Topic: Anti-Fraud Team -- Help Wanted - page 3. (Read 8500 times)

From your website (Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/ATCEnterprisesInc/info ...


... yet you defend not using $10 USD of your own money to even register a domain name. And, all the activity shown to date with your newly founded enterprise centers around Bitcoin.

Pretend for a second your name is Bob Smith. With all the evidence presented to date, would you seriously deal with this Aaron Carter?

~Bruno K~

Wow... just... wow...

Dude, I'm going to visit my grandmother and my extended family tonight whom I haven't seen all year and we're exchanging some Christmas gifts. I really don't have time for making a rebuttal of outrageous conspiracy theories about white knights and such... but I'll be back in late tonight.

I have already contacted Paypal and eBay both. But I'm not even close to having done enough. It's a lot of work, and work takes time. This doesn't just materialize out of thin air, by magic. You seem totally unwilling to hold off on your wild conspiracy theories and let me work and accomplish something... instead, you're drawing my focus away from the thing that matters...

But as I've already told you numerous times I am working on it and I WILL post the results of my correspondence with them. What I have sent them so far is evidence I have gathered on behalf of those who (including myself) have been targeted by the scammers. It contains sensitive account information, and I am not at liberty to post that (could get me in hot water and undo all my efforts). So you're going to have to settle down and exhibit some degree of patience and understanding.

The simple solution to this is just don't donate if you don't like the idea. I've said that already. I have only once proposed donations, and that was in the OP. You're confusing that with my rebuttal of personal attacks and ludicrous accusations. No one has a gun to your head telling you to donate.

With hold your judgements until you actually see something, whether it be negative or positive, and don't accuse someone of something that hasn't actually happened.  

So relax, and I'll see you later...

--ATC--

EDIT ::

WTF? I've asked for NON-monetary support in the form of help with the website, forums, advice/counsel, ideas, et cetera numerous times, whereas I proposed donations once. So again, why don't you contribute something along the lines of help and stop attacking me?

an anti fraud agency is a great idea, dont get me wrong. it is.

but there is more waffle in your last post without substance, have you even contacted paypal? or cpc electronics?

you spout about your atc business yet anyone can google a business and say its theirs. for a guy trying to start an anti-fraud organisation you should atleast know the fundamental things that us experienced guys look out for when weighing up trust.

from the way you have worded your proposals it seems that you have simply read the scam accusations sub forum thread, seen what has most recently happened and then used that info to try acting as a white knight. gaining peoples trust.

you have failed some fundamental points when doing a sales pitch i see more defence over reasons to donate. but no requests for legal advice, corporate advice, evidence that you have changed company policies or anything in progress at this moment, in the past or the future.

please before replying. back away from the computer, have a cup of coffee. sit down and write out a template for a email you would send to paypal or cpc electronics. and post it here aswell as sending it to them. if you want to get the ball rolling then this is your chance.

lets see your skills and strategy at work, you will win trust by showing results. not by spouting waffle. trust has to be earned not taken for granted. especially on the internet where you cant walk up to a person and slap them across the face with a wet fish.

enjoy your coffee and we look forward to seeing the template.

and please please please do not and i sincerely mean this,  do not reply with anything that sounds like this

Actually, you're quite mistaken, sir... with all due respect. 

If you don't trust me that really doesn't matter. You shouldn't be shocked that someone will defend themselves when attacked. You punch me in the face and I punch back...

I haven't made any attempt to "showcase" my knowledge of finance, law and regulation. That doesn't exactly accomplish anything... this is the internet age, and anyone can go read a Wikipedia article and sound like they know what they're talking about.

Yes, I am young and ATC Enterprises is my first corporate venture. But I have over 5 years of planning, learning, research and testing put into it. In any case, it's no concern of yours. We're a small type-S, limited to 100 or less shareholders and we cannot take any new non-accredited investors -- we already have the maximum allowed number to still qualify for SEC exemptions and keep our legal requirements streamlined. The company is being financed and built with the incoming accredited investment capital from accredited investors (millionaires and institutions). So I am not soliciting you to invest (I can't, anyway) and couldn't accept your money and give you shares if you brought me $50k on a silver platter. Leave me be... this is my parade.

The anti-fraud "agency" or "organization" I'm trying to win support for has nothing to do with my company. I have no interest in profiting from it. I don't want to own it. I have other goals and ambitions in my life and a growing work-load. I think it should probably be a non-profit. All I'm trying to do is get the ball rolling.

So again... if you think you have the skill and knowledge to help run something like this then climb aboard and help. Don't trust me? Then don't donate. Stop trying to attack me personally and make useful suggestions and contribute your ideas. You've given me a few, but it's so mixed up with personal vendetta that it harms the quality of your suggestions. Again, I'm very inexperienced in web design and such so I definitely want some help to see this up and running sooner rather than later.

Actions speak louder than words... 

