Topic: Appeal to Sig-Campaign Managers to Exclude "Meta" & "Politics & Society" (Read 3372 times)

Well yes I have argued that not counting certain sections is just going to move the problem (and hilariousandco has pointed out that it will result in campaigns getting free advertising). However my additional point here is that pushing the problem to other sections will result in some sections would become overwhelmed with signature related useless posts that should not have any of such posts (and will stand out because they traditionally have a small volume of posts) and other sections will be overwhelmed by so many insubstantial posts that moderators cannot sufficiently moderate.

I don't think stricter moderation is the solution because people will eventually figure out how to evade their bans and will simply come back under different accounts and continue to spam. If campaign managers are more strict about which accounts they accept into campaigns and which accounts they allow to continue to participate as this will result in people being prevented from participating in sig deals in the first place and in some situations will not get paid for their shit posts.

My arguement is that if managers push insubstantial posts into other subs then the ultimate consequence will be that paid signature deals will be disallowed all together.

It's the change in behavior. If he was doing 10-20 posts per day before, and after joining a signature campaign he starts doing 50-100 then something is wrong.
He's posting for the wrong reasons. Even if the post is somewhat constructive/decent (I said somewhat!) I would consider that spam as he is only doing it to get more money. Wouldn't you?

What does it mean for you the word 'spam'? I think if someone make/write 10-20 or 100 posts per day should not be considered spammer (if his posts are substantial and constructive). Because if someone else who is not wearing a sig ad make the same thing he will not (probable) be banned. In that case the problem is the sig ad (and not the post content itself) and the solution is only to limit the posts (counted) by the various signature campaign maintainers.

Indeed. Although a few smaller campaigns add up. I'm not sure what is worse, a member or hero member spamming.
This is what I and hilarious have said here. This is not how you solve this problem. It is actually just mitigating or moving it. Almost all the section should get counted.
There are 2 solutions to this: a) Signature campaign managers lower their tolerance a lot; b) Moderators lower their tolerance and start banning.
Option b) would work if the managers kicked out anyone who got banned for spamming.

One thing I would add to my first post in this thread is that if enough campaigns ban enough sections then it will likely lead to the ultimate banning of paid signatures. The reason being is that it is going to push shit posts/threads into sections like technical support and technical discussion which is intended go discuss advanced topics. Additionally sections like Bitcoin discussion will see even more of shit posts and threads asking ridiculously stupid questions beyond the point that it would be possible to keep clean which would defeat the point of having a Bitcoin discussion forum in the first place.

I am be a bit more polite, but I currently do exactly this with ndnhc as an experiment. I will probably ask marco as well.

I agree that spammers should be reported and banned, that is just good board protocol.

I also like that you are asking the sponsors of these programs to not count posts on these boards.  I've long maintained that they are the logical target to help combat the spam since they are actually paying for it.  I agree that a PM is a good way to go and liable to be more effective.  The signature campaigns seem to be getting more professional and serious in their administration and a message along the lines of "why are you wasting your money paying this bozo to spam all this" might be effective.

Good luck!

Firstly, the warning sirens posts are annoying indeed.

I dont like public shaming thread though, thats just bad style. I wonder though if it would make sense to write a PM to the campaign manager if you see a spam post. IIRC there have been plans in the past to add a "rate my posting style" link to the dadice signature. This would essentially lead to a PM for the manager, but it somehow never got implemented.
This would for one keep the work load for mods low and it would also make sense for people that are only borderline shitposting and are not full blown spammers. Confronting them directly or in public would put them in a defensive position. By addressing their manager[1] you put pressure on those running the campaign to deal with the problem. Since they are paying for the posts its only fair that they have to deal with the shit that comes with the posts.


IMHO dadice and bit-x are the big ones. The smaller ones might become a problem in the future though. Same as with the sections[2] you might just shove the problem elsewhere.


But its common for boards to have these sections. Probably to give some sort of valve.


I dont think we should make this a mod issue. This should be handled by managers and participants.


IMHO any meaningful discussion will take a long time till it finds its end. If there is a easy answer to all questions, there is no reason to discus about the topic. Theres threads are also easily avoided if you dont want to participate.


Yes, there are sometimes nice discussions informative posts about vulnerabilites. This is certainly not a question of section. I agree that the offtopic section has a fair amount of "post any bullshit daily" threads. They can be fun from time to time though and I think this is what is getting forgotten here. Posting here should be fun. Let them post what they drank this morning, but if they expect to be paid for it tell them to fuck off.



