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Topic: Archived Content - page 3. (Read 12184 times)

hero member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 509
March 11, 2016, 10:50:52 AM
Dink, I am really sorry to hear that you find the project "Cagey".


The problem, as I have mentioned to you, is that there are unanswered questions. When people ask them, you either answer in a vague, blunt manner, or just ignore them completely. Then you go off on a technical tangent regarding the coin. Yet we are all still sitting here, wondering who the dev team is, who has access to the funds,  and wondering why you ignored our questions. So that is why people think there may be some issues.

I'll assume Lionel was paid off. Although I still wonder what his original plan was, if he had devs onboard who simply transferred to you, etc.

I get this is supposed to be a loose collection of crypto enthusiasts working on the coin, but there is loose, and then there is 'so loose that we have no idea who anybody is, or who is in charge'. Even the latter could work (but is hardly ideal), if you weren't taking money for the project.

There needs to be one lead developer regardless, and at least one good coder. Everyone else can be that 'loose collection of devs'. Lannister supposedly is in charge, but he's not the one replying to people here. In fact, does he even read this thread at all? What is his background? Does he have coding skills? Who has access to the donated funds? Will you list how these funds are used, as you use them? Basic stuff.


legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
March 11, 2016, 10:48:39 AM
Oke im in cant resist, tonight i buy some into the ICO and hope to support this project.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
March 11, 2016, 10:08:44 AM
Can anyone tell me the block time and block reward ?

For aswell pow as pos please ?

member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
March 11, 2016, 08:53:37 AM
With all the unanswered questions it is sad that we have been reduced to ...  Cagey
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
March 11, 2016, 03:39:22 AM
All those who are writing papers here on a regular basis knows how many iterations a paper sometimes requires until it reaches a form that everyone is happy with. Thanks.

I have to go now, but briefly, could you please include a version number on each iteration.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
March 11, 2016, 03:22:55 AM
Lionel is not involved in any form.

I thought as much, yet, by giving us the barest minimum answer to the question, after ignoring it for so long, you still look cagey.  How did this happen?  Did you, for example, pay him to hand over everything and go away?  Did you get the crowdfunds off him before he left, or did he run off with the money, which you are making good out of your own funds?

This is speculation of course, and wild speculation at that, but by being less-than-forthcoming, you invite such.

I understand that it is frustrating for you to have deal with such issues, when all you want to do is get on and develop.  But I really do wish you would make a full disclosure on this.

It's also not clear who are the "3 developers and theoretical computer scientists and one designer around in this thread" are.  If they've participated in the thread, you should be able to give their user names.  Presumably two of the developers are yourself and Lannister.  Who is the third?  Does Lannister code?  the "theoretiical computer scientist" is presumably me, though I dispute the characterisation.  Who is the designer?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
I2VPN Lead developer.Antidote to 3-letter agencies
March 11, 2016, 03:10:06 AM
Hmm, good job. It seems awesome.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1168
March 11, 2016, 02:57:55 AM
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legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1168
March 11, 2016, 02:42:52 AM
This message was too old and has been purged
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
March 11, 2016, 02:30:16 AM
Also the attacker can DDoS the system by submitting a verification algorithm that is orders-of-magnitude slower than the attacker's proving algorithm.

It's worse than that.  An attacker might be able to win PoW blocks by manipulating the buffer in ways that maintain its integrity (by which I mean, it would pass a "re-run" test), and recomputing (and re-recomputing) its SHA-256 hash.  Moreover, he will be able to do this, even with an innocent and legitimate program.  So this will be no mere DOS attack, the attacker will be able to win an innocent buyer's money without doing legitimate work for that client.  I cannot (yet) see how to avoid this, which is frustrating, because the buffer thing was my idea, and I really thought it would work.

Quote
This entire concept is insoluble and flawed and any fool who invests in this shit deserves to lose their money.

While I wouldn't have put it quite like that, this is more or less the position I took in response to the original whitepaper.

I'm no longer so negative about the project.  I think it is possible that we will find solutions to these problems.  It is possible that we could end up with something that does the job, or which fails in ways that are tolerable, rather than fatal, even if these solutions are not what the whitepaper currently envisages.  And it might take a lot longer than the current plan allows for.

So I would not now say to anyone "invest" or "don't invest".  What I would say, is that if you do invest, do so on the basis of what I said in that last paragraph, and to treat it as a punt.

But then, what altcoin isn't?

To be more specific, I think the scheme outlined in section 2.4 of the whitepaper is still vulnerable to a form of the FAA.  It doesn't affect blockchain security, but it could allow a malicious miner to claim all the rewards (but not the bounties) without doing the (honest) buyers work.  I don't think this dooms the project.  I do think that we will have to address the issue of veifiability in a fundamentally different way.

I have a busy day ahead of me, but I will try to find time this weekend to do a thorough critique of the current iteration of the whitepaper.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1168
March 11, 2016, 02:18:19 AM
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newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
March 10, 2016, 11:43:35 PM
#99
Well there are at least 3 developers and theoretical computer scientists and one designer around in this thread,

I hope nothing in that sentence was intended to refer to me.  I'm not any of these things.  As I've repeatedly said, I'm just a guy on the internet.

