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Topic: Are Bitcoins Martial Law Proof? - page 2. (Read 8211 times)

full member
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August 02, 2012, 02:26:52 AM
#64
does martial-law imply shuting down the internet and the grid?

wtf would people do?

no one could live in the big cites, theirs no power! this is pure madness. no one is every going to shutdown the grid for any reason, their isn't any profit in it.


Civilian massacres have been a prominent feature of martial law throughout history, and you don't think the government will shut your lights off if they have to?

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You defeat it by having assets instead of debt.  In lieu of assets, you have population which can be harnessed to produce goods.  China wins on both fronts.  America has bred many enemies the past few decades.

If China decides to go to war with America, guess fucking what? There isn't any American debt to China anymore. That is a great deal for America and a death sentence for the Chinese economy.  There is nothing more valuable than the trade between these two nations you could gain from a war. 

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I already agreed that war between the two is unlikely.  Multiple times in fact.  Learn to read instead of spewing insults.

No, you moron, you drooled out some bullshit about boots in response to nothing I said and have been making breathtakingly ignorant military arguments ever since even as I try to tell you military engagement between these two countries is irrelevant as it isn't ever going to happen, that doesn't mean I can't tell you that you are also retarded for thinking China has any kind of aircraft carrier program worth putting on a chart.

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Sure... if you ignore hong kong.  From http://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/dnltransfer.asp?fID=1 (the first data link on the UN page linked to by the article) if you add yuan and hkd denominated manufacturing, adjusting for each currency's current rate, in 2010 China's manufacturing sector produced $2,046,522,254,485 or $2.046 trillion.  This is compared to the $1,855,967,100,172 or $1.855 trillion listed for the good old USA.

It isn't added for a reason, but try and remember that your down syndrome addled brain is discussing this because you suggested the American manufacturing industry is in cobwebs.  Even with these numbers, producing slightly less with less than half as many people is not cobwebs. 

Gotcha... dumb troll is dumb.

All you're doing in spewing personal insults and dodging my points.  I'm done here, and we're off topic anyway.

If you are to believed, there are no points to dodge!  I posted that the US and China are stable countries that will remain so for centuries.  China because of historical and cultural legacy, and America because of a dominant military regime.  There was nothing about war between them until you drooled out something about boots.

All this pointless mind numbing derail is because you were too dumb to read that my original point was not about war between the two countries and you just now seem to have caught up. 
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 02:24:02 AM
#63
does martial-law imply shuting down the internet and the grid?

wtf would people do?

no one could live in the big cites, theirs no power! this is pure madness. no one is every going to shutdown the grid for any reason, their isn't any profit in it.


Civilian massacres have been a prominent feature of martial law throughout history, and you don't think the government will shut your lights off if they have to?

Quote
You defeat it by having assets instead of debt.  In lieu of assets, you have population which can be harnessed to produce goods.  China wins on both fronts.  America has bred many enemies the past few decades.

If China decides to go to war with America, guess fucking what? There isn't any American debt to China anymore. That is a great deal for America and a death sentence for the Chinese economy.  There is nothing more valuable than the trade between these two nations you could gain from a war. 

Quote
I already agreed that war between the two is unlikely.  Multiple times in fact.  Learn to read instead of spewing insults.

No, you moron, you drooled out some bullshit about boots in response to nothing I said and have been making breathtakingly ignorant military arguments ever since even as I try to tell you military engagement between these two countries is irrelevant as it isn't ever going to happen, that doesn't mean I can't tell you that you are also retarded for thinking China has any kind of aircraft carrier program worth putting on a chart.

Quote
Sure... if you ignore hong kong.  From http://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/dnltransfer.asp?fID=1 (the first data link on the UN page linked to by the article) if you add yuan and hkd denominated manufacturing, adjusting for each currency's current rate, in 2010 China's manufacturing sector produced $2,046,522,254,485 or $2.046 trillion.  This is compared to the $1,855,967,100,172 or $1.855 trillion listed for the good old USA.

It isn't added for a reason, but try and remember that your down syndrome addled brain is discussing this because you suggested the American manufacturing industry is in cobwebs.  Even with these numbers, producing slightly less with less than half as many people is not cobwebs. 

Gotcha... dumb troll is dumb.

All you're doing in spewing personal insults and dodging my points.  I'm done here, and we're off topic anyway.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
August 02, 2012, 02:19:23 AM
#62
does martial-law imply shuting down the internet and the grid?

wtf would people do?

no one could live in the big cites, theirs no power! this is pure madness. no one is every going to shutdown the grid for any reason, their isn't any profit in it.


