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Topic: ANTMINER S4 Discussion and Support Thread - page 105. (Read 301481 times)

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
Thank you for waiting the compensation and replacement parts related to the problematic PSUs.
We placed the priority in replacing all the PSU and gathering the refund information to include the Bitcoin Address.  
Now the replacement PSU are almost processed and we will be focusing on issuing out the compensation to the effected customers.
We prioritized the RMA Process as #1 Priority, so the S4 will be mining while we process the compensation.  We expect to start sending out the compensation early next week.
Thank you for your understanding and patience.


BITMAIN
Oct. 31st

You made the most logical choice. Thanks for the update!
hero member
Activity: 741
Merit: 514
https://www.bitmain.com
Thank you for waiting the compensation and replacement parts related to the problematic PSUs.
We placed the priority in replacing all the PSU and gathering the refund information to include the Bitcoin Address.  
Now the replacement PSU are almost processed and we will be focusing on issuing out the compensation to the effected customers.
We prioritized the RMA Process as #1 Priority, so the S4 will be mining while we process the compensation.  We expect to start sending out the compensation early next week.
Thank you for your understanding and patience.


BITMAIN
Oct. 31st
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
Bitmain, any updates on down time compensation?
legendary
Activity: 3822
Merit: 2703
Evil beware: We have waffles!
A friend of mine kept having problems with his computer power supplies.  He was using standard surge protector, but not a UPS.  Eventually, after I talked him into it, he bought an APC UPS.  And because of the voltage monitoring and protection, he found out that his voltage went up and down quite a bit.  The UPS had to intervene often to normalize the voltage input.  So, he found out the fluctuation in voltage was causing the problem.  I'm not trying to say this is the reason for any of the reported problems on this forum.  I'm only passing along information for future reference.  Food for thought...

What you are saying is: Buy a good PSU!!! Right!?

Well, that is definitely a good thing, but not what I was saying.  The house wiring had a problem.  But the problem did not trip a breaker or a surge protector.  However, the problem was caught by a battery backup (UPS, Uninterruptible Power Supply).   I'm pointing out one of the benefits of a UPS is to ensure the power line is "clean".  It's too expensive to use UPS's for the miners, however I have all of my computers and networking equipment using UPS.

A UPS (agreed) is overkill for a miner, but voltage protection for such devices is just as important.  For my miners, I use a APC LE1200 voltage regulator.  Most _decent_ UPSes have this capability built-in, but provides the voltage at a constant level while not being a UPS (with all the hassle of one).  Clean power without all the UPS baggage?  Check.  Extra power plugs for multiple devices? Check.  Offset plug for those fscking volt-on-a-ropes?  Check.  Does it work?  Double Check.  Good for all your electronics (TVs, computers, etc)? Check.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Because not all of us have decent power to our homes.
Hmm that looks interesting since the Amazon link does not give the important particulars (and I'm too lazy to look them up) do you know the switching time on voltage changes? I *do* use several large on-line UPS's from Cyberpower http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/paragon-series/ol2200rtxl2u.html for my s2's and s4's - the normal standby ones with AVR use relays to change the voltage taps which glitches the line long enough to kill an S2/4.
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
A friend of mine kept having problems with his computer power supplies.  He was using standard surge protector, but not a UPS.  Eventually, after I talked him into it, he bought an APC UPS.  And because of the voltage monitoring and protection, he found out that his voltage went up and down quite a bit.  The UPS had to intervene often to normalize the voltage input.  So, he found out the fluctuation in voltage was causing the problem.  I'm not trying to say this is the reason for any of the reported problems on this forum.  I'm only passing along information for future reference.  Food for thought...

What you are saying is: Buy a good PSU!!! Right!?

Well, that is definitely a good thing, but not what I was saying.  The house wiring had a problem.  But the problem did not trip a breaker or a surge protector.  However, the problem was caught by a battery backup (UPS, Uninterruptible Power Supply).   I'm pointing out one of the benefits of a UPS is to ensure the power line is "clean".  It's too expensive to use UPS's for the miners, however I have all of my computers and networking equipment using UPS.

A UPS (agreed) is overkill for a miner, but voltage protection for such devices is just as important.  For my miners, I use a APC LE1200 voltage regulator.  Most _decent_ UPSes have this capability built-in, but provides the voltage at a constant level while not being a UPS (with all the hassle of one).  Clean power without all the UPS baggage?  Check.  Extra power plugs for multiple devices? Check.  Offset plug for those fscking volt-on-a-ropes?  Check.  Does it work?  Double Check.  Good for all your electronics (TVs, computers, etc)? Check.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Because not all of us have decent power to our homes.