3 failures
1) too much waffle chatter trying to convince that your not after peoples money(guilty always talk to much defending themselves)
2) the only help you require is for someone to make a website to appear transparent
3) you still have not provided evidence that you know anything of financial systems, business/corporation responsibility or any legal knowledge that you could quote to paypal to scare /persuade them into changing their policies.

an anti-fraud business would have a team of people that know how corporations act, they know business/financial laws to know when a company is in breach of their terms/conditions. and they have the PR skills to word things in a way that cant be ignored.

your posts dont read as a business plan requesting legal assistance or people with corporate knowledge to help change the world. it just reads as a guy in his 20's that has never had a business of his own to know about the facts and figures. you just seem to want to grab bitcoins the easy way.

your trying to get us to trust you. what an antifraud company would do is to show proof of work so that there is no trust needed. stop trying to grab donations from a forum, set up a website, start getting paypal to change their policies post their replies on your website and use your website to request donations.

if you cant afford $20 for a website and maybe 20 minutes a day to write a email to the paypal HQ. then you should not be trying to ask for donations for a business plan which only have those 2 requirements.

and you don't have to worry about HTML. i know 10yos that use microsoft word to drop and drag images and tables into position, add hyperlinks and then click file, save it to HTML file type. its as easy as making a newsletter/brochure.

if the community wants an anti-fraud service they want to see people with legal and corporate knowledge or asking to recruit people with that knowledge.. not someone looking to set up a website with a damn donations totaliser.

show us an email that you sent to CPC electronics asking them to take down the website. show us any contact you have made with paypal. then we may consider you as MAYBE, just maybe being worthy of starting an anti-fraud business

Also, I think you guys are right about it being a bad idea to try to take charitable donations for victim relief right now. I'll pull that down, and we'll take another look at the idea when we get more organized. I posted last night in the wees hours of the morning -- totally exhausted from hunting scammers. So perhaps I didn't think that through well enough... I just wanted to be able to help some of these people I feel very sorry for. But will pull it down now and get back to the idea later.

EVERYONE is a scammer... Grandma sent me $100 through Paypal, now she just hit me with a charge-back! E tu, grandma!? 

This type of paranoia and COMPLETE distrust of everyone will be the death of Bitcoin, which is an outcome I'm not willing to accept. I'm a lot smarter than you might think, my friend. If I was going to run a scam or misappropriate money I would have started out with complete anonymity as a goal. I wouldn't have put a real picture of myself on my profile here or left any footprints. I also wouldn't be going after puny little donations. I'd move to a country with no extradition treaty with the US and try to attack worthwhile targets like, hmmm, the NYSE or CME. But since I was raised in a Christian home I would prefer not to face the wrath of God for hurting people. What goes around DOES come around... and even the most ingenious criminals end up paying for what they've done to people. There's no reason to think you'll succeed where men like Pablo Escobar and Bernie Maddoff failed...

So scratch my name off the scammer list. I haven't made any attempt to be anonymous because I want people to find out who I am and what I'm doing. That's generally how one makes a company grow. I am not afraid of law enforcement because I've never stolen from anyone... I'm also not afraid of criminals; I have big guns, a big building and a lot of people at my side. 

I make mistakes like any other mortal, like thinking I could do Bitcoin business over eBay... but I own up to my mistakes and do what I have to do to fix it. In this case I stopped doing all business through their system before increasing our risk of loss and I'm trying to help other people who have lost a lot more than the $30 I may or may not lose.

Instead of trying to start a mudslinging/slander war, how about you help me? If you know about setting up websites I could really use your help. Make suggestions on how to transparently account for donations and show people what we're doing with them. Someone already sent approx $10, which is enough to reserve a domain name I believe. I have money to contribute right away. But I made my point that I am NOT bearing 100% of costs and labor. Ultimately I don't want this to be my full-time job, and want the Bitcoin community to take over. And yes, I am indeed a very persuasive writer and I'll use that skill to pressure Paypal and other companies to help us and bolster support for this new team.

So help me... Let's get a site up NOW. And let's figure out how we can openly and transparently account for donations. Right now I'm holding the money and you can watch the block-chain to see how much I get. All of it will be there to go toward this effort, plus some from my own pocket:

http://blockchain.info/address/1Cr3MTEQxruNimtdCBbUBvDtZFmcW7gHSs

By the way, I thank whoever sent that first 0.80 BTC donation from the bottom of my heart! 

Regards,

--ATC--

P.S. -- I can write server-side code if we make this an ASP.NET website, but I am a horrible web designer... a trained monkey could probably be better with HTML and CSS than me lol. Do we have a good designer or two in the house who wants to help?

bitcoin is made possible by  cryptography

cryptography was created to preserve secrecy and anonymity.

when we have a full bitcoin econony , WITH NO NEED TO CONVERT FIAT TO BITCOIN, this will be a beautiful thing.

