Please the read the hint. It's a special case this one. ;-)
Topic: ApopheniaBTC - Bet and solve the challenges to win BTC. - page 26. (Read 58241 times)
Here is a new picture:
Please the read the hint. It's a special case this one. ;-)
Please the read the hint. It's a special case this one. ;-)
Are you going to be implementing hard pictures with higher pots?
Yes and yes but I can't really tell you when. :-)
Well done to whoever solved frozen synapse!
Are you going to be implementing hard pictures with higher pots?
I added your sig. What font and text color are you using?
I think you got it nicely but FYI this is the BBcode:
Code:
[size=14pt][glow=black,2]__[url=http://apopheniabtc.com?partner=forumsig][color=orange]ApopheniaBTC - Win [btc] for solving challenges![/color][/url]__[/glow][/size]
Instead of "forumsig" you put your bitcoin address of course.
I added your sig. What font and text color are you using?
(You did misunderstand most of it, so I removed that part of the answer from here).
The fact that you can distribute the answer is always ok to me, as that is not really easily solvable. But you can make it provably for the players (it is a different matter from the point in the previous phrase) by doing the method I just described.
Take the last image in your site, suppose you can modify it such that it turns out to be either "3" or "8". If someone makes a guess for 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, etc you change it as you wish to make it easier. If someone guesses "8" and it comes from an address you dislike, you can change the image such that all the previous guesses are valid, while invalidating "8" as a answer at the same time. I hope it is clear how currently it is not provably fair to anyone, but you can make it provably fair for the players.
Aaaaah now I get what you're saying. I thought you were talking about me changing the correct answer but you mean me changing the picture. That's a problem with textual images only of course, I can't change a film image as this would be an obvious change. Also even in the textual images the text is big enough for any change to be visible. Don't forget that pictures are updated every ~10 minutes so the progression of every update is slow enough for big changes in the origin picture to be visible. But still, yeah, that can be solved without requiring people to download and compare successive progressions of the pictures. IIRC the random name of the pictures is some sort of hash of the contents+filename of the original picture but that picture is never released, only the B&W version of it so the hash doesn't match. I'll see what I can do about this.
(Nope, just checked the names are completely random.)
Also note that I'm not attacking you, just pointing out a fact.
Did I sound defensive in the striked-through text? If so, I didn't mean to. :-)
Here's one more pic. It's a textual one:
Hi there, I enjoy things related to images in general, so I enjoy checking these pictures too.
My issue with your system is that an image can possibly have multiple distinct answers, and we would never know given the current method. Couldn't you: 1) encrypt the original image with a certain secret, 2) publish the hash of that secret together with the url of the encrypted image (so people can download the encrypted image for checking later), and then after someone gets the answer you 3) release the secret ?
When an image is solved or expired, you open it and click on it to load the clean version. Also when the correct answer is given, you can see ALL the correct answers in the image's window. Go to apophenia and click the "blue screen of death" picture. You'll notice that both "blue screen of death and bsod is mentioned in the answers section.
(You did misunderstand most of it, so I removed that part of the answer from here).
The fact that you can distribute the answer is always ok to me, as that is not really easily solvable. But you can make it provably for the players (it is a different matter from the point in the previous phrase) by doing the method I just described.
Take the last image in your site, suppose you can modify it such that it turns out to be either "3" or "8". If someone makes a guess for 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, etc you change it as you wish to make it easier. If someone guesses "8" and it comes from an address you dislike, you can change the image such that all the previous guesses are valid, while invalidating "8" as a answer at the same time. I hope it is clear how currently it is not provably fair to anyone, but you can make it provably fair for the players.
Also note that I'm not attacking you, just pointing out a fact.
Here's one more pic. It's a textual one:
Hi there, I enjoy things related to images in general, so I enjoy checking these pictures too.
My issue with your system is that an image can possibly have multiple distinct answers, and we would never know given the current method. Couldn't you: 1) encrypt the original image with a certain secret, 2) publish the hash of that secret together with the url of the encrypted image (so people can download the encrypted image for checking later), and then after someone gets the answer you 3) release the secret ?
Pro: You would be sure that I ain't changing answers during the whole process.
Con: Some times someone places an answer that SHOULD be correct but I had made a mistake and didn't include it. In some of this cases I edit the answers to include the missing answer. That system would make it impossible for me to correct legitimate errors on my correct answers. Also while you can see those answers click again on the big picture. It will clean up.
It's not worth it in my opinion. If you are worried that I am cleaning the answers for some reason, you have to worry even more about me telling my friends the correct answers or answering the pictures myself to steal the pot. I've given this a lot of thought and I think there is absolutely no way to make Apophenia provably fair. The biggest problem is the fact that I (or someone) will always know the answers.
Even the https://apopheniabtc.com/txs.php mostly exist to provide information and not give a false sense of fairness to people. Sure know it's probably hard for me to hide bets but I don't need to hide bets in the first place if I wanted to cheat.
I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Hehe.
When an image is solved or expired, you open it and click on it to load the clean version. Also when the correct answer is given, you can see ALL the correct answers in the image's window. Go to apophenia and click the "blue screen of death" picture. You'll notice that both "blue screen of death and bsod is mentioned in the answers section.