This is a great idea - could it handle numerous PSUs? I'd want to plug 4 S3's into it, and then an S4 into one on its own probably.
legendary
Activity: 3822
Merit: 2703
Evil beware: We have waffles!
As for US residential powerlines... this should be a major design concern for Bitmain or any other miner mfgr because PSU's do NOT like low lines... In Detroit area home power is 110v - not 120 - and during summer will often drop to 100-105v. The '220v' incoming reflects the same drops. This year it got so bad (hit 95v for 2 weeks) I had to wire in a boost transformer to make up the difference...

I'm not sure anything can be done for that. The vast majority of the market doesn't have that problem, and one which will affect all electronics.

'All electronics' - and more. Gas clothes dryers and stoves did not want to work either because the igniters would not come up to temp...

In this instance the problem only really affects PSU's being pushed to near max output. What to be done? Easy answer, appropriately de-rate the PSUs like HP did with their CS server PSU's so it can run on a low line and still produce required power. Then it is just a matter of balancing cost/benefit. Frankly, given how vocal folks can be here when there is an issue I'd err on making sure they can go down to at least 100v to cover wiring in old homes & apartments.

1400w miners aren't designed for old homes and apartments, and its not fair to make every customer pay another $20 a unit for that small minority. Frankly I'm surprised your derating problem is even legal in the US.
They may not be designed for old homes/neighborhoods but without a caveat about that you know folks will buy them and try to use them there... As for the low voltage being legal, well, MI utility rules say that power must be within +/-10% of nominal. Since our nominal is 110v that means even down to 99v is 'in-spec'.

As for that 2-week spate of 95v (and lower), that was a pure bad timing - a big storm ripped through a couple weeks before taking out power lines, while those were being repaired another big storm rolled through and did the same thing again so I guess we were lucky to have power at all. My whole-house generator got a good workout during that time as I said screw it and killed the main feed into the house until the lines were repaired...
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
A friend of mine kept having problems with his computer power supplies.  He was using standard surge protector, but not a UPS.  Eventually, after I talked him into it, he bought an APC UPS.  And because of the voltage monitoring and protection, he found out that his voltage went up and down quite a bit.  The UPS had to intervene often to normalize the voltage input.  So, he found out the fluctuation in voltage was causing the problem.  I'm not trying to say this is the reason for any of the reported problems on this forum.  I'm only passing along information for future reference.  Food for thought...

What you are saying is: Buy a good PSU!!! Right!?

Well, that is definitely a good thing, but not what I was saying.  The house wiring had a problem.  But the problem did not trip a breaker or a surge protector.  However, the problem was caught by a battery backup (UPS, Uninterruptible Power Supply).   I'm pointing out one of the benefits of a UPS is to ensure the power line is "clean".  It's too expensive to use UPS's for the miners, however I have all of my computers and networking equipment using UPS.

A UPS (agreed) is overkill for a miner, but voltage protection for such devices is just as important.  For my miners, I use a APC LE1200 voltage regulator.  Most _decent_ UPSes have this capability built-in, but provides the voltage at a constant level while not being a UPS (with all the hassle of one).  Clean power without all the UPS baggage?  Check.  Extra power plugs for multiple devices? Check.  Offset plug for those fscking volt-on-a-ropes?  Check.  Does it work?  Double Check.  Good for all your electronics (TVs, computers, etc)? Check.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Because not all of us have decent power to our homes.

sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
Welcome to dogietalk.bs
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 250
A friend of mine kept having problems with his computer power supplies.  He was using standard surge protector, but not a UPS.  Eventually, after I talked him into it, he bought an APC UPS.  And because of the voltage monitoring and protection, he found out that his voltage went up and down quite a bit.  The UPS had to intervene often to normalize the voltage input.  So, he found out the fluctuation in voltage was causing the problem.  I'm not trying to say this is the reason for any of the reported problems on this forum.  I'm only passing along information for future reference.  Food for thought...

What you are saying is: Buy a good PSU!!! Right!?

Well, that is definitely a good thing, but not what I was saying.  The house wiring had a problem.  But the problem did not trip a breaker or a surge protector.  However, the problem was caught by a battery backup (UPS, Uninterruptible Power Supply).   I'm pointing out one of the benefits of a UPS is to ensure the power line is "clean".  It's too expensive to use UPS's for the miners, however I have all of my computers and networking equipment using UPS.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1031
A friend of mine kept having problems with his computer power supplies.  He was using standard surge protector, but not a UPS.  Eventually, after I talked him into it, he bought an APC UPS.  And because of the voltage monitoring and protection, he found out that his voltage went up and down quite a bit.  The UPS had to intervene often to normalize the voltage input.  So, he found out the fluctuation in voltage was causing the problem.  I'm not trying to say this is the reason for any of the reported problems on this forum.  I'm only passing along information for future reference.  Food for thought...

