Topic: Anti-Fraud Team -- Help Wanted - page 2. (Read 8500 times)

10mBtc for a nice tl;dr post

Edit: Ok, 50mBtc for it, I really want to know what is all about in this thread.

transitive verb tl;dr = 'summarize'

I don't understand the use of "TL;DR" as a transitive verb? 

Anyone could please TL;DR what ATC said?

It was a newbie mistake... I didn't quite understand how it worked until I saw what happened and had to rectify it. That is another reason I don't want to be in charge of any donation money anymore. 

Ok... now back to the original subject...

When I first made the OP I was a bit "emotionally charged" and probably in the wrong state of mind... I had just figured out how deep the rabbit hole goes, and was quite pissed off about how wide-spread scamming is in Bitcoinland. I had been up all night researching and investigating and was completely exhausted, so I was indeed a bit too hasty and too eager to do something. I should've slept on it and organized my thoughts the next morning. As BCB points out, I am a newbie here and that makes it difficult to relate to others who've been here long before me. Those of you who've been here for several years have probably dealt with more scamming than I can even imagine, and your patience has simply worn thing... this is understandable... But I would still like to point out that you shouldn't personally attack people and treat them like dirt when they haven't actually done harm to anyone... :-)

That being said, let's hurry up and find someone to be the accountant and come up with a gameplan. In the meantime, I'll be spending my time continuing my efforts with Paypal and eBay. I would greatly appreciate some community input on how we can proceed with this idea and see it come to fruition. We really need this...

@ franky1 ::

Franky, you still do not seem to understand... I will go over this with you one more time, but it is beginning to get rather annoying, no offense. So allow me to respond to each of your remarks...


You have a valid point here, and you have indeed made several valid points. But the weight of them is significantly reduced by your deviation from reasonable, civilized discussion to personal attacks and slander having little/no base in reality...


No, I was never offended by anyone checking my Facebook. Anyone is welcome to add me on Facebook and be my friend, chat, whatever. What is offensive is going on someone's Facebook and hijacking their pictures so you can call them things like "hillbilly" and "spree killer"... and you know you saw that. That is NOT "due dilligence", and no one was asked to make an investment in my company (the doors are closed anyway). That is childish... I expect better from kids in high school...


You don't seem to understand that my company is a new company, and we have just incorporated. We are not yet showing up in listings... it is not an instantaneous process. Why are you surprised that I created a Facebook page on Dec. 5th for a brand-new corporation that was founded on that date? Our legal work for the incorporation process has only just finished. And we have nothing to do with now defunct "ATC Enterprises" founded in 1984... as you pointed out, that was 4 years before I was born. There are numerous websites on the internet trying to use the name "ATC Enterprises" but they do not own the name, and probably aren't even real, registered companies... our preliminary name search cleared earlier in December, as no one owned the name and it now belongs to us -- a brand-new corporation.

What I fail to understand is what any of this has to do with the idea of an open anti-fraud organization I want to see started in the community, which I have already said I do NOT want to own or be in charge of... ATC Enterprises, Inc. is a private company and it is completely my own affair and has NOTHING to do with the proposed anti-fraud organization. I am accountable to the law and shareholders, but not you. No one here is being asked to invest in my company, and as I've already pointed out no one here can invest in it... if I allowed such a thing we would no longer qualify for SEC exemptions and would have to register with them, file a formal prospectus and waste a lot of unnecessary time and money for nothing. So I dunno why you're so eager to bash my little company that I've started and try to make me look bad... Lay off, bro...


That is a rather distorted view of what has happened here...


I don't recall insulting anyone... what I DO recall is being insulted, personally attacked and accused of various outlandish conspiracy theories. No one here did a real "background check" on me. The only thing you guys did was attempt a personal assault on me as a person and offered a very twisted and cruel portrayal of me to suit your own purposes.


Again, there have been no actual background checks... just some very childish and immature behavior.


Why do you keep using terms like "business" and "investment", when this is not what this is about? What I have proposed is an open, community-based non-profit organization to fight fraud and scammers. And I have also stated more than a few times I do not want to end up as the leader.


I'm not asking for any more donations. I want the responsibility taken off my hands immediately so I can be at peace again...


Ah, so you noticed... Perhaps I haven't been such a business "failure" after all, and as far as my own company (a private venture) goes I know what I am doing... So please leave me alone about my company...


I don't WANT to be "CEO" of the anti-fraud organization. Other than running my own private company my way, not yours, I just want to play my part in getting one started and helping it accomplish something. So again, I'm asking people to step up and help with the effort. And the sooner someone is elected to take over the funds/donations the better, because I'm sick of holding it in my wallet and being attacked.

Regards,

--ATC--

I see. I just assumed you would keep donations isolated from personal funds and had created a separate wallet for this endeavor.

