and then track them down with the help of the platforms they are using for all these activities and that might lead them to something.

But if the platforms are themselves involved and participating in all this, they will need to close them down as well and if they can't control this or find the suspects, they should probably ban all the betting platforms since that is the only option that remains.

I don’t think the betting platforms are to be blamed at this. For instance. They have no control over who wins and loses, let alone be provided control through fixing matches. This isn’t Peaky Blinders. This is real life and with a game as massive and as prestigious as the literal game that will decide which team will represent Brazil in the world cup, for sure crackdowns against betting platforms and bookies who want to take advantage by fixing matches towards their favor. Pretty sure the very same parameters and security contingencies that allowed the Brazilian Football Authority to find and disable this operation are just a taste of what’s to come.

Webetcoins

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on May 12, 2023, 11:27:55 AM

These are the kinds of problems that the government must deal with. This is outside the scope of any normal person to overcome as these cartels are definitely powerful and dangerous. Since they control majority of these platforms, they can manipulate the outcome to their liking, thereby making gambling a business venture on their end.

Unfortunately for us normal individuals, we really cannot do anything about it but to avoid engaging into their controlled casino. The more a person fights or attempts to show restraint, the more risk you put on your own life with it.

I don't think that even the authorities have much of an option to find a suspect, except they can keep an eye on every single betting platform and sportsbook operating within the country and look for any usual activity and then track them down with the help of the platforms they are using for all these activities and that might lead them to something.

But if the platforms are themselves involved and participating in all this, they will need to close them down as well and if they can't control this or find the suspects, they should probably ban all the betting platforms since that is the only option that remains.

darewaller

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Quote from: smyslov on May 12, 2023, 10:05:43 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on May 12, 2023, 09:56:04 AM

It will be very difficult to fight the "cartels" involved in match fixing. Unfortunately, this is not just a Brazilian problem, it is a global problem from Asia to Europe to South America it is rampant. There may even be international rings involved in this. For example despite gambling being illegal in India, there are still reported cases of match fixing that occurs in cricket. A great solution to this is that sports budget should be increased so that players in smaller leagues would get better renumeration.

I agree every country has its own gambling lords and organized mafias to control gambling betting through game fixing, these mafias have contacts and money to lure top players and even officials to connive and fix the matches, this betting fraud in Brazil game fixing has their version in many countries, they are not yet exposed but it really is happening, many sports commissions are aware of game fixing but the mafias have control on some media for it not to leak.
Every country has its own watchdog but sometimes the watchdogs are on the payroll of these mafias.

That is what I am going to say, mafias. This is why people are just being silent and continue like there is nothing strange that happened because they are also worrying about their safety. They know what can happen to them once they report and fight these illegalities happening in sports betting. Despite of that, they still came up with a different version.

This is for others who are not aware yet and will not be able to identify the shady things going around. With the mafias controlling the media, they can edit or not include the footage where an obvious fixing have surfaced. This is why we think all games that we saw in our screens looks pretty normal.

slapper

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Quote from: rahmad2nd on May 12, 2023, 01:52:06 PM

Quote from: rdluffy on May 10, 2023, 09:04:31 PM

~snip~

It is absurd that this kind of scam still happens because it harms almost everyone: the bookmakers that have no way to predict this attitude and lose money, the teams, the fans, and even us honest betters who analyze to make a bet. It is a time of great expansion for bookmakers in Brazil, it is very important that all those responsible are punished so that the industry can continue to grow and prosper honestly.

In the past, I often bet on the Brazilian league. some of the clubs mentioned in this thread are quite familiar to me like Fluminense, Cruzeiro, Santos. To be honest, I am wondering whether practices like this have been around for a long time. because, there are many oddities when I watch Brazilian League matches. referring to the link that the OP shared, it seems that online gambling makes it easier for the persons involved to carry out practices with various motives.

here I agree, that it is very important to punish all those who are involved and responsible, especially those involved in organizing. my guess is, there are some people in the federation who deliberately allow practices like this. I am not accusing, but referring to what has happened in my country. So, there has to be a major change if you want to eliminate practices like what you describe in this thread. whatever the type, whether it's match fixing, or other modes. well, involving FIFA and the central government is the right step to carry out a massive cleanup.