What you are saying is: Buy a good PSU!!! Right!?
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 250
A friend of mine kept having problems with his computer power supplies.  He was using standard surge protector, but not a UPS.  Eventually, after I talked him into it, he bought an APC UPS.  And because of the voltage monitoring and protection, he found out that his voltage went up and down quite a bit.  The UPS had to intervene often to normalize the voltage input.  So, he found out the fluctuation in voltage was causing the problem.  I'm not trying to say this is the reason for any of the reported problems on this forum.  I'm only passing along information for future reference.  Food for thought...
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
hi, please pm or send email to me with your order info, i will doublecheck it. Thanks,

Ive been waiting patiently since JUNE for compensation which bitmain had finally offered to pay for four dead PSUs (actually i RMAd the first one, but the replacemnet which took 2 weeks was DOA & dented too, so its 5..) after MUCH MUCH struggle and effort

Can you post your order number so it can be looked at please? [or PM to Tim]

im not in the US

i have sent all relevant details to bitmain - as i stated we have exchnanged over 400 emails. most of them utter stupidity, usually repeatedly.

i am now at the point that only actual compensation as offered previously will suffice.

i have enough shit antminer junk in my home, i am able to read and as such will never accept another dangerous (3 month BS warranty) rig from bitmain.

four S2s = FOUR DEAD PSUs + 1 more PSU that was RMA'd and arrived dirty, dented and only able to power 9 blades.ffs!

multiple dead/failing boards have been RMA'd - some were ok, others not.

a Dead power board has been RMA'd - an equally shit & filthy one was sent

a dead control board has been RMA'd - it works but arrived absolutely FILTHY.

he's refused to replace the buckled fans & the dead LED screen and to be quite honest the last blade needing RMA'd has just sat gathering dust despite having been sent a shipping label. Its just more messing around to be sent yet another already RMA'd piece of shit.

so now ive repeated myself to you too, what do you suggest?

more order numbers?

more screen grabs?

Tell 'Tim'?

ZZzzzzzzz....


legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1001
Ive been waiting patiently since JUNE for compensation which bitmain had finally offered to pay for four dead PSUs (actually i RMAd the first one, but the replacemnet which took 2 weeks was DOA & dented too, so its 5..) after MUCH MUCH struggle and effort

Can you post your order number so it can be looked at please? [or PM to Tim]

im not in the US

i have sent all relevant details to bitmain - as i stated we have exchnanged over 400 emails. most of them utter stupidity, usually repeatedly.

i am now at the point that only actual compensation as offered previously will suffice.

i have enough shit antminer junk in my home, i am able to read and as such will never accept another dangerous (3 month BS warranty) rig from bitmain.

four S2s = FOUR DEAD PSUs + 1 more PSU that was RMA'd and arrived dirty, dented and only able to power 9 blades.ffs!

multiple dead/failing boards have been RMA'd - some were ok, others not.

a Dead power board has been RMA'd - an equally shit & filthy one was sent

a dead control board has been RMA'd - it works but arrived absolutely FILTHY.

he's refused to replace the buckled fans & the dead LED screen and to be quite honest the last blade needing RMA'd has just sat gathering dust despite having been sent a shipping label. Its just more messing around to be sent yet another already RMA'd piece of shit.

so now ive repeated myself to you too, what do you suggest?

more order numbers?

more screen grabs?

Tell 'Tim'?

ZZzzzzzzz....

newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
yep, i will try to confirm if you can get your miner swapped with BitmainWarranty for diagnostics.  
There should be some normal procedures, but we will try to find a better solution for u considering your situation.
Please pm me about this.  

I have not received a response from BITMAIN support in over 48 hours.
Will be answered soon, and / or Tim will expedite it.

In my email, I  apologized for getting so upset
Thats not a problem, won't affect anything.

you're going to need to do an RMA to replace the PSU for the second time
From what you suggested before, it didn't sound like a PSU issue as your non Bitmain PSU was also not able to power the miner, correct? If you're in the US then BITMAIN_warranty can do a unit swap for you.
I can't believe I'm saying this but I think I like you now! ;-) I am indeed in the U.S., and if this is possible (a full unit swap) that would be fucking AWESOME! Please let me know how I can go about this process so I can edit my posts and not harm your (BITMAIN's) reputation further.
ZiG
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Maybe, maybe not. A lot of places in the world suffer from brownouts which can bring voltage plummeting down to ~90v. For anywhere in Canada/USA to be a constant 100v instead of 120v to me is ridiculous. Detroit is a special situation though, I suppose.