Your wallet is essentially a private key that "owns" the addresses you've created, and when you receive Bitcoins they are "attached" to the address you received it with. I made this simple visualization of it to demonstrate what I mean:



The 0.80 BTC donation was the last transaction I'd received. So when I tried to make a transaction for a larger amount, 0.80 BTC was debited from the donation address to carry it out. I didn't quite understand that this was the way it worked until I saw it. So I sent back two transactions to the donation address to "reattach" the 0.80 BTC (and some of my own) to the donation address -- just so that it could be seen I wasn't taking it away and had coin of my own to contribute..

--ATC--

atc your latest post sounds like a proper business plan. if only your main thread started out as this.

one thing to learn about the community is when dealing with people we have never met face to face trust has to be earned and many people will do 'due diligence' checks and research the name behind the face before trading/handing money to them.

so please do not get offended by people checking your facebook. its not stalking. its just checking up on the person. its standard practice to check who you are dealing with.

and as an anti-fraud organisation it is one key thing that you need to accept and also impliment as part of your business ethos.

secondly many have also checked up on the atc enterprises inc. apart from a business that was formed in 1984 (before you were born) and dissolved in 1990. there are no other Louisiana records on state websites for your business. no yellow pages listings, no google listings. just a facebook page created on december 5th

which is another reason why those that do research people found your proposition initially flawed. due to your lack of credible background.

you might be the most honest guy alive in the world, but please take this under advisement. insulting people that do check up on you is like the opposite of what an antifraud organisation would do. they would actually appreciate people that do background checks.

wanting people to trust you just on face value of a facebook page and a photo is not a good strategy for someone opening an anti-fraud organisation.

the comments about making a reputable person accountable for the donations should definitely be implemented due to the many flaws in your background checks.

have you made a business plan about what kind of expertise you will require to aid you. and i still await the persuasive and detailed template email to paypal.
(not the personal emails about your personal victimisation you have already sent them)

settle down concentrating on donations for now. instead get the main agenda of the organisation sorted. you dont need a website for this. all you need is to request some expertise and send some emails. your day trading/ BMW M.Benz shows everyone that your not poor, so money should not be the main thing that you are repetitively trying to defend your trust over. earn your trust as a anti-fraud organisation CEO. not as a charity.

Could you be a bit more specific about what happened here exactly. I don't understand how "the network" would deduct bitcoins from your address.

For actually doing something instead of asking for donations, I am now working with the Manchester City Council Trading Standards Office regarding CPC. Anyone who can offer additional information or if there is a victim here (because according to their wallet there is at least one by now) please contact [email protected] referencing complaint # 047774

ATC777
I certainty appreciate your energy and eagerness and enthusiasm however you should spend a little more time reading the forums and getting to know the community before you start making grand plans and claims. And while you have to take some comments with a grain of salt many members mean well and actually know what they are talking about when they contribute to the dialogue. You don't have to agree with all of it but  I do think that as part of a community that highly values freedom of speech you have to try to understand their points.  

Read the scam accusation threads to learn what types of fraud and scams exist and to see what community members are already doing to combat fraud and scams. Join #bitcoin-otc and become a known and trusted member of that community.  And while bitcoin-otc and bitcointalk often act like a bunch of nervous nellies an pounce on noobs who ask uninformed questions and first accuse them all of scamming most of them do mean well.

While is applys more to lending and is not always accurate you should read the "how to spot a scammer" thread. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/edu-how-to-spot-a-scammer-read-this-before-lending-your-coins-119896


Again bitcoin always welcomes new and enthusiastic members. Just try to get to know and understand the community before you try to naively change or improve it.

I had a long drive to and from my aunt's house to do some thinking. And Rob E is right... beat me to what I wanted to say.

When the thread first went up we had the beginnings of what was going to be a constructive conversation that would get somewhere. But a couple of people had it on their agenda, from the start, that they were not going to let that happen, no matter what the cost. They know their way around a forum, and how to yell and pound their chest the loudest to make people think they're right, or at least cast enough doubt into the equation to derail the thing. Notice the choice of words like "let this thread die"... And that really gives me cause to question what their motivations really are. Because it obviously isn't to help the Bitcoin community and reduce the danger of fraud that hangs over all of us (even scammers are at risk of being scammed, though I do not sympathize with them).

Regardless of what their motivations are, the idea of an anti-fraud campaign in the Bitcoin community is going to worry those who do make their living at fraud (or at least on a supplementary basis) and their ability to hide behind the anonymity of the Bitcoin, Tor and other technologies. A group of people ruthlessly hunting them down and exposing them like a pack of wolves on a scared deer is disquieting for some, to say the least... And those, like me, who have opted out of anonymity -- because we had nothing to hide -- could actually end up in danger of physical, financial or social harm if we were to be the ones who brought (or even were passively involved in bringing) financial criminals to justice. So now that I've thought about it, perhaps I'm not the best person to be the "dagger", due to my lack of anonymity. That role should be played by people who have a bit more internet/networking savvy and have put in the monumental effort to develop secure, anonymous identities. I should focus my efforts on the organization, advisory and "lobbying" front, which is what I'm best at anyway...