Is the Brazilian League causing you concern? You guys got me completely. Corruption? Match-fixing? Major challenges. Additionally, online gambling may be a breeding ground for such problems. Let us be clear, though; the Federation is not entirely devoid of good people.

Let's use our brains instead of our fingertips. We require stringent regulations, vigilant oversight, and ethics education. The guilty should be punished, but we should also take preventative measures.

The government of FIFA? Need to get involved immediately! They can aid in cleaning up and putting things in order. For the sake of the players and the fans, let's band together and restore the Brazilian League to its former glory. That sums it up nicely!

retreat

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Quote from: rdluffy on May 10, 2023, 09:04:31 PM

-snip-

It is absurd that this kind of scam still happens because it harms almost everyone: the bookmakers that have no way to predict this attitude and lose money, the teams, the fans, and even us honest betters who analyze to make a bet. It is a time of great expansion for bookmakers in Brazil, it is very important that all those responsible are punished so that the industry can continue to grow and prosper honestly.

It seems that match-fixing and football are two things that cannot be separated. No matter how football regulators arrange this, it seems that it will be quite difficult for them, considering that many entities in football need money, for example players who accept bribes so they can lose, referees are controlled, and many other cases. This is a problem that most often occurs in the football industry in any country and the case that occurred in Brazil is only the tip of the iceberg from the squalid nature of the football industry.

Webetcoins

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Most people are saying that this is because the teams pay less to the players and that is what leads them to take a bribe but that is not actually what it is, even if they are paid enough, they will still do this since it's human nature to keep wanting more no matter how much one has already got, and I'm sure they are paid enough not to sell their souls and the reputation of their country.

A person, no matter what part of the world they belong to, should have some respect for their country and should always try to keep its dignity intact, but nowadays, sportsmen don't really care about all this and they sell their country's dignity for some money.

wheelz1200

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This is never going to end. I'm sure this is just one of many that happen every week. When gambling on this you need to take that into consideration. And the lower the stakes or league the better chance. When players make low salaries for a particular sport they are more influenced to throw the game. Same with the refs or umps. Just part of the gig. This isn't that surprising.

tusandii

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Quote from: aioc on May 11, 2023, 09:00:36 AM

Quote from: tusandii on May 11, 2023, 04:25:39 AM

It is possible that you are right in saying that they do not get enough salary or benefits so that they dare to risk their careers to participate in sports betting scams.

I would like to add they do not have a real love for the sport, because if they do they will not let these things happen, and only a big syndicate can do this, both the syndicate and the players made money they made the public believe that they are doing their best and they deserve the trust of the public.

The commission should do everything to eradicate corruption and to regain the trust of the public again, even to the extent of putting the best players of the league in jail and banning all those responsible to game fixing.
Of all the things the general sports public confidence is very important, you lose the trust of the public and that could be the end of sports in that country.

They no longer care about the sport that has brought them a name and popularity as players because all they think about is profit by participating in betting fraud.
Anyone who is only concerned with money is willing to do illegal things even though the risk can be in trouble with the law and lose public trust.
It should be known that people like this, even though they get punished, there will never be a sense of deterrence and one day when they are free they will still do these forbidden things.

Even though certain actions have been taken to gain public trust, if a trust has been lost and damaged, it will be very difficult to restore it to its original state.
The only thing that can be done is slowly making changes and eradicating all cases of fraud in sports betting as stated by the OP.

Casdinyard

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Seems like the Brazilian Soccer scene is going towards the shitter day by day. Never heard of a league getting outted for two different cases of fixing until them. Personally speaking, suspension of the players l, as well as having the whole Brazil barred from playing in the world cup for one run is an enough punishment to scare them from doing something like this again. Brazil is a very tough country to govern, with all the crime and other forms of illegal activity happening in the country every minute. It only males sense to give these people a much harsher punishment cause it is quite possible considering the country’s nature (and I don’t mean this in any form of racism) is that they’re hard as hell, and therefore even harder to control and provide punishments too cause they’d just laugh it off.

rahmad2nd

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Quote from: rdluffy on May 10, 2023, 09:04:31 PM

~snip~

It is absurd that this kind of scam still happens because it harms almost everyone: the bookmakers that have no way to predict this attitude and lose money, the teams, the fans, and even us honest betters who analyze to make a bet. It is a time of great expansion for bookmakers in Brazil, it is very important that all those responsible are punished so that the industry can continue to grow and prosper honestly.