I'm fortunate enough to have one of the best electrical utility companies in the world (Hydro Quebec) servicing me, so I don't have to worry about low voltage situations. I draw a constant ~100-120A from my 200A home electrical installation, and still show 118v/236v at the wall. That being said, I would gladly pay an extra $20 per miner if it meant having an actual quality PSU in the unit. When it comes down to it, these high wattage power supplies almost have enough current to arc weld. I have absolutely no faith in a no-name Chinese power supply company, and my worries were proven right with the S4. I don't care if it's made in China, as long as it caries a known brand name with specs and reputation that I can look up. I'll pay extra every day if it means getting a hassle free PSU from the likes of Seasonic, Flextronics, Delta, Super Flower, etc. Apluspower Co. doesn't inspire any faith at all, and is a fire hazard in my books.

I'd like to believe that the revised power supplies from B2 will solve the issue, but there have already been reports of burnt out/DOA PSUs. I'll be replacing mine with 2000w Deltas to be safe, and when I sell them they will still have working OEM PSUs.

Its worth noting that there is nothing wrong with those B1 PSUs for computer use - the problem was caused by the unusual loading pattern miners have. This turned would would be considered sensible cost saving [/earlier development] into a failure mode.

Unusual pattern or not, if it was a quality unit it would have handled the loads. There was a lack of engineering somewhere along the line at Apluspower Co. that resulted in them failing where a proper PSU would not have failed.

This, I guess.

Dogie...enough excuses ...please... Grin

ZiG

EDIT...: Hope that you COULD do BETTER ...to earn your salary, buddy... Grin Huh
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Maybe, maybe not. A lot of places in the world suffer from brownouts which can bring voltage plummeting down to ~90v. For anywhere in Canada/USA to be a constant 100v instead of 120v to me is ridiculous. Detroit is a special situation though, I suppose.

I'm fortunate enough to have one of the best electrical utility companies in the world (Hydro Quebec) servicing me, so I don't have to worry about low voltage situations. I draw a constant ~100-120A from my 200A home electrical installation, and still show 118v/236v at the wall. That being said, I would gladly pay an extra $20 per miner if it meant having an actual quality PSU in the unit. When it comes down to it, these high wattage power supplies almost have enough current to arc weld. I have absolutely no faith in a no-name Chinese power supply company, and my worries were proven right with the S4. I don't care if it's made in China, as long as it caries a known brand name with specs and reputation that I can look up. I'll pay extra every day if it means getting a hassle free PSU from the likes of Seasonic, Flextronics, Delta, Super Flower, etc. Apluspower Co. doesn't inspire any faith at all, and is a fire hazard in my books.

I'd like to believe that the revised power supplies from B2 will solve the issue, but there have already been reports of burnt out/DOA PSUs. I'll be replacing mine with 2000w Deltas to be safe, and when I sell them they will still have working OEM PSUs.

Its worth noting that there is nothing wrong with those B1 PSUs for computer use - the problem was caused by the unusual loading pattern miners have. This turned would would be considered sensible cost saving [/earlier development] into a failure mode.

Unusual pattern or not, if it was a quality unit it would have handled the loads. There was a lack of engineering somewhere along the line at Apluspower Co. that resulted in them failing where a proper PSU would not have failed.

This, I guess.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
Maybe, maybe not. A lot of places in the world suffer from brownouts which can bring voltage plummeting down to ~90v. For anywhere in Canada/USA to be a constant 100v instead of 120v to me is ridiculous. Detroit is a special situation though, I suppose.

I'm fortunate enough to have one of the best electrical utility companies in the world (Hydro Quebec) servicing me, so I don't have to worry about low voltage situations. I draw a constant ~100-120A from my 200A home electrical installation, and still show 118v/236v at the wall. That being said, I would gladly pay an extra $20 per miner if it meant having an actual quality PSU in the unit. When it comes down to it, these high wattage power supplies almost have enough current to arc weld. I have absolutely no faith in a no-name Chinese power supply company, and my worries were proven right with the S4. I don't care if it's made in China, as long as it caries a known brand name with specs and reputation that I can look up. I'll pay extra every day if it means getting a hassle free PSU from the likes of Seasonic, Flextronics, Delta, Super Flower, etc. Apluspower Co. doesn't inspire any faith at all, and is a fire hazard in my books.

I'd like to believe that the revised power supplies from B2 will solve the issue, but there have already been reports of burnt out/DOA PSUs. I'll be replacing mine with 2000w Deltas to be safe, and when I sell them they will still have working OEM PSUs.

