Topic: Are the Western people very apolitical? - page 2. (Read 344 times)

Most Russians polled support the war. Indeed, if you are telling the truth about who you are and views, then you are risking your life by posting here.

And that's the point: simply having a vote doesn't mean anything. Putin will win with 99% of the vote, just like Xi would in China, and like Kim Jong Un would in PRK.

Simply having a vote, by itself, doesn't mean anything. The US was founded with freedom of speech and press--to take just one example--in order to allow democracy to mean something. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be here.

I didn’t expect that my thread will attract so much criticism. Maybe I will be able to formulate my opinion with more arguments in future. By the way, a famous liberal writer Steven Pinker (who writes that the humanity moves towards a better world) has a book “Enlightenment Now”; and if indeed the Enlightenment continues, this must mean that a new Great Revolt will soon happen? Isn’t that the main goal of the crypto enthusiasts?

From my experience, one of the quickest ways to get the "first worlders" flee a discussion platform is to fill it with third worlders and let them know about it. It will make them feel inferior and ashamed that they have been interacting, making connections and dwelling with third class people or subhumans. One of the remedy for this is to rank them above the third worlders on the platform, whether they qualify or not. Or reward them more... Don't just treat everyone equally.
In regards to being apolitical, they are very much into politics and seem to like it... like how much many Americans like wrestling. There are people who don't really like politics though, and It's mostly about the nature of politics that's filled with negativity, pessimism, bitterness etc which lots of nerds and gentlemen I also encounter on couple of science forums/groups I was part of didn't really like. They just want to forget about politics and be optimistic, loving, caring, happy, etc.
I noticed there were members who didn't really like theories and speculations from other members and I used to be suspicious and mad at them for discouraging what is typically acceptable in the science world. I thought they were never really science inclined but were just there to cause confusion, hurt us, make us hopeless or derail our progress.

The Russians are brainwashed by the proparanda, but I am sure that even they would have rejected such a proposal in a referendum if it had been held.

So if they passed a referendum in Russia saying they should take over Ukraine and then invade Poland after that, um... then what?

America, it should be noted, was not founded as an unlimited democracy and I suspect you don't fully understand Switzerland either (although I'm no expert on their constitution).

There is no Putin's propaganda that the Western countries suffer from a lack of democracy (or maybe just a bit, in contraditions with other statements). The Putin's propaganda is aimed at discrediting democracy, and especially discretiting Maidan (pro-democratic revolt in Ukraine).
The propaganda in Russia tries to combine democracy and homosexuality in the minds of Russians; and I try to argue on Russian forums, that these problems couldn't occur if everything in the West was decided via a referendum. I have already written about this here.

So you say that freedom is slavery and having money means you don't have money, even though this is self-contradictory.

And also you say you are anti-Putin and not pro-Putin even though your are repeating Putin's anti-Western propaganda.

I agree DeathAngel and would expand on what you say by adding Western Societies are
NOT apolitical, they are actually all democratic societies.

The OP is from Russia, one of the few dictatorships in the continent of Europe.

Its also a bit of a stretch and generalisation for the OP to say westerners are only
interested in cryptocurrencies when there is monetary gain, its actually a global trait
as is being interested in cryptocurrencies for the science factor, its not just a western thing.

Well, for me the best society is Switzerland, where a referendum is performed each 3 months. I think that if a similar model had been adopted in the United States, the current problems of the United States most likely would not exist.

Look, you should try all this somewhere else. If there is a forum that is well past the manipulation, fomo, fud and propaganda is this one. You can say "I am anti-putin" but then provide all the propaganda that pretty much proves the contrary.

This is the usual technique of casting shadows of doubt with half-truth and "reasonable doubts" adding up the argument of "it is not perfect, so it is not good". For example: "corporations have a lot of influence in the US elections, so US and Ruzzia are both the same". "US tortured in Guantanamo, so US an Ruzzia are the same". Another thing you will find in the "the West" is people who are well aware of this type of discourse.

If you think Western democracies are not "true" democracies, you would need to say where you can actually find one that is. This is not black an white, there is grayscale from North Korea to Norway and at least the EU and for now US, Canada and a few others are "white enough".

I didn't say that Russia has democracy. My views are very anti-Putins.
I would be glad if the replies here about the Western world are right, and it is difficult for me to prove my point of view, since this conclusion is rather intuitive than based on concerete facts. I suggest you to watch 3 videos which support this point of view, can you please comment them:

"The illusion of democracy":

https://youtu.be/mhOOziH7QAo

"How Money Became Worthless":

https://youtu.be/Co_tVd9gA2I

"Money as debt":

https://youtu.be/4AC6RSau7r8

Note that OP is from Russia and dares to criticize how little democracy we have in our countries. I'd like to remind OP that "democratically" elected president Putin "democratically" changed the constitution to become the president for the third time.
I bet that his democratic government asked the people if they want to invade a neighboring country and the majority said yes, so they did. (sarcasm).
We have more democracy in Europe than you do in Russia, prove me wrong OP. At least I'm not being chased around town by police for wearing a blue jacket over a yellow shirt.

Not really because I have also come into contact with many people in the West who have a real curiosity for fields that do not always receive much attention, I was very surprised to discover a top university in America with a major in theology, a field that I think is the end of all fields. But we also strongly agree that from the current life perspective, people believe more in empirical things than in things that are still unclear, or simply in a way that completely denies everything that they cannot explain.