[1] yes I have this picture in mind while writing this -> http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/54371317.jpg
[2] Yay, I somehow made this post ontopic

Well, I actually get your point quite well.

Off-topic and Politics & Society have a lot in common. It is not as if off-topic has no constructive threads or posts. They certainly have few, and politic & society is very similar.
IMO, both should fall in the same category. Which is also why, they fall into the Other section.

I never said it was spam I said it was Off-topic.

But you're right. And I am wrong. I was trying to think of a solution but this isn't it and I shouldn't have made this topic and I apologize.  

Your point is nonsensical. Might as well ban all sub forums going by your logic yet you're fixated on Politics and Society for some reason because you think it's spam but won't accept that spam happens everywhere so that's the issue here not certain subsections, and that's what you're not getting.

He's generalizing because of individuals which is obviously illogical. It's just HIS opinion. This doesn't make it true.
His opinion will be perceived differently by different people here. If the admins have decided that Politics & Society deserve their own subforum then so be it. It's quite possible that someone in the very early days requested it. I'm pretty sure that the purpose of that forum was for threads related to Bitcoin, but over time it has changed.

If you don't want to get paid for something that doesn't mean that others don't want that too. Actually there is no reason not to get paid. I actually think that excluding the off-topic subforum is a mistake. There are/were quite a few threads with great discussions. Obviously it would have to be capped by a percentage and reviewed.
But your solution is wrong. Excluding these sections will drive those spammers away from them into other ones, and then we end up with essentially the same situation.

I don't see any end to this conversation. You're just not getting my point and for some reason you're fixated on that I want to be paid for off-topic posts when I have made this thread that it is exactly not what I want.  


I said it doesn't matter what difference of opinion we have on this topic as It is for the campaign manager's to decide. Please don't try to make the situation worse by adding inappropriate remarks without understanding the context of the post.

It does matter. This is a forum and opinions written here do matter. If you want to suggest something and don't want to see the opinions of other people write a PM.

They're off topic and unnecessary to what exactly? And every single post in there? Why should an entire sub forum be discounted in your opinion? What about all the unnecessary and off-topic posts in every other single sub of this forum? You just seem to take issue with the ones in Politics because you don't make any there but at the same time want to get paid for your posts in off-topic. Just join another campaign and your issue is resolved.

The purpose of this thread is pretty clear, I find that the posts in Politics & Society are unnecessary and off-topic, it is my opinion, it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, and I suggested to have them removed from paid boards because I believe that people will not post their as often as they do if they're not paid for it. If the campaign managers like this suggestion, they can implement it, if not, no problems.

I did explained it many times why I consider it as off-topic but the thing is when we made up our mind about something, we won't see the other aspect of it. I don't blame you, I do the same thing myself. So, let's just leave this thread for the campaign manager's consideration, they can choose for themselves if they like to add this rule or not.

Then what is the entire purpose of this thread? You seem to be complaining that you can't get paid for posts in Off topic but people can in Politics and that it isn't fair.


Considered as off-topic by who? And can you explain why it should be considered off-topic? It makes no sense at all. It's a sub forum for posting threads related to Politics and Society. Subforums are not refused payment because they're 'based on people's interests' but which subs are paid for or not is down to each individual campaign so I have no idea what your logic is here.

I don't have any beef with anyone.

I think the Politics & Society section should be considered as off-topic. As it is entirely based on a person's interests.

And it's my view that it's causing people to post more than what they normally would. So I posted a suggestion of it, let's leave it for the campaign managers if they like this suggestion or not.

Yes, it could do with one as could most of the other subs that are unmodded like Off-topic & Press and also Beginners because the mods aren't that active there. I think adding one or two more Globals would be a good idea as well. Posting news articles is relevant and is often what sparks discussion off. However, if all you did was just post links to news articles then that might be a different issue.


Another board for what and what would you call it? Creating another board would not make it free from spam or trolling. It's just another place it can and will happen not to mention making more work for mods. You just need to join a campaign that will pay you for off topic posts as that seems to be your main beef here.

Moved.

I consider them as off-topic and I believe they allow people to post a lot of insubstantial posts which are Unnecessary. It's ok if you don't agree with that but I'll leave it up to the campaign managers to decide which section they include and which not.

I will however ask Mods & Admins, to provide another board where a person can talk about his other interests and where it doesn't gets mixed with spam and troll posts.