Quote
Is your method for modifying images available somewhere ? I realize I might be asking too much here..
No it's just a custom piece of code that I wrote while experimenting with different kinds of distorting images. the general idea is to convert pixels in the picture into triangles of the same color. Add a second shadow image, some transparency into some of those triangles and you've got the effect you see. Oh and as times passes, those triangles get smaller and smaller until they become the pixels they were created from and the whole pictures gets clear. Oh and the shadow image also moves towards the base image so it isn't visible anymore.
how long do we have to wait until the bet confirms?
Bets are checked after one network confirmation + ~1 minute. So on average your bet will be checked in 11 minutes. It could go much higher than that though if the network doesn't produce blocks or if your bet doesn't get into any block.
In any case bets are prioritized by first by the block they appeared and secondly by the time they were placed. If you don't include any fee and you don't get included in the next lets say two block and someone else bets the same thing and includes a fee so he does get included in the next block, he will win. If you both get included in the same block, the first bet wins.
But I don't see any recent bet. The last one is "battleship" which has been checked and is included in the "wrong answers" of the game picture. Is that the bet you're talking about?
Here's one more pic. It's a textual one:
Hi there, I enjoy things related to images in general, so I enjoy checking these pictures too.
My issue with your system is that an image can possibly have multiple distinct answers, and we would never know given the current method. Couldn't you: 1) encrypt the original image with a certain secret, 2) publish the hash of that secret together with the url of the encrypted image (so people can download the encrypted image for checking later), and then after someone gets the answer you 3) release the secret ?
For example, to me the latest image looks like something with two digits between 30 and 40 (free tips, although that might be completely incorrect), but maybe it is just the apophenia effect kicking in
It also could be something totally different.Is your method for modifying images available somewhere ? I realize I might be asking too much here..
how long do we have to wait until the bet confirms?
Here's one more pic. It's a textual one:
The last picture is not getting any easier soon. I hope some more pictures will come available soon.
Really like this site, so far I've only solved one but always checking for new photos
What does Need the Title mean?
Was stuck on that one too, it would be great if you could add more puzzles
I was thinking that practically any kind of hint will give you more chances to win than having to ability to double bet each time your bet. Imagine this case:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"
What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"
What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.
When you put it like this, I agree that hints should cost more than a bet. I was thinking more about vague hints when I said they should be cheap. So the example you gave would look something like this:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The 1st paid hint is: "it's a first-person shooter"
The 2nd paid hint is: "it's a multiplayer game"
The 3rd paid hint is: "it was first released in 2007"
and so on...
Hints should also get more expensive as time passes, so it would be encouraged to buy them early on. First hints could also be cheaper than the next ones.
I think I'm going to try this. I will start adding paid hints to some pictures while leaving other only with the free hint. I'll need some time to make this though.
Nice! I'd really like to see your site succeed, there are just too many dice and casino sites out there (just don't look at my sig, lol).
Since you mentioned forum signatures, and for everyone's information, I've set up a referral system. To access your custom URL just place ANY bet (you don't have to pay, just place it and use a valid bitcoin address for it, one that you own) and you'll get a referral URL for that address.
Even if you don't include a free hint anymore and only paid hints. This would mean people would either wait until they know what the picture is, which makes it more competition between each player has the later it gets, the more people actually bid. Or, they can buy the hint early on and get a head start.
Also, this game one. Is very hard at the moment.
Also, this game one. Is very hard at the moment.
I feel that an advanced picture hint would
I start to like this idea.
Even if you don't include a free hint anymore and only paid hints. This would mean people would either wait until they know what the picture is, which makes it more competition between each player has the later it gets, the more people actually bid. Or, they can buy the hint early on and get a head start.
Also, this game one. Is very hard at the moment.
Also, this game one. Is very hard at the moment.
I was thinking that practically any kind of hint will give you more chances to win than having to ability to double bet each time your bet. Imagine this case:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"
What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"
What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.
When you put it like this, I agree that hints should cost more than a bet. I was thinking more about vague hints when I said they should be cheap. So the example you gave would look something like this:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The 1st paid hint is: "it's a first-person shooter"
The 2nd paid hint is: "it's a multiplayer game"
The 3rd paid hint is: "it was first released in 2007"
and so on...
Hints should also get more expensive as time passes, so it would be encouraged to buy them early on. First hints could also be cheaper than the next ones.
I think I'm going to try this. I will start adding paid hints to some pictures while leaving other only with the free hint. I'll need some time to make this though.
Nice! I'd really like to see your site succeed, there are just too many dice and casino sites out there (just don't look at my sig, lol).
1. In most pictures a hint will rule out lots of possible answers which might decrease the pot. Maybe I could make a portion of the money go towards the pot but again, wouldn't a hint decrease the
total possible number of guesses? Why guess two or three times, when you can buy a hint and guess once with a higher probability to win?
total possible number of guesses? Why guess two or three times, when you can buy a hint and guess once with a higher probability to win?