At the present time secrecy and anonymity provide fertile grounds for  hackers and scammer activities.

And the point at which bitcoin and fiat meet are a real problem for us all.

DO NOT TRADE BITCOIN FOR ANY PAYMENT FROM THAT CAN BE REVERSED.

MONEYPAK
CREDIT CARDS
BANK TRANSFER
PAYPAL
SERVE
ETC

UNLESS YOU KNOW AND TRUST YOUR TRADING PARTNER.

While you can purse scammers after fact you'll have more luck and less trouble if you vet your trading partners or use some sort of trust system (bitcointalk.org, bitcoin-otc) IN ADVANCE.

Even banks and Paypal do not pursue scammers after the fact.  THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE LOSS - YOU ARE.   They set aside hundreds of millions of dollars of fees paid by merchants that allow them to write off these lossess.  The only thing banks and paypal, etc are concerned with is preventing future fraud as they do have to pay for the present fraud.  That is passed on to the consumer.

Exactly! (I think we crossed posted)

I think you made a grave error by posting the above. What Herodes may have implied as to what you should do at the very least, you kicked to the curb, using the excuse of not wanting to outlay a little bit of money for the necessities, then thereafter went into the discussing-of-scammers mode, trying to cement the idea that your endeavor is not a scam. For the most part, seasoned bitcoiners see right through this.

Regarding the cost factor, we're only talking about the price of a domain name and monthly hosting. About $100 USD a year, whereupon you'll only have to shell out less than $10 for the domain name and host on HostGator for only a penny for the first month. Put in a little time to splash together a website, and then you would have had a few coins trickling in to pay for the next month's hosting fee.

You have a great command of the English language, and it seems like you were in the process of getting a following, but you may have hit a snag with this noble cause. Case in point, you only had about a dozen feedbacks on your eBay account, with the last one being a negative tick, yet you were able to generate sales of Bitcoin items regardless as to why you receive it--you had pneumonia.

Furthermore, it seems like there's a myriad of ATC Enterprises, Inc., entities throughout the nation, with you only recently filing papers to operate in Louisiana. ATC Enterprises, Inc. http://www.facebook.com/ATCEnterprisesInc/info

http://www.facebook.com/ATCEnterprisesInc

its more to do with the fact that in MANY countries have it so that charities cannot accept a donation until they are registered. businesses cannot trade until they are registered. and insurance companies cannot trade unless they are registered.

your business plan loosely fits into all three categories. yet you request funds upfront before showing proof of work.

i have invested in ESTABLISHED businesses and in businesses which show some actual assets like a website atleast and qualifications that their goals can be achieved.

knowing that one man cannot change paypals terms and conditions or stop domain sellers from selling domains to scammers to create phishing sites. the chances of funding upfront is low. people are more likely to donate as a thank you for a victorious change to a companies policies.

if you are unwilling to put your own money into the project, then why expect others to? a domain costs less then 2 hours of minimum wage labour.

this is much like the many charities which ask for donations to change the world and only 1% of donations actually achieve anything. check out the bitcoins for goats thread as an example..

Gotcha. No eBay then, no atomicavenue, or any other service that's paypal only.

IOW don't use paypal, already there.

I totally agree. But any charity can be defrauded (*cough* social security *cough*).  


It costs money to buy a domain name, host a server, et cetera... and if I pay for everything out of my pocket and do it all myself there's no reason for anyone to get involved. This just goes to show how BAD scamming is in this community: you don't trust people who want to fight the scammers because you think they're the scammers (and everybody else is too)... I take that as a big confirmation that we need some change...  

Not true.  You can accept PayPal just understand the limits.  Don't accept PayPal from a buyer you don't know or trust.

Why would PayPal do that.  Fraud doesn't cost them anything. The merchant pays.  Making PayPal easy has made it the number one processor on the internet.  PayPal gets all the benefits, merchants pay all the costs.

Now think about this logically if you are PayPal (and making tens of millions a dollars a year in profit for your shareholders) why the hell would you change anything?

then paypal need to update its policy to say. "update your security. hacked accounts wont be insured." or atleast have paypal request a police report from a computer forensics lab along with a crime report. that will stop the scammers.

although an anti-fraud squad is a great idea. getting companies to prevent fraud should be the number one concern, not accepting donations for victims. the OP can legally define himself as the recipient of all donations, because he is a victim of scams in the past.

i dont mind donating time and brainpower to the cause. but i am not going to donate coins.

good luck to the OP in your progress to get change to occur with websites policies.

We should launch a boycott paypal campaign!

Sellers need to stop accepting paypal...eBay has never protected their sellers while extracting all their fees from this same group. Vote with your wallet people.

That about sums it up PayPal wise.

There is an excellent thread buried somewhere by mndrix(?) about how he accomplished amazingly low fraud before PP shut him down (and froze his money for 6 months).