Ask Iraqis, Serbs, Libyans, or anyone else who found themselves in a country bombed or invaded by NATO in recent years. Hint: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-114.htm
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!
August 02, 2012, 02:08:59 AM
#61
does martial-law imply shuting down the internet and the grid?

wtf would people do?

no one could live in the big cites, theirs no power! this is pure madness. no one is every going to shutdown the grid for any reason, their isn't any profit in it.


Civilian massacres have been a prominent feature of martial law throughout history, and you don't think the government will shut your lights off if they have to?

Quote
You defeat it by having assets instead of debt.  In lieu of assets, you have population which can be harnessed to produce goods.  China wins on both fronts.  America has bred many enemies the past few decades.

If China decides to go to war with America, guess fucking what? There isn't any American debt to China anymore. That is a great deal for America and a death sentence for the Chinese economy.  There is nothing more valuable than the trade between these two nations you could gain from a war. 

Quote
I already agreed that war between the two is unlikely.  Multiple times in fact.  Learn to read instead of spewing insults.

No, you moron, you drooled out some bullshit about boots in response to nothing I said and have been making breathtakingly ignorant military arguments ever since even as I try to tell you military engagement between these two countries is irrelevant as it isn't ever going to happen, that doesn't mean I can't tell you that you are also retarded for thinking China has any kind of aircraft carrier program worth putting on a chart.

Quote
Sure... if you ignore hong kong.  From http://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/dnltransfer.asp?fID=1 (the first data link on the UN page linked to by the article) if you add yuan and hkd denominated manufacturing, adjusting for each currency's current rate, in 2010 China's manufacturing sector produced $2,046,522,254,485 or $2.046 trillion.  This is compared to the $1,855,967,100,172 or $1.855 trillion listed for the good old USA.

It isn't added for a reason, but try and remember that your down syndrome addled brain is discussing this because you suggested the American manufacturing industry is in cobwebs.  Even with these numbers, producing slightly less with less than half as many people is not cobwebs. 
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 02:08:26 AM
#60
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China has a lot of subs we know about and even more we don't know about.  Stealth sub technology is very hard to detect.

And we have more and better subs and more and better anti-sub technology.  Explain how you defeat this, around the entire globe where the US and it's allies are dominant literally everywhere.  Life is not a movie. 


You defeat it by having assets instead of debt.  In lieu of assets, you have population which can be harnessed to produce goods.  China wins on both fronts.  America has bred many enemies the past few decades.

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Which is why we won't use nukes either.  Your point is still neutralized.

No, the point that neither side will risk nuclear war is a point against either side ever going to war which is the point I am trying to drill into your vacant head.  Doing so would be inviting the nuclear war neither side will invite. 


I already agreed that war between the two is unlikely.  Multiple times in fact.  Learn to read instead of spewing insults.

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Right, because a newspaper with unsourced material is totally reliable Roll Eyes. 

*head-desk*

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Just take a quick look at the numbers. According to United Nations data, the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world. In 2009, American manufacturing output (in real terms) was nearly $2.2 trillion. That’s about 45% larger than China’s, at just under $1.5 trillion.

Read more: http://business.time.com/2011/03/10/can-china-compete-with-american-manufacturing/#ixzz22My09d2Q


Sure... if you ignore hong kong.  From http://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/dnltransfer.asp?fID=1 (the first data link on the UN page linked to by the article) if you add yuan and hkd denominated manufacturing, adjusting for each currency's current rate, in 2010 China's manufacturing sector produced $2,046,522,254,485 or $2.046 trillion.  This is compared to the $1,855,967,100,172 or $1.855 trillion listed for the good old USA.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
August 02, 2012, 02:05:37 AM
#59
does martial-law imply shuting down the internet and the grid?

wtf would people do?

no one could live in the big cites, theirs no power! this is pure madness. no one is every going to shutdown the grid for any reason, their isn't any profit in it.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
August 02, 2012, 01:59:02 AM
#58
How are my ideas monstrous?  Huh

The stripping away of individual liberties in favor of greater government control of our lives... 

Is there anyone here besides you who feels this is a positive socio-economic evolution?

Here. Not because I favor the government over personal freedoms, but because I favor the government over private, cancerous corporations that definitely don't give a rat's ass about my freedoms or anything other than their profits. Most of criticism I can aim towards governments nowadays is simply a consequence of corporate influence over governments.

Back to the topic: yes, I think Bitcoin is reasonably martial-law proof. Perhaps wouldn't be able to spend them easily, but they are extremely hard to destroy or take away.
full member
Activity: 182
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August 02, 2012, 01:55:45 AM
#57
Quote
China has a lot of subs we know about and even more we don't know about.  Stealth sub technology is very hard to detect.

