Topic: Anything sustainable worth of investing? - page 19. (Read 38168 times)

We used bitcoin investment to buy cheap houses to renovate and then rent out to people in the midwest US.

We're on Havelock, have been in operation since July 2013.

Rentalstarter? How does that work?

The big problem with the big ventures (Specifically something like coinbase) is they USUALLY have access to quality VC, which means there's no reason to deal with crowd investors.

With RS, we have had little options up until recently with alternative investments, so bitcoin was a very viable way of attracting reasonable investment in a short time frame. Additionally with being a real estate startup, and one that isn't simply property management or a simple leveraged property, ROIs are much longer term, but still there.

lmao.  too true too true!

The few and far between legitimate stocks that I've come across (cryptsy, rentalstarter) haven't even really ROI'd at this point nor are they likely too anytime soon.  If your fortunate enough to know a big enough fish that has the wherewithall to pull off the next coinbase and manage to invest in him/her early then you might get lucky, but no, for the most part majority of bitcoin related securities in my experience have been mostly booty.

if you do your research you can find a few gems.

No!

If you stay away from bitcoin securities you'll have more money.

Hah, yes, I understand crypto s a very fertile ground for scams and ponzies. This is the reason why we have such a limited growth after all.

Possibly there are a few out of the hundreds of scams.  The problem is that you won't know until after the fact.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Definitely not.

If you look at most hashing organizations, and then look at historical difficulty, growth of bitcoin and the like it SHOULD be pretty apparent to people that if you want a solid investment (Not one for churn and burn) then there really aren't any mining companies out there that has a sustainable business, because mining in of itself isn't overly sustainable in a long term way unless you have severe capital and hardware infrastructure. Usually if you have those two you don't have to rely on internet investors in exchanges.

I certainly wouldn't say that all businesses are in violation of the SEC rules, believe it or not, some companies on the market do retain legal advisory and they've indicated that deals CAN be structured legally to accept investment.

SEC's A+ system is by far one of the best things to happen to crowdfunding in the US. The requirements are absolutely fantastic, and terms are great to small businesses who are starting up. Granted, out of all the businesses on HL, cryptostocks and the like, very few will be able to meet the requirements (We will be one of the few that is eligible and will go for A+ as soon as the SEC rules are finalized in 60 days).

Additionally, it hasn't helped the bitcoin ecosystem that most investors as well as issuers want to retain as much anonymity as possible. A honest question that people need to ask is how many issuers can you think of could be reached by phone or physical mail during the startup and issuing phases of business? I can't think of many, almost all of them were email addresses, and websites and nothing more. Sure some had names, but most people successfully faded into the background once their scam was complete, or the business faltered.

With A+ there's certainly going to be more investor protections, but people will need to realize that the average startup failure is in the 60% range already, and with new tech it's even higher. Rewards are certainly high, but i can't think of any bitcoin-specific entities that have done quite well, granted a few  are still establishing themselves and haven't collapsed yet.

I have to say I am really worried about this entire economy. It s true that we re still in the early stages of development of meaningfull crypto securities markets but NOTHING. I guess it s in human nature to scam if allowed to do so.

For something to be sustainable you need a company that can actually generate bitcoins AND that you can trust to not screw you over. You need to trust them not to screw you over, in general, which appears to be hard enough, AND you need to find someone so trustworthy that they won't screw you over under the immense pressure to screw you over that would come up if the price goes up significantly.

It doesn't really make sense to invest in someone that's going to sell the coins to get cash to do something, because they will not be able to pay back your coins if the price goes up. And it appears that it's been almost if not completely impossible to find someone trustworthy enough.

So you are telling me this entire industry consist of mining, exchanges and hoarding???

I dont think there are no sustainable crypto currency denominated stocks.

They dont have to be  scam but sometimes its just lack of management skills or changing nature of BTC related businesses (mining: wrong design ; late delivery).
So, even if you find some company which seems pretty legit and trusthworthy, this doesnt mean it will go forever.

Im not taking this risk anymore. Trading altcoin , investing innovative altcoin make much more sense and less risky to me. Before investor protection by laws, I will just stay away from BTC stocks or businesses.

I afraid so. A business which looks profitable and sustainable could turn into a scam any minute. An investor had no way to know that beforehand. The only way to verify authenticity of a business is to make a visit to the address and see for yourself. This is difficult since bitcoin businesses could be anywhere in the world.

It is not the time yet for bitcoin denominated investments. I expect them to be more a few years down the road.

put simply; NOP

I'm hoping the new SEC crowdfunding rules (i.e. start-ups are now able to raise up to $50m from non-accredited investors) will help.

Part of the problem, put simply, is that only people willing to break the law have been involved in offering BTC securities to date (because, duh, public offer rules are enormously restrictive -- 99% of BTC offerings are illegal).  Invaraibly, inevitably, they are exactly the sort of people willing to run with funds or otherwise shaft investors.  Welcome to Libertaria.

Hopefully we'll see more bona fide start-ups raising BTC funding in legit public offerings in future.  Start-ups with real people who make real disclosures and who are subject to real due diligence.  Some will fail, of course, but that's the nature of high risk, high return investments.

How can we expect BTC ecosystem to develop then. If there s nothing we can actually invest in??

I wish there was. The only decent investment that I have found is Bitfinex (lending BTC/USD there), and I'm not even sure about that one.

I fully agree but I would appreciate examples inside the BTC economy. So we can help these honest people can funding for their projects and deny the same to scammers.