Its worth noting that there is nothing wrong with those B1 PSUs for computer use - the problem was caused by the unusual loading pattern miners have. This turned would would be considered sensible cost saving [/earlier development] into a failure mode.

Unusual pattern or not, if it was a quality unit it would have handled the loads. There was a lack of engineering somewhere along the line at Apluspower Co. that resulted in them failing where a proper PSU would not have failed. The day my S4's PSU died, I ordered a replacement Delta DPS-2000 for it and also for my newer B2 S4. I know the Delta unit will handle the loading pattern without issue, as any well built PSU should. I would expect consumer grade PSUs to handle the load also, so long as they are quality units from Seasonic, Felx, etc.

To be clear, I'm not bashing Bitmain. They are not power supply manufacturers, and I'm sure they took A+ at their word that their PSU's would be sufficient to properly power the S4. A+ is to blame here, IMO.

I bought my DPS-2000 for $30 on ebay. If I'm not mistaken, they were introduced on the server market about 5 years ago and cost somewhere in the 4 digits range. While it's used, and requires cooling be provided externally, it's a much safer bet than anything A+ could ever muster. Maybe in the future Bitmain would be better off integrating an unconventional used server PSU in their units. It doesn't get any better than a server PSU from the likes of Delta, Zippy, etc. Even when used.
full member
Activity: 173
Merit: 104
Rather disappointing on the support part of this thread regarding the firmware.  If I understand correctly from reading the past couple of pages, the firmware is dated 10/16, but not posted until 10/27.  CK has implemented a work around / fix in the mean time and the folks being paid to answer support on this thread can't say whether or not BM fixed the problem in their firmware that CK had to fix to get the machines to function properly on pools that use var diff.  Does that about sum it up?

Being dated 10/16 means it was locked and submitted for testing around that date, so even if the engineers had been aware of CK's version (which they weren't until today), it wouldn't have gone in this firmware. I don't believe CK's fix fixes all pools / the difficulty problem entirely (Huh), but it likely includes other small bug fixes that haven't been included yet. They're comparing code now.
I submitted the fixes I had to a bitmain engineer and they were merged in this s4-fixup branch here:

https://github.com/jameshilliard/cgminer/commits/s4-fixup

So they know about all the tweaks and changes I did to make the binary work. Note the commits are dated 18th October. Whether they decide to use them in their master branch here:
https://github.com/bitmaintech/cgminer/commits/master

Is a different story, and it certainly does not look like they did.

Yes my changes do fix diff handling on ALL pools.
You are a kind, amazing person for doing what you have done.  I wish that I could power on my S4 and update the firmware to yours, but apparently that is never going to happen.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 1000
★The Best Adult Video Chat Platform★
Good luck it took me over 2 months to convince them I had a bad s1 then when the did finally send me replacement blades both of those had even worse issues but they wouldn't do anything about it.  Took weeks to convince them both my s3 units were bad as well.  Now I have 2 more that are starting to exhibit the same issues the other 2 did new.  It's just not worth trying to deal with their "support" and the extended down time for an RMA.  Glad I stayed away from the S4.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Rather disappointing on the support part of this thread regarding the firmware.  If I understand correctly from reading the past couple of pages, the firmware is dated 10/16, but not posted until 10/27.  CK has implemented a work around / fix in the mean time and the folks being paid to answer support on this thread can't say whether or not BM fixed the problem in their firmware that CK had to fix to get the machines to function properly on pools that use var diff.  Does that about sum it up?

Being dated 10/16 means it was locked and submitted for testing around that date, so even if the engineers had been aware of CK's version (which they weren't until today), it wouldn't have gone in this firmware. I don't believe CK's fix fixes all pools / the difficulty problem entirely (Huh), but it likely includes other small bug fixes that haven't been included yet. They're comparing code now.
I submitted the fixes I had to a bitmain engineer and they were merged in this s4-fixup branch here:

https://github.com/jameshilliard/cgminer/commits/s4-fixup

So they know about all the tweaks and changes I did to make the binary work. Note the commits are dated 18th October. Whether they decide to use them in their master branch here:
https://github.com/bitmaintech/cgminer/commits/master

Is a different story, and it certainly does not look like they did.

Yes my changes do fix diff handling on ALL pools.

Thanks, passed it on.

PS while you're, found the most minor description blip:

Quote
--rock-freq    Set RockMiner frequency in MHz, range 200-400 (default: 270)
Quote
--rock-freq    Set RockMiner frequency in MHz, range 125-500 (default: 270)
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