Another mistake in Bitcoin fees? | Bitcointalksearch.org

carlisle1

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Quote from: pooya87 on November 19, 2020, 01:21:58 AM

how do you know that this is a mistake and not intentional?

i am always skeptical about these cases being a "mistake". all wallets that i have seen already have a good way of warning the user of "absurdly high fees" to prevent mistakes like this one. they look more like bribes to miners or possibly even a money laundry case although a pretty bad one at that.

So for some posts related to this in the past that i thought it is a mistake,now it is clear that all is intentional?how great these people are of either bribing or laundering the money pretending to be a mistake considering that this transaction comes from exchange.

Quote from: aarif123 on November 21, 2020, 07:26:36 AM

This is very sad to know there are so many new people in this industry who are doing first time transaction using bitcoin so that's why they are making mistakes like this one I will highly recommend to learn sending and receiving bitcoin before making actual one

it is not a newbie in transacting and if you will only read the first page of this thread you will find suspicious activities behind this transactiob.

bitcoin31

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There is some people are making mistakes about the fees they are confuse maybe on tht they when they send a coin.
But the fees is very high amount count to hink of it you pad few bitcoins for the few amounts of dollars .
I hope no more sender will do mistakes about transaction fees because we are talking about huge money once you do a mistake it will never you get that again .

aarif123

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This is very sad to know there are so many new people in this industry who are doing first time transaction using bitcoin so that's why they are making mistakes like this one I will highly recommend to learn sending and receiving bitcoin before making actual one

markcolls

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lmao

i just made a trade paying 1 sat/B fees.

CaVO32

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Quote from: asche on November 21, 2020, 05:20:37 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on November 20, 2020, 11:30:27 PM

i tried to go through the input/outputs but couldn't make any solid conclusion. i think the "tumbling script gone wrong" is a pretty good guess though.

I'm wondering if setting high fees on purpose would be a good way to actually tumble funds. After all you can still follow the fee to the miner, right?

So no one here yet has the solid conclusion about what happened to this transaction? Can we trace the address to exchange wallet and identify which exchange is the culprit? Because when I first read the OP, what I thought was the first speculation of pooya that this might be intentional, for whatever reason. And so, in my mind, this is not a mistake.

bitterguy28

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Quote from: AhmadM on November 18, 2020, 03:48:22 PM

As of today looks like someone has just made another mistake on sending his/her Bitcoin, s/he has apparently paid around 2.66BTC ($47) in fees to send a 0.01088549BTC ($194) transaction.

Txid

Code:

3ba0c9eaf3185898164518cda7e3433d1d2049188d737f2b2a7e188aaeb8b4de

Sources:
[1] https://decrypt.co/48730/bitcoin-transaction-mistake-47k
[2] https://twitter.com/BtcBlockBot/status/1329073154581381130

Like what some says it is a Exchange wallet and maybe confident about all the transactions they did in the past so wasn't checking the fee every sending.

Good for the Miner that this happen so income is just there without doing nothing Roll Eyes

Hope that the miner has a good heart and send back at least Half of the mistaken fee though i doubt that there is happening like this.

asche

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Quote from: pooya87 on November 20, 2020, 11:30:27 PM

i tried to go through the input/outputs but couldn't make any solid conclusion. i think the "tumbling script gone wrong" is a pretty good guess though.

I'm wondering if setting high fees on purpose would be a good way to actually tumble funds. After all you can still follow the fee to the miner, right?

imstillthebest

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Quote from: asche on November 20, 2020, 06:14:04 PM

Quote from: Globb0 on November 20, 2020, 05:59:45 PM

They are years old repetitive but what s the trick?