I am 100% sincere about my wish to see this team, project or whatever you want to call it get off the ground. Excluding the votes of "franky1", "repentance" and "E&G", who have given us ample reason to become better acquainted with our "Ignore" buttons, if community members are not comfortable with me handling donation money (which is understandable...I'm new here) then we can appoint someone else to manage the accounting for this. At this point I really don't even want to handle other people's donation money because even when I end up doing the right thing with it, as promised, the nonsense, conspiracy theories and slander will continue and it will be counter-productive to the entire effort. So I would suggest we find a veteran community member who has a history of being a reputable trader or money manager here who is willing and able to handle it. I would nominate someone like BCB, who I have seen (personally) can be trusted and is always very courteous and professional. I know there are others like him in this community, though I've never met or traded with them. We should definitely be wary of picking any of the noise-makers and trouble-men hanging around on these forums. Someone who can't carry out a civilized discussion is undeserving of any trust from anyone. So let's please pick someone reliable, honest and respectful whom we can be proud of. I'm still holding that little bit of coin (0.8 BTC) I received earlier and will be adding some more of my own to it to help this project. If any more coin finds its way to the address I posted (1Cr3MTEQxruNimtdCBbUBvDtZFmcW7gHSs) it will be visible in the block-chain and I will make sure every satoshi (and then some) goes to the right place -- be it directly to the effort itself or, preferably, to a delegated accountant whom we can rely on to make good use of it.

I have a nice little chunk of change in the wallet the donation address belongs to and it's ready to be used in this effort when people start stepping up to help with the website, lobbying efforts and other things we need done. If/when we select an accountant I will gladly surrender the 3rd party 0.80 BTC donation and my own 0.941 BTC "matching" contribution to that person, and any other coin the address receives (if any) and permanently remove this burden from my shoulders.

Block-chain info can be found here:
http://blockchain.info/address/1Cr3MTEQxruNimtdCBbUBvDtZFmcW7gHSs

Note that I tried to make a testing transaction of 1.00 BTC earlier today and then noticed the network deducted the 0.80 BTC donation received from that donation address. So I had first 1.00 BTC and then 0.741 BTC credited back to the donation address I created to put it back and include a donation of my own to it (totaling 0.941 BTC). Prepared to donate more when help is found...

Regards,

--ATC--

P.S. :: Will be pushing hard to produce some tangible results on the Paypal front. Going to spend some more time writing tomorrow and post it ASAP for peer review.

Great Incentive. . And beware starting an incentive like this you are going to get attacked by people who fare by fraud .. " bare assertion fallacy"  .  . very useful. .

that's probably what adam lanza thought too.

You're missing the point.  You post on your company's FB page using your personal FB account which contains photos which convey an image which is anything but professional.

http://www.facebook.com/aaron.carter.7374480/photos_stream

Whether in Bitcoinland or elsewhere, one of the first things people want to do when dealing with a new company is get a sense of who the people behind that company are.  It's not "stalking", its due diligence.  None of the photos on your FB create an impression of you being "professional" - quite the reverse. You might as well have photos on there of you in your pyjamas swilling beer.

I don't care what you share with your friends on FB, but if you want to create an aura of credibility and professionalism then use a separate "personal" account which doesn't contain images of you looking like a hillbilly survivalist spree killer when posting on your company's FB.

guys just hold off.. let this thread die, and if this dude truly has some tangeable skills in fraud detection, and skills to persuade corporations lets wait for it to happen.

he like many of us all wants a better world. but from a business investment point of view, its not worth it. id advice everyone to support him with advice and tips, but not money.

this guy sets up a ATC facebook page less then a month ago. no business listings, no website.. its too obvious to even continue pointing out to the guy with his failings. i surely hope he does not reply with more waffling defences without substance.

let this thread die and let the guy spend a few weeks planning a new way to ask for donations.
hopefully he only replies again on this thread with some tangeable information. which is not simply a complaint that he got personally scammed and wants money to go on a quest to cure all the scamming ills of the world.

and heres some tips for him to work on.
email teaching paypal of the un-corruptible "proof of delivery" that is known as the blockchain
email containing data about how paypal has blocked countries due to high scams happening in those countries.
email containing a request to get a name of a customer services supervisor as the number one contact point for anything bitcoin related.

ill leave him to work out why and how this stuff would be important. just to see if he already has the knowledge and skills to work out how to approach a corporation.

Whatever... I'm leaving now to go visit my family and I'll be back later.

But if you're going to start stalking me on Facebook and trying to slander me in every way possible now (and who knows what else) then don't accuse me of being the one trying to harm people, because you're trying to harm me now... totally uncalled for... If this is the way the community treats people then I fear Bitcoin isn't ever going to live up to its potential...

Oh, I wasn't aware that collecting guns was bad? 

Only at gunpoint. 








Oh... Well....