As in the field of medicine, things like meridians and acupuncture points are known to have existed for thousands of years in many Eastern cultures, but only in recent years have Western research accepted that they are the truth, and they cannot know exactly how humans can find those things. Yep, in life it is true that there are still many things that we cannot explain. Along with developing and finding new/old things, we should show a more objective spirit towards everything, and not also that it always brings scientific achievements to explain everything. I once read about the book "Journey to the East" perhaps at some point the shift in research will move towards this land where things go beyond scientific explanation and only await acceptance.

However, I have also talked to people do try to willingly ignore politics during two or three years and only care to get information about candidates for the white house during cycles like this one, when all the population of the United States and beyond get interested on who is supposed to lead the nation. I have never lived in the United States, but I have talked to friends who live there and the political situation and division there can be so bad that they would rather to actually become ignorant on those topics and escape from the political confrontations within the American society, but nowadays it is almost imposible to do so, due to all being politicized: sports, gender, churches, social media, even food. There is no wonder why some people who are already mentally unstable snap and commit violence against others or themselves.

I have always thought that the ideal country or democracy is one where one as citizen does not need to take much about politics, but rather focus on living one's life as happy as possible, if people are happy then why bother to spoil one happiness by overthinking on those bitter topics?

It is the western government that decides this apolitical position with such a terrible conservative government that controls the meida as much as it does. As a result of this governing system, young citizens are timid and undaring and prone to snowflaking. A controlled system and soft handling of growing children mean they are only giving out their government to immigrants

I would extend this by saying that you will never find any definition of human existence where "money does not matter". Money, representing the citizens freely trading with one another, will always be present in any free society. And yes, money will influence politics in a democracy in lots of ways.

I think the power of "big money" is less than it's ever been before. Politicians, in the US at least, are now heavily influenced by donors sending them tiny bits of money--ten dollars or fifty dollars and the like. One can argue that this has lead to some really, really stupid politics where politicians perform publicity stunts instead of governing for the long term, but this situation is much more "democratic" than it was even 20 years ago.

I totally get what you're saying about the U.S. Everyone's into politics, and it makes sense with all those channels and media making a big deal out of it, as it should be. There are just people who choose to take a break for their sanity. I totally get and respect that call. Sometimes, you just need a break from all the political noise for your own peace of mind but that doesnt mean that you should be ignorant.

I am not sure what is your idea of a "real democracy" Please notice that you will never find in any definition of democracy that "money does not matter".

There is never ever a perfect form of anything except in our ideas (Plato said). However, most of these regimes do have voting, free press, individual rights, independent judiciary and a system of balances. So yes, they are actually democracies. You can get as much information as you want in "the West" - note that Ruzzia is partially "the West" of the Urals. You will find little difference in the art, writings and architecture of Moscow related to central Europe capitals.

You can also choose your sources of information or create your own. There are some limitation on supporting Nazi groups, organisations marked as terrorists and some other extremisms.

All democracies are strongly influenced by money. Private property is consistent with the individual rights that are part of any participative regime and those with money do whatever they can to avoid giving it to others and getting more for themselves. However, the education is mandatory till at leas 16, usually 18 years. People can read history, philosophy or anything they want if they feel like it. Most do understand political tendencies and are aware of massive manipulation techniques.

However, people are not "apolitical" even if they tend not to discuss about it. I am sure you can find forums to discuss your ideas such as this one. What people tend to do is to judge how things are going for them, what the government is doing and what is likely the path forward.

I am not sure why would you think western people are apolitical, or less political then other regions? But if you try to inject pseudo science on scientific forums (not sure what you are referring to), or use them as your personal space for political agitation. I wouldn't be surprised that they are banning those subjects. That doesn't mean those people are apolitical, they just want to focus on the problem solving, not fighting. So it's just not the correct forum for it. It sounds more like "Sir, This is a Wendy's" -situation-.

And saying "Western democracies are mostly not democracies" is also pretty rich coming from someone living under a literal dictatorship. So you need to back that up with something.

I am certain it must be hard to believe things would be different in anywhere else, when you have lived under literal dictatorship your whole life. And saying that there's an evil elite making westerns stupid is just weird. If some underpaid tv script writers are able to keep your eyes shut, and reprogram your brain, it might not be their fault. Anyone saying it's a part of big plan makes me think they haven't ever planned anything bigger then a shopping list.

Bitcointalk has a sections for other then crypto talk, unlike some forums, and these sections are popular because of free speech. And let's not forget that russian cryptotalk forum exists, where people get paid for talking cryptocurrencies, and funny enough, mention of the war can get you banned. That's literally written in their rules.

I don't think people from the United States are truly apolitical. Otherwise, it would not make much sense there are so many politicsl channels and media which are obviously profitable for their respective networks. I believe what happens, is thst the importance of the United States polítics is so big in these lastest years that people from all around the planet is paying more attention to it and reading the news ahead the presidential election we are going to witness in 10 months.

Though, I also must say there have been people who have decided not to get involved and care anymore about politics, for the sake of their mental health and their own integrity, specially in the United States. I have personally talked to one of them and it is a decision I can perfectly understand and respect.