1- Block rewards & fees are "clean money".
2- you can "privately" mine any transaction, including your own that you wouldn't have broadcasted. Once you are first on a block you publish it with your transaction and you "keep" the fees, and have a lot of "clean" bitcoin

i see so it isnt an accident but they are doing this for a reason . it was like cleansing the coins simillar to what can a mixer do but can this be better than using a mixer ? but the steps looks complicated and need to be an advanced users for someone to initiate it .

i think this was the second time i witness a trick like this and that was from eth before where sender also send millions worth of eth .

nebuch

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Things might happen in cryptocurrency. Better to be cautious always by doing transactions to avoid mistakes as much as possible. Once the token sent to a wrong address, it is not reversible. Anticipation is better than impulsive actions. I think, in that case the sender did it intentionally.

jerrison

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Quote from: AhmadM on November 18, 2020, 03:48:22 PM

As of today looks like someone has just made another mistake on sending his/her Bitcoin, s/he has apparently paid around 2.66BTC ($47) in fees to send a 0.01088549BTC ($194) transaction.

Txid

Code:

3ba0c9eaf3185898164518cda7e3433d1d2049188d737f2b2a7e188aaeb8b4de

Sources:
[1] https://decrypt.co/48730/bitcoin-transaction-mistake-47k
[2] https://twitter.com/BtcBlockBot/status/1329073154581381130

People should always verify transactions before sending as they already know the technology is irreversible and no one can return or recall the transaction for them adn it is also not for these kind of conditions that a 51% DOS attack can be initiated. If one is pretty new, he should consult people who are knowledgeable in the technology.

pooya87

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Quote from: stompix on November 20, 2020, 12:23:06 PM

Pretty suspicious indeed, those outputs were each funded with different transactions but same patterns, I got bored following the funding which took at least two weeks prior to this, at least 30-40 hops for each of them, either money laundering or a tumbling script that went wrong?

i tried to go through the input/outputs but couldn't make any solid conclusion. i think the "tumbling script gone wrong" is a pretty good guess though.

Quote from: asche on November 20, 2020, 05:56:52 PM

I'm not all to familiar with how fees are setup in clients, and I usually don't care setting a higher fee, but on this size would it be possible the user was trying to put a decimal fee and confuses the . and , in his client?

it is not possible to say without knowing the tool that was used to create, sign and broadcast this transaction. if this was done manually using any of the good wallets they would have received a warning and possibly even were prevented from sending the transaction with such high fees. however, if the wallet was terrible and had dumb bugs it is possible to see such issues.

but bugs like this are more possible in automatic systems where a script signs and broadcasts the tx itself.

aesma

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Quote from: TedMosby on November 20, 2020, 11:59:31 AM

Quote from: electronicash on November 18, 2020, 06:38:26 PM

i don't think it will be returned. even solo miner will not return it. not even a pool.

-snip-

There is still a chance. At least to split the loss.
Just like what this ethereum user did last year.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/ethereum-user-who-accidentally-paid-365-000-fee-splits-loss-with-mining-pool-sparkpool

I guess if the mistake is that huge you can involve lawyers and attack the mining pool, then try and negotiate something like that. Not sure it would be worth it for 2,5BTC though, these damn lawyers are expensive.

asche

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I forgot more than you will ever know.

Quote from: Globb0 on November 20, 2020, 05:59:45 PM

They are years old repetitive but what s the trick?

1- Block rewards & fees are "clean money".
2- you can "privately" mine any transaction, including your own that you wouldn't have broadcasted. Once you are first on a block you publish it with your transaction and you "keep" the fees, and have a lot of "clean" bitcoin

dimonstration

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Dimon69

We can't deny sometimes we just keep clicking yes or okay when we do transactions that cause sometime this mistake or loss whenever we don't read or check the inputs given by the system, the were times I only noticed the fees once the transaction is done, luckily its not that big as $47.

slapper

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Damn. This is a huge mistake which can make a person desperate. $47k is a tremendous amount which can not easily be collected. And there is no way miner will refund those money. Which wallet is the prepetrator? Or he just simply mistype?