And the US has more and better subs and more and better anti-sub technology.  Explain how you defeat this, around the entire globe where the US and it's allies are dominant literally everywhere.  Life is not a movie.  

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Which is why we won't use nukes either.  Your point is still neutralized.

No, the point that neither side will risk nuclear war is a point against either side ever going to war which is the point I am trying to drill into your vacant head.  Doing so would be inviting the nuclear war neither side will invite.  

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Right, because a newspaper with unsourced material is totally reliable Roll Eyes.  

*head-desk*

Quote
Just take a quick look at the numbers. According to United Nations data, the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world. In 2009, American manufacturing output (in real terms) was nearly $2.2 trillion. That’s about 45% larger than China’s, at just under $1.5 trillion.

Read more: http://business.time.com/2011/03/10/can-china-compete-with-american-manufacturing/#ixzz22My09d2Q

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I really can't think of a situation where the US and China would go head to head, but if it happens, the results won't be nearly as cut and dry as you claim.

You are the biggest retard on these forums by a wide margin, and that is quite an accomplishment.  You are the dumbass trying to imagine a war between the US and China, this is my first reply to your idiocy:

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They can't get those boots to the United States, and drones > boots, but I was not suggesting war between these two nations.  They are economic partners who are going to continue to work together to protect their mutual interests.

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 01:48:11 AM
#56
Sinking ~28 (counting is hard when they don't fit one one screen and I'm intoxicated) carriers wouldn't be that hard.

Explain how.

Added difficulty:  You will be nuked into the stone age if you try this.
Extra Added Difficulty:  Your economy is dependent on the country you are fighting militarily for no reason.

Surprise attack, torpedoes.  Ever heard of Pearl Harbor?

Yes, I've also heard of the Battle of Thermopylae, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the proposed scenario of defeating nuclear carrier battle groups scattered around the entire globe and surrounded by the best anti-air technology in the world on constant alert.  


China has a lot of subs we know about and even more we don't know about.  Stealth sub technology is very hard to detect.

Quote

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Added Difficulty Counter: You will be counter nuked.

That isn't a difficulty for me as I'm not jacking off to some imaginary Tom Clancy war that will never happen, mainly because of the MAD.  


Which is why we won't use nukes either.  Your point is still neutralized.

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Extra Added Difficulty Counter: Good point, but if they're fighting, there's a reason.  China will be much better off with an economic split than America will be.  They have production capacity, and ours is covered in cobwebs.

Actually America manufactures more than they do by more than 40%.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20110130-u.s.-still-no.-1-manufacturing-country-despite-cutbacks-at-factories.ece

Right, because a newspaper with unsourced material is totally reliable Roll Eyes.  Show me this supposed UN study and you may have some credibility, but we really only know what China tells us about China.  In the mean time, China will continue to grow it's population much faster than we possibly could and training these people to fight fiercely.  A few well placed EMP devices and all our drones and fancy hardware is just a bunch of scrap metal.  Even if we retaliate in kind China has the boots and the guns.

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You really know nothing about the world, the economy, or the military, do you?

Well aren't you a cocky asshole?

I really can't think of a situation where the US and China would go head to head, but if it happens, the results won't be nearly as cut and dry as you claim.
full member
Activity: 182
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August 02, 2012, 01:32:15 AM
#55
Sinking ~28 (counting is hard when they don't fit one one screen and I'm intoxicated) carriers wouldn't be that hard.

Explain how.

Added difficulty:  You will be nuked into the stone age if you try this.
Extra Added Difficulty:  Your economy is dependent on the country you are fighting militarily for no reason.

Surprise attack, torpedoes.  Ever heard of Pearl Harbor?

Yes, I've also heard of the Battle of Thermopylae, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the proposed scenario of defeating nuclear carrier battle groups scattered around the entire globe, moving constantly at sea, surrounded by the best anti-air technology in the world, and protected by the best satellite and radar intelligence in the world, while on constant alert.  

Quote
Added Difficulty Counter: You will be counter nuked.

That isn't a difficulty for me as I'm not jacking off to some imaginary Tom Clancy war that will never happen, mainly because of the MAD.  

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Extra Added Difficulty Counter: Good point, but if they're fighting, there's a reason.  China will be much better off with an economic split than America will be.  They have production capacity, and ours is covered in cobwebs.

Actually America manufactures more than they do by more than 40%.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20110130-u.s.-still-no.-1-manufacturing-country-despite-cutbacks-at-factories.ece

You really know nothing about the world, the economy, or the military, do you?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 12:41:41 AM
#54
Sinking ~28 (counting is hard when they don't fit one one screen and I'm intoxicated) carriers wouldn't be that hard.