But more people would buy hints as long as they're reasonably priced, maybe 10% of the guess price. If half of that goes to the pot and more people participate then the pot might grow quicker.
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"
What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.
Cryptic hints would be even more helpful in my opinion. Consider the same scenario but the paid hint is: "Need a ... here."
With that hint all you have to do is start guessing random games and seeing if this hint makes sense. When you reach TF2, you will notice that the hint makes perfect sense. Even if this guesswork doesn't work, chances are that the hint will be at least an excellent confirmation mechanism before you place for a bet. Does the hint make sense? If not, don't bet. That will save you a lot of money, even more than a hint like "it's team based". So it has to cost even more. Unless I make it really, really cryptic...
In any reasonable case, a textual hint should cost more than a bet.
2. It will cause players to focus more on a single picture rather than spreading their guesses to all of the available ones. This could be good or bad, I don't know. It would surely be against players that
just want to pay just for one guess per 2 days. Those players would either face the disadvantage of having fewer info than other players that want to bet multiple times on a pic, or pay for the hint as
if it was obligatory.
just want to pay just for one guess per 2 days. Those players would either face the disadvantage of having fewer info than other players that want to bet multiple times on a pic, or pay for the hint as
if it was obligatory.
Maybe not. I think it depends on hint price/reward ratio. Maybe people wouldn't think too much about it if hints are cheap enough.
3. In a picture that is close lets say to 50%, if nobody has solved it then you can be pretty sure that without the hint you have very few chances of solving it (since someone else has probably bought
the tip and still wasn't able to solve it). This makes the tip look somewhat obligatory. It reminds me of pay-to-win games. If it really ends up being obligatory, then I could as well ask for an
entrance fee to the site. Also see point 3: the hint would be pretty much obligatory for occasional players.
the tip and still wasn't able to solve it). This makes the tip look somewhat obligatory. It reminds me of pay-to-win games. If it really ends up being obligatory, then I could as well ask for an
entrance fee to the site. Also see point 3: the hint would be pretty much obligatory for occasional players.
That might be true, but then again can you really be sure that someone has bought the hint? Moreover, the same hint could make much sense to another person.
5. No matter what the configuration of the hinting system, after some time (maybe a long time) it will be "easy" to calculate whether hints pay back for their money or not. And after that point you will
either always buy one or never buy it. Until that time though I think hints will make the game more "random" for most players since you won't be able to know how helpful the tip will be or whether you
should buy it or not. More randomness will cause more frustration as even the current randomness of the game has caused frustration to some people. I can already imagine people complaining about
how helpful for others was the tip that they didn't buy and which caused them to loose 3 bets, or how useless was the tip that they bought.
either always buy one or never buy it. Until that time though I think hints will make the game more "random" for most players since you won't be able to know how helpful the tip will be or whether you
should buy it or not. More randomness will cause more frustration as even the current randomness of the game has caused frustration to some people. I can already imagine people complaining about
how helpful for others was the tip that they didn't buy and which caused them to loose 3 bets, or how useless was the tip that they bought.
People complain either way, the question is if you give them the incentives to keep playing. I think that if you post more pics, people will play more, but you can only do this if you turn a profit.
Here is an alternative that almost "fixes" point 2 and 3 and maybe 4: Pay to see the picture advanced by X hours or by X% of the remaining hours. You only get to see ONE scnapshot so the advantage
you buy is temporary, as time passes, other players reach the point that you saw. That way occasional players don't necessarily compete with players that have paid for a permanent hint that is valid
during the whole duration of the picture. This way the game won't be that much pay-to-win as players will need to constantly buy new hints in order to have a permanent advantage over other players
which won't be worth the money.
you buy is temporary, as time passes, other players reach the point that you saw. That way occasional players don't necessarily compete with players that have paid for a permanent hint that is valid
during the whole duration of the picture. This way the game won't be that much pay-to-win as players will need to constantly buy new hints in order to have a permanent advantage over other players
which won't be worth the money.
I like this one. In the end you'll only find out what works if you try different approaches. It's called split testing, try a few things and keep the one(s) that work best.
One concern about this system: Would it NEED to be 0-confirmations? Would it be too much to ask someone to wait 10 minutes (or in some cases much more), in order to see the picture advanced by
1 hour for example? Of course the picture will be advanced by 1 hour after the time the hint payment was CONFIRMED, not the time it was PAID.
1 hour for example? Of course the picture will be advanced by 1 hour after the time the hint payment was CONFIRMED, not the time it was PAID.
I guess it should be instantaneous. In the 10 minutes needed for a confirmation, people might change their mind. At the very least it will spoil the fun. Idk, maybe use an account system or unique urls like just-dice?
I don't want to touch accounts. Unique URLs were my idea also. Click on "Buy extra hint" to be taken to a unique page, pay to the address there and AJAX load the impoved picture when payment is received.
Another hint idea: View the picture with a different kind of distortion. That has a little problem though, if you overlay the two pictures with the different distortions, you will probably end up with a cleaner version of the picture. That means that people who know how to use picture editing software will have an extra advantage so I guess this is not such a good idea.