In the past, I often bet on the Brazilian league. some of the clubs mentioned in this thread are quite familiar to me like Fluminense, Cruzeiro, Santos. To be honest, I am wondering whether practices like this have been around for a long time. because, there are many oddities when I watch Brazilian League matches. referring to the link that the OP shared, it seems that online gambling makes it easier for the persons involved to carry out practices with various motives.

here I agree, that it is very important to punish all those who are involved and responsible, especially those involved in organizing. my guess is, there are some people in the federation who deliberately allow practices like this. I am not accusing, but referring to what has happened in my country. So, there has to be a major change if you want to eliminate practices like what you describe in this thread. whatever the type, whether it's match fixing, or other modes. well, involving FIFA and the central government is the right step to carry out a massive cleanup.

ChuckBuck

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better everyday ♥

Quote from: pawanjain on May 12, 2023, 10:47:39 AM

May be because soccer/football is not so popular in my country which is why I haven't heard of match fixing in here.
I mostly watch FIFA and other leagues and I think the players are already paid enough and hence no match fixing allegations are against them.

In fact, it's really great, isn't it? when everything is really fair. There is nothing better than being able to watch an exciting tournament without any manipulation. Match-fixing is one of the worst, it's worse than stealing. It causes a huge consequence just in exchange for favorable outcomes for the bettor Roll Eyes

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Quote from: dunfida on May 11, 2023, 06:36:37 PM

Quote from: o48o on May 11, 2023, 06:07:44 PM

I totally understand why would it happen. Easy money for everyone involved. And i am pretty sure that they thought their circle was air tight. If no one admits anything no one can be charged. Problems however start to arise when people get greedy and more people needs to shut up. At some point someone will spill out something to their friends etc, like a good tip for a sure bet. And those people can speak when they are celebrating. This is why real conspiracies / frauds only have few people involved.

The more people involved or included on the circle the more risky it would be to be spilled out or to leak out and this is where it would really be busted and it is really just right that those who are involved should really be banned,get fired, impose huge violation fees or whatsoever which it is really just that right basing on what they had just did. In speaking about match fixing or players getting bribed or whatsoever then
it isnt really that new or shocking news. We've see several in previous years and there's no way that it could be completely stopped on upcoming years to come.
Good thing that this one had been caught up because if not then lots of honest bettors or even bookies itself would be fucked up hard just because the game
is just been rigged up. Not shocking or something new but its very unethical but for the sake of money then nothing surprises us anymore.

Yeah, while i understand the motive, even if we set ethical issues aside i don't understand the reasoning behind it. I mean risk reward ratio just ain't worth it imho. I am assuming that sanctions would be kicked out and not being able to continue their career professionally. And having the audacity to think they are so smart that they wouldn't get caught is just mind blowing. I am assuming that these things are happening a lot if they really thought that no one would even look any possible irregularities twice.

slapper

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Quote from: Aikidoka on May 12, 2023, 09:32:23 AM

It's a shame to hear that a fixed game occurred in a famous division like Brazil's league. I would expect such incidents to happen in lower divisions or third-world countries, but to have it happen in the A and B series of Brazil's league is quite surprising. Such stuffs like that destroy the fairness of the game and undermine its normal rules.

IMO every football game should now be equipped with VAR to check any incidents that may occur between players, referees, and even coaches in order to avoid any cheating or unfair play. I hope that we won't see anything like that again in the Brazilian football league as I am a fan of that league and really enjoy watching it from time to time.

Something fishy going on in Brazil's top flight? It's like eating your favorite dessert laced with artificial sugar; disappointing, right? But don't assume the problem is exclusive to the lower classes or developing nations. Cheating? It's even in the major leagues, so it's clearly widespread. The ability to intercept sneaky fouls and questionable handballs are two of the benefits. But keep in mind that video review can often be a downer. Consider this: the celebration of a successful goal is interrupted by a highly technical assessment. Like a pizza delivery that never arrives! Justice is served by VAR, but it eliminates the human element and the passionate arguments about referees' calls. Let's find the sweet spot where technology meets common sense. Passion, excitement, and a dash of mayhem best describe football

Topic: Another betting fraud in Brazil - part 2 (Read 397 times)