I don't understand why the question about Lionel's continued involvement (or not) in the project gets continually ignored. It's a reasonable question; it's one I've asked myself; and its been ignored to the point that you are starting to look cagey.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 511
March 10, 2016, 06:14:22 PM
#98
I am responsible for the Elastic project and I do not want to formate any agreements, contractual obligations, or future promises that can be enforced in court. So in order to prevent any kind of legal detriments, either now or in the future, I explicitly do not agree in any form to perform (or refrain from performing) certain actions in relation with the Elastic project now or in the future.

This is the basic reason why I want to stick with voluntary donations and a voluntary development process. But I can assure you that we all are passionate about crypto currencies and we are eager to see this pioneering coin being developed, used and maintained even after its launch.

This raises some red flags for me tho, I mean there are other Ico's At the moment who are open about everything.
You know the people behind it and what the plans are, Why wouldn't you do that?
This sounds like I don't want anything to do with this if it goes sideways.
For me It is really important in Ico's who I am going to give my money to and what are they going to do with it, this is way to unclear for me guys sorry.
hero member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 509
March 10, 2016, 06:11:53 PM
#97
Poornamelessme: the website clearly states that the donated funds are meant to be used for development (and not for display only).
I mean, how can you cover the development costs without touching the funds that are meant for development?
In this case ... what are the funds for in the first place?

I am simply going by the original ICO rules (if you remember the old thread for this coin). Supposedly donations weren't supposed to be touched for a while (forget exactly how long). I believe you were the one who even suggested it, then Lionel confirmed.

But again, forget about that. You want all of the money right now, that's fine... not sure if anyone knows who even has access to the funds in the first place.

Please answer the other questions though.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1168
March 10, 2016, 06:05:20 PM
#96
This message was too old and has been purged
hero member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 509
March 10, 2016, 05:56:12 PM
#95
There are some very simple things that could be answered here to help with some concerns:

What happened exactly with Lionel? Who was Lionel and is he completely detached from the coin at this point? What was his actual plan?

Who is Lannister? His real name, his background, and who exactly has access to the donated funds?

Is there a ledger somewhere listing how these funds are used?

EK has made statements like without the donated funds the promotional video couldn't be made, or new website couldn't be created ... yet the donated funds weren't supposed to be touched yet (at least that was stated on the old thread). Can't have it both ways, one time saying all funds are safe and not to be touched, and later saying the funds are needed now to create videos/website.

Putting that argument aside, let us know who is on the dev team, what coders are attached and if Lannister is actually in charge of this thing now, it'd probably be nice if he posted once in a rare while. So far, there have been two 'silent lead devs', while EK is the one doing the talking all the time.

The technical aspects of the coin are obviously important, but most of that stuff will go over the head of the average investor. Basic info on the devs involved, how funds are handled, and so on, is basic ICO 101 ... no excuse not to provide this information.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
March 10, 2016, 02:08:32 PM
#94
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
March 10, 2016, 01:44:21 PM
#93
I have no access to the project's official GitHub repository so I have the current version in my forked git:
https://github.com/OrdinaryDude/whitepaper/raw/master/whitepaper.pdf

Comments are appreciated

You did not solve the The Faster Algorithm Attack (FAA). Your proposed solution is incoherent and it doesn't matter what you propose, it will always be flawed because the problem is insoluble:

Quote
The only incentive to perform this attack is to pull of the
51 % attack. We eliminate this incentive by entirely discon-
necting the calculation of arbitrary tasks from the security
of the blockchain. In this context we suggest a pure proof-
of-stake scheme [7] for the block generation. The proof-of-
work scheme is used only for the measurement of who has
contributed how much work the payments of the propor-
tional rewards. Performing the FAA as it is described above
would correspond to an attacker which can solve his own
work quicker than everyone else and so get paid his own
money (subtracted by a small fee to prevent DDOS in this
context). This is not dangerous from the network’s point
of view. In order to maintain a certain degree of incentive
to generate proof-of-stake blocks instead of just focusing on
the calculation of proof-of-works we have decided to credit
the proof-of-stake block with all transaction fees that are
included in that particular block.

Also the attacker can DDoS the system by submitting a verification algorithm that is orders-of-magnitude slower than the attacker's proving algorithm.

This entire concept is insoluble and flawed and any fool who invests in this shit deserves to lose their money.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
March 10, 2016, 01:14:09 PM
#92
Will thw whitepaper include a section on limitations ...verifiable computations and homomorphic encryption which are not yet  possible for our purposes?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
March 10, 2016, 12:07:55 PM
#91
I agree we dont need escrow. Escrow is counterproducive for this kind of project. But there are frequently raised concerns, which should be addressed however, to stop the ongoing debate and move on. Biggest concern is probably the control of funds, (possible mismanagement, possible abuse, etc.). This could easily be addressed by a wider distribution of Multisig key storage. Total of six keys, four of which are required to send bitcoin, for instance, public applications, open discussion, transparent nomination, anyone already participated in either this one or one of the previous two threads is eligible to candidate. What do you guys think?
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