Explain how.

Added difficulty:  You will be nuked into the stone age if you try this.
Extra Added Difficulty:  Your economy is dependent on the country you are fighting militarily for no reason.

Surprise attack, torpedoes.  Ever heard of Pearl Harbor?

Added Difficulty Counter: You will be counter nuked.
Extra Added Difficulty Counter: Good point, but if they're fighting, there's a reason.  China will be much better off with an economic split than America will be.  They have production capacity, and ours is covered in cobwebs.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
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August 02, 2012, 12:37:05 AM
#53
Sinking ~28 (counting is hard when they don't fit one one screen and I'm intoxicated) carriers wouldn't be that hard.

Explain how.

Added difficulty:  You will be nuked into the stone age if you try this.
Extra Added Difficulty:  Your economy is dependent on the country you are fighting militarily for no reason.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 12:36:04 AM
#52
Sinking ~28 (counting is hard when they don't fit one one screen and I'm intoxicated) carriers wouldn't be that hard.

China has almost no debt and ridiculous amounts of assets.  America has spent the next decade's worth of taxes already.

America would be fucked in any serious conflict (I'm an American and I'm sad).

Our only hope is if we can get other people to fight and sell weapons to both sides like the beginning of WWII.
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Activity: 182
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August 02, 2012, 12:25:37 AM
#51
I don't believe your graphic since China isn't even on it.

It is a bit out of date.

They do have one cold war diesel model they bought half built off the Russians via a tourist company undergoing sea trials.  It's way inferior to decades old battle proven American nuclear carrier designs.:  
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The 67,500 ton ex-Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag (Admiral Kuznetsov class), which was only 70% completed and floating in Ukraine, was purchased through a private Macau tourist venture in 1998. Following her troublesome tow to Dalian shipyard, the carrier has undergone a long refit. Varyag had been stripped of any military equipment as well as her propulsion systems prior to being put up for sale. News reports state that she is being fitted out to enter operational status.[2][12]

On 10 August 2011, it was announced that the refurbishment of Varyag was complete, and that it was undergoing sea trials.[13][14]

On December 14, 2011, DigitalGlobe, and American Satellite imaging company announced that while scouring through pictures taken December 8th, they had discovered the retrofitted Varyag performing maneuvers, DigitalGlobe elaborated that their images capture the ship in the Yellow Sea where it performed for 5 days. [15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme

Other than that, they are still trying to put shit together.  Now look at the graphic for what the US and allies have going, and have had going for decades.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
#50
I don't believe your graphic since China isn't even on it.
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August 02, 2012, 12:16:19 AM
#49
I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

China's military beats America's by about 700,0000 boots.  The US has slightly better hardware but it's still tough to say who is more powerful.

They can't get those boots to the United States, and drones > boots, but I was not suggesting war between these two nations.  They are economic partners who are going to continue to work together to protect their mutual interests.

I'm just arguing against your statement that "America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen".  In some situations, China would be superior, in some America would be.  I doubt there will be a head to head conflict though.

Outside of the context of trying to invade China, there is no context in which the American military is not vastly more powerful.  You need to understand how huge the disparity in investment in military efforts is:



Aircraft carriers are just an example, but one of the best since they are direct representations of ability to project power which is at the heart of any debate of military power that isn't about an invasion of either the US or China.   The disproportion applies to all military investment and American allies are the next biggest spenders.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 02, 2012, 12:07:59 AM
#48
I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

China's military beats America's by about 700,0000 boots.  The US has slightly better hardware but it's still tough to say who is more powerful.

They can't get those boots to the United States, and drones > boots, but I was not suggesting war between these two nations.  They are economic partners who are going to continue to work together to protect their mutual interests.

I'm just arguing against your statement that "America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen".  In some situations, China would be superior, in some America would be.  I doubt there will be a head to head conflict though.
full member
Activity: 182
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August 01, 2012, 11:51:33 PM
#47
I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

China's military beats America's by about 700,0000 boots.  The US has slightly better hardware but it's still tough to say who is more powerful.

They can't get those boots to the United States, and drones > boots, but I was not suggesting war between these two nations.  They are economic partners who are going to continue to work together to protect their mutual interests.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 01, 2012, 11:48:29 PM
#46
I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

China's military beats America's by about 700,0000 boots.  The US has slightly better hardware but it's still tough to say who is more powerful.
sr. member
Activity: 800
Merit: 250
August 01, 2012, 09:39:32 PM
#45
"No true anarchist is going to be running for public office. And no true anarchist is going to be voting either."

I image it would be very difficult to run for any public office on an anarchist platform. 

"Elect me, and never elect anybody again!"
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