I have never made any such mistake like that. Be responsible for your money

Globb0

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There is something hooky in these transactions.

Some kind of laundering trick or something.

They are years old repetitive but what s the trick?

asche

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Fee per byte is high but not that high enough but since there are a lot of inputs, the fee got increased significantly as you can see the size of the tx is 111713 bytes in total. However, I think it was a wrong fee estimation by the client they used.

I'm not 100 % clear how some wallets are choosing the fee they advise you to take for slow / standard / fast transfer.
But imagine you can "hack" the provider these wallets use for these propositions. At some point users are going to forget checking, and I guess some exchanges probably make this choice automated instead of having manual limits set.

Hard lesson learned for someone.

Quote from: pooya87 on November 19, 2020, 01:21:58 AM

i am always skeptical about these cases being a "mistake". all wallets that i have seen already have a good way of warning the user of "absurdly high fees" to prevent mistakes like this one. they look more like bribes to miners or possibly even a money laundry case although a pretty bad one at that.

I'm too. I'd suppose we are going to know soon enough if someone kindly asks the miner to return those fees. At least on the some occasions they were mistakes on eth since people asked to return the payout...

He might just be wanting to consolidate inputs...

I'm not all to familiar with how fees are setup in clients, and I usually don't care setting a higher fee, but on this size would it be possible the user was trying to put a decimal fee and confuses the . and , in his client?

If anyone knows here if setting a decimal fee is even possible? (I obviously know you can't divide a sat, but if your tx is 10 vbyte, and you set a 2,5 sat/vbyte fee, that would make a 25 sat fee, of course for it to work there needs to be some rounding somewhere).

stompix

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Of course, it's not funny for the person or company indeed made a mistake but...

https://blockstream.info/tx/3ba0c9eaf3185898164518cda7e3433d1d2049188d737f2b2a7e188aaeb8b4de

you have to admit this can make one smile considering what happened.

Quote from: pooya87 on November 19, 2020, 01:21:58 AM

how do you know that this is a mistake and not intentional?

Pretty suspicious indeed, those outputs were each funded with different transactions but same patterns, I got bored following the funding which took at least two weeks prior to this, at least 30-40 hops for each of them, either money laundering or a tumbling script that went wrong?

TedMosby

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5274318.0

Quote from: electronicash on November 18, 2020, 06:38:26 PM

i don't think it will be returned. even solo miner will not return it. not even a pool.

-snip-

There is still a chance. At least to split the loss.
Just like what this ethereum user did last year.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/ethereum-user-who-accidentally-paid-365-000-fee-splits-loss-with-mining-pool-sparkpool

Quote from: pooya87 on November 19, 2020, 01:21:58 AM

how do you know that this is a mistake and not intentional?

i am always skeptical about these cases being a "mistake". all wallets that i have seen already have a good way of warning the user of "absurdly high fees" to prevent mistakes like this one. they look more like bribes to miners or possibly even a money laundry case although a pretty bad one at that.

Or it was a clue of something? Or they did it for marketing purpose? Maybe.
All speculations are possible about this kind of situation.
The transaction was real, but we won’t know the story behind it.

pooya87

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on November 20, 2020, 05:38:25 AM

So does it mean that if such mistake happen irrespective the amount or values of the btc the person transacting such can't retrieve he or her btc,

yes, bitcoin transactions will always remain irreversible. however, the person making the mistake could contact the mining pool and ask if they would be willing to pay him back the fee that was paid by mistake. but that is still a new transaction coming out of the pocket of the pool owner.

Quote

so what should be advice to a novice in these type of transactions in case if things of this nature is about to occur via further transactions,

use wallets and tools that don't have silly bugs, pay attention to what you do and double check your transactions before broadcasting them.

Quote

i think they should be possible ways to make it to return if it happened.

no there really shouldn't be. anything else would be against immutability of bitcoin.

Topic: Another mistake in Bitcoin fees